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Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22

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Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 

Post#1 » by Parliament10 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:23 pm

Marcus Smart
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https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/07/20/boston-celtics-smart-long-term-answer/
Marcus Smart has been the best playmaker on Boston these past two seasons and he’s only improving. Smart just averaged a career high 5.7 assists-per-game, with just 2 turnovers-per-game. This in fact is the 39th best assist-to-turnover ratio in the NBA, ahead of elite playmakers such as Nikola Jokic, James Harden, Ben Simmons and Damian Lillard.

The Celtics have always been a better team when Smart is passing and not overstepping his role. He should know that his best utilization is as a creator for others, with his great court vision and pass-timing.

By no surprise, the Celtics had a 10-2 record when Smart recorded at least eight assists in the 2020-21 season. Over the last two seasons, the Cs have a staggering 16-2 record when Smart has more assists than field goal attempts. If that isn’t a sign of what could be, what is?

According to NBA tracking statistics, Smart created the best shots for the rest of the Celtics. On passes from Smart, the Boston Celtics shot 49.1% from the field, the best of any rotation player by nearly 4%. On three-point attempts from Smart passes, the Cs shot 44.1%, which is also the best of any rotation player.




Payton Pritchard
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https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-draft-day-memories-celtics-payton-pritchard-reflects-on-his-journey-toward-living-his-dream/
Boston Celtics rookie guard Payton Pritchard played himself into a significant role in his first year in the league. He appeared in 66 games during the 2020-21 regular season, while averaging 7.7 points, 2.4 rebounds and two assists in 19 minutes a game. He also averaged over 13 minutes in all five of Boston's playoff games in the first round against the Brooklyn Nets. Although he missed the All-Rookie team this season, that says more about the depth of talent in the 2020 draft class, and Pritchard still received 20 votes....

Pritchard was thrown immediately into the fire in a sense, as Boston's All-Star point guard Kemba Walker was sidelined to start the season. In his eighth game of the season, Pritchard recorded his first 20-point game when he totaled 23 points, on top of eight assists and two boards. That early-season success earned him a regular spot in the rotation, and even got to start a few games when Boston needed him.

But while Pritchard looked like a seasoned veteran from the start of the season, he was still awestruck by playing against some of his childhood idols.

"Matching up with a lot of players that I looked up to like Chris Paul, Kyle Lowry -- guys you can just say something to real quick and learn something new -- it's just crazy that you go from looking up to them your whole life then you're out there playing against them," Pritchard said.




Yam Madar
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https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/07/10/boston-celtics-know-yam-madar/
Madar was selected 47th overall by the Celtics in 2020. He spent last year playing overseas in the Israeli Basketball Premier League.

The 20-year-old appeared in 30 games with Hapoel Tel Aviv, playing 33.2 minutes per game. He averaged 17.1 points, three rebounds, 5.2 assists, and 1.3 steals while shooting 46.9% from the field and 40.9% from deep.

Many draft experts loved his upside during the draft last year, and that love is now resurfacing. With Boston’s expected offseason changes, he could earn a spot on the roster.

He recently announced that he would be playing for the Boston Celtics’ Summer League team in Las Vegas this summer. Madar is currently in...Boston to begin workouts.

His potential, combined with Boston’s lack of depth at the guard position, could lead to Madar getting a shot next year. He’s received super high praise from everyone that talks about him.




Carsen Edwards
Image

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/7/1/22552927/celticsblog-exit-interview-carsen-edwards-trying-to-find-his-fit-celtics-boston-nba
As a second round pick in the 2019 NBA Draft, Carsen Edwards made some big moves to make the Boston Celtics roster in his first year. He was an explosive scorer that could get his own shot out of Purdue and proved his NCAA Tournament performance wasn’t a fluke by lighting up the Summer League. The Celtics had high hopes that he could be an off the bench scorer who would round out their rotation. In the first year, there was some growing pains, but it all set him up what was supposed to be a better sophomore year in the league. Unfortunately, Edwards was not really able to make that jump up in his development.

The 2020-2021 season from Carsen Edwards was up-and-down. The undersized shooting guard had stretches where he was a great scoring threat on a second unit, and then he showed at times he was not quite sure what was going on around him on the floor. This season he averaged 4 points, 0.5 assets, and 0.8 rebounds per game while shooting 42.3% from the field and a measly 28.6% from three. There was no sense of progression in his offensive game for this past season. The only major statistic that improved from his rookie season was his field goal percentage, but it all came on less minutes per game compared to the season before....

Heading into his third year, it will be do or die for Carsen Edwards. He will have to show that he can be an integral part of this rotation. Edwards has used all of his leeway on the roster and now is the time to show what he can bring to the bench unit. If not, he may just need a new start either to be traded or waived down the road to open up a roster spot.




Tremont Waters (RFA)
Image

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-tremont-waters-looking-move-celtics?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs
The Tremont Waters era in Boston may soon be coming to an end.

Jared Weiss of The Athletic reported Monday the Celtics guard has been working out away from the team in Connecticut and is "looking for more of an opportunity to break into a rotation elsewhere in the NBA this upcoming season." Waters is a restricted free agent and has one season of eligibility left as a two-way player.

Over his first two seasons in Boston, Waters has averaged 9.6 minutes per game in 37 games. The 2019 second-round draft pick averaged 3.8 points and 2.4 assists in 26 games last season.

The Celtics' backcourt depth already is looking thin following the departure of Kemba Walker. If Waters opts to sign elsewhere, that will leave Marcus Smart, Payton Pritchard, Romeo Langford, Carsen Edwards and Aaron Nesmith as the remaining guards on the roster.




What could the Boston Celtics be looking for in a new potential point guard after Kemba Walker trade?

Image

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/06/what-could-the-boston-celtics-be-looking-for-in-a-new-potential-point-guard-after-kemba-walker-trade.html
That leaves perhaps the biggest question on the roster: Point guard. The C’s will likely upgrade the spot this offseason with someone who fits better alongside Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. Even at Walker’s peak form early in his Boston tenure, his fit alongside the young stars was always a little awkward.

The two point guards on the current roster are Marcus Smart and Payton Pritchard. The Celtics could roll with Smart with his playmaking ability after averaging a career-high 5.7 assists per game. But having him as another option as a ballhander fits his role better instead of as a full-time point guard....

There’s no exact need to get a shoot-first or scoring point guard by any means. That’s why Walker’s fit was less than ideal: he’s a volume scorer but efficiency isn’t necessarily his best strength. Walker certainly brought the talent level of the roster up, but fit is partly why the C’s never seemed to play up to the sum of their parts....

The bottom line for the Celtics this offseason and beyond is making life easier for Tatum and Brown, which president Brad Stevens pointed out. A point guard determines a bulk of those responsibilities, setting up his teammates and running the offense.




Dennis Schröder
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https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/pressrelease/celtics-sign-dennis-schroder
August 13, 2021

BOSTON, MA – The Boston Celtics have signed eight-year NBA veteran Dennis Schröder, the team announced today. Per team policy, terms of the deal were not disclosed.

“We are really excited to welcome Dennis and his family to Boston,” said Celtics President of Basketball Operations Brad Stevens. “Dennis is a high-level player and competitor, who has consistently impacted winning with his play on both ends of the court.” Schröder, 27, has averaged 14.3 points (43.6% FG, 33.7% 3-PT, 83.1% FT), 2.9 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 0.8 steals, and 26.2 minutes in 557 career games (238 starts) over eight NBA seasons with Atlanta, Oklahoma City, and the Los Angeles Lakers. The veteran guard has averaged at least 15.0 points in five straight seasons from 2016-17 through 2020-21, including a career-best 19.4 points on 43.6% shooting with the Hawks in 2017-18.

Schröder joins Boston after averaging 15.4 points (43.7% FG, 33.5% 3-PT, 84.8% FT), and 5.8 assists in 61 games (all starts) with the Lakers in 2020-21, marking the third time in his career he’s produced at least 15.0 points and 5.0 assists. The Braunschweig, Germany native reached the 20-point mark 16 times last season, including a season-high 28 points (11-20 FG) and nine assists at Sacramento on March 3. His 1.1 steals per game represents a new career high.
"It's not about me, it's about the Team."
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#2 » by ParticleMan » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:40 pm

I bet Ume comes in and tells Marcus this is the year you make that PG spot your own, your job is to make everyone around you better and defend like you did a couple of years ago. If Marcus takes on that challenge he is a very good starting PG. The only thing holding him back will be his own ego and maturity.

Pritchard is only going to get better. He is a fantastic shooter but he can raise his percentage a couple of ticks even higher if he has a bit more patience to work for his shot. I also love his vision and his ability to penetrate and draw the defense. He is never going to be a guy who breaks ankles but he is always in motion. The question is can he avoid being the weak link on D.

Madar looks pretty good in the highlight vids no surprise but I'll be curious to see how he matches up against the strength and athleticism of NBA athletes. He looks like he has NBA level skills, and decent enough athleticism, maybe better than PP. Helps that he's 6-3 and long. Jury's out but I think this guy would easily be a 1st round pick this year.

Bottom line our PG rotation has a lot of potential but a lot of question marks. Unless an amazing trade comes along, I'd rather just give this group a chance under Udoka's system. I don't think it's critical that we upgrade this spot until we have a better idea what we already have.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#3 » by Parliament10 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:00 pm

Hal14 wrote:
theman wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:I wouldn't be upset to roll with Smart, Pritchard, Madar. If one of the latter somehow step up in a big way, Smart can play the 2 as well.

I'd give that rotation a shot under Udoka before deciding what to do. Lots of potential there, yes even Smart if Udoka can rein him in.


I am not sure I want to trust point guard duties to Smart, a second year play and a rookie from over seas. I wouldn't mind seeing them bring in a vet like DJ Augustin just to have some steadying force back there.

1) Madar is a rookie and Pritchard is a 2nd year player. But Madar is not your typical rookie - he played 3 years professionally overseas. Pritchard is not your typical 2nd year player - he played more games than anyone on our team last year and will be 24 next year which is older than most 2nd yr players

2) The Spurs did just fine with the PG combination of Tony parker (rookie), Antonio Daniels young guy who was unproven but had potential) and Terry Porter (old veteran)..

3) I think it depends what the C's think about how well madar and Pritchard could potentially be. Yeah Madar is a rookie but rookie PG's are sometimes really good - look at Lamelo Ball who was Rookie of the year. Pritchard is a 2nd year player but look at how. good some 2nd year PGs lately have been when you look at guys like Doncic and Trae Young. Not saying Pritchard or Madar will be as good as these guys, but if the team thinks that 1 (or both) of them can be really good solid players this season, then that probably influences the team's decision on whether they add another PG via trade or free agency and if so, what type of PG they choose to add. How well Pritchard and Madar look in summer league will give us a better idea, but I'm sure the C's aren't waiting until then - they're probably exploring different options in the meantime..

I think that we may need a Veteran, as a Starter.
Someone who can patch up the PG hole, for a year or two.
"It's not about me, it's about the Team."
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#4 » by Hal14 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:07 pm

Parliament10 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
theman wrote:
I am not sure I want to trust point guard duties to Smart, a second year play and a rookie from over seas. I wouldn't mind seeing them bring in a vet like DJ Augustin just to have some steadying force back there.

1) Madar is a rookie and Pritchard is a 2nd year player. But Madar is not your typical rookie - he played 3 years professionally overseas. Pritchard is not your typical 2nd year player - he played more games than anyone on our team last year and will be 24 next year which is older than most 2nd yr players

2) The Spurs did just fine with the PG combination of Tony parker (rookie), Antonio Daniels young guy who was unproven but had potential) and Terry Porter (old veteran)..

3) I think it depends what the C's think about how well madar and Pritchard could potentially be. Yeah Madar is a rookie but rookie PG's are sometimes really good - look at Lamelo Ball who was Rookie of the year. Pritchard is a 2nd year player but look at how. good some 2nd year PGs lately have been when you look at guys like Doncic and Trae Young. Not saying Pritchard or Madar will be as good as these guys, but if the team thinks that 1 (or both) of them can be really good solid players this season, then that probably influences the team's decision on whether they add another PG via trade or free agency and if so, what type of PG they choose to add. How well Pritchard and Madar look in summer league will give us a better idea, but I'm sure the C's aren't waiting until then - they're probably exploring different options in the meantime..

I think that we may need a Veteran, as a Starter.
Someone who can patch up the PG hole, for a year or two.

Perhaps you're right but:

a) who is the veteran we bring in for a year or 2 who starts at PG? Rubio? Lowry? Conley? Brogdon? Lonzo? All of them are probably too expensive. A cheaper option would probably not be a guy capable of starting, so it's kind of a catch 22

b) Is Madar and/or Pritchard both really step and look good during summer league/training camp, then what? If we bring in a veteran starting PG + Smart + Pritchard + Madar and all of them are looking good, then what? Perhaps just slide Smart over to the 2 where he has played most of his career anyways - but if Smart is playing all of his mins at the 2, is there enough mins to go around for Tatum/brown/Fournier/Nesmith/Langford? Do we even resign Langford? So many things for Stevens and staff to consider..
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#5 » by Parliament10 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:39 pm

sam_I_am wrote:
ICeeYou wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Patty and Smart would be a bad combo as a starting backcourt, and I don't see either Patty or Pritchard designated as 3rd string. That would just be bad roster management. Madar as 3rd string, however, could be perfect if he really does wow them this summer, which I am of course somewhat betting on here.

A buyout, if they decide they want Yam over here this season, would be chump change for the C's--particularly since it doesn't impact their cap or direct payroll at all. You could be right and he could still be a year away. I'm just saying I think they'll decide he's ready to be on the deep bench over here this season instead.


Again, I don’t think Pritchard has exactly earned a guaranteed spot in the rotation. Forcing him to compete with Smart and Mills is a good problem.

I don’t have any real issue with a Mills-Smart backcourt if they are moving on from Fournier, though I’d prefer to have more size. So that would leave the door open for Pritchard as the backup PG.



Mills strength is playing without the ball and making shots. He would pair very well next to JB in back court and Tatum at SF.

I like Patty Mills. He's a Free Agent. Age 32. He could fill the void for a couple of years.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#6 » by playa-hater » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:50 am

Parliament10 wrote:Marcus Smart
Image

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/07/20/boston-celtics-smart-long-term-answer/
Marcus Smart has been the best playmaker on Boston these past two seasons and he’s only improving. Smart just averaged a career high 5.7 assists-per-game, with just 2 turnovers-per-game. This in fact is the 39th best assist-to-turnover ratio in the NBA, ahead of elite playmakers such as Nikola Jokic, James Harden, Ben Simmons and Damian Lillard.

The Celtics have always been a better team when Smart is passing and not overstepping his role. He should know that his best utilization is as a creator for others, with his great court vision and pass-timing.

By no surprise, the Celtics had a 10-2 record when Smart recorded at least eight assists in the 2020-21 season. Over the last two seasons, the Cs have a staggering 16-2 record when Smart has more assists than field goal attempts. If that isn’t a sign of what could be, what is?

According to NBA tracking statistics, Smart created the best shots for the rest of the Celtics. On passes from Smart, the Boston Celtics shot 49.1% from the field, the best of any rotation player by nearly 4%. On three-point attempts from Smart passes, the Cs shot 44.1%, which is also the best of any rotation player.




Payton Pritchard
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https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-draft-day-memories-celtics-payton-pritchard-reflects-on-his-journey-toward-living-his-dream/
Boston Celtics rookie guard Payton Pritchard played himself into a significant role in his first year in the league. He appeared in 66 games during the 2020-21 regular season, while averaging 7.7 points, 2.4 rebounds and two assists in 19 minutes a game. He also averaged over 13 minutes in all five of Boston's playoff games in the first round against the Brooklyn Nets. Although he missed the All-Rookie team this season, that says more about the depth of talent in the 2020 draft class, and Pritchard still received 20 votes....

Pritchard was thrown immediately into the fire in a sense, as Boston's All-Star point guard Kemba Walker was sidelined to start the season. In his eighth game of the season, Pritchard recorded his first 20-point game when he totaled 23 points, on top of eight assists and two boards. That early-season success earned him a regular spot in the rotation, and even got to start a few games when Boston needed him.

But while Pritchard looked like a seasoned veteran from the start of the season, he was still awestruck by playing against some of his childhood idols.

"Matching up with a lot of players that I looked up to like Chris Paul, Kyle Lowry -- guys you can just say something to real quick and learn something new -- it's just crazy that you go from looking up to them your whole life then you're out there playing against them," Pritchard said.




Yam Madar
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https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/07/10/boston-celtics-know-yam-madar/
Madar was selected 47th overall by the Celtics in 2020. He spent last year playing overseas in the Israeli Basketball Premier League.

The 20-year-old appeared in 30 games with Hapoel Tel Aviv, playing 33.2 minutes per game. He averaged 17.1 points, three rebounds, 5.2 assists, and 1.3 steals while shooting 46.9% from the field and 40.9% from deep.

Many draft experts loved his upside during the draft last year, and that love is now resurfacing. With Boston’s expected offseason changes, he could earn a spot on the roster.

He recently announced that he would be playing for the Boston Celtics’ Summer League team in Las Vegas this summer. Madar is currently in...Boston to begin workouts.

His potential, combined with Boston’s lack of depth at the guard position, could lead to Madar getting a shot next year. He’s received super high praise from everyone that talks about him.




Carsen Edwards
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https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/7/1/22552927/celticsblog-exit-interview-carsen-edwards-trying-to-find-his-fit-celtics-boston-nba
As a second round pick in the 2019 NBA Draft, Carsen Edwards made some big moves to make the Boston Celtics roster in his first year. He was an explosive scorer that could get his own shot out of Purdue and proved his NCAA Tournament performance wasn’t a fluke by lighting up the Summer League. The Celtics had high hopes that he could be an off the bench scorer who would round out their rotation. In the first year, there was some growing pains, but it all set him up what was supposed to be a better sophomore year in the league. Unfortunately, Edwards was not really able to make that jump up in his development.

The 2020-2021 season from Carsen Edwards was up-and-down. The undersized shooting guard had stretches where he was a great scoring threat on a second unit, and then he showed at times he was not quite sure what was going on around him on the floor. This season he averaged 4 points, 0.5 assets, and 0.8 rebounds per game while shooting 42.3% from the field and a measly 28.6% from three. There was no sense of progression in his offensive game for this past season. The only major statistic that improved from his rookie season was his field goal percentage, but it all came on less minutes per game compared to the season before....

Heading into his third year, it will be do or die for Carsen Edwards. He will have to show that he can be an integral part of this rotation. Edwards has used all of his leeway on the roster and now is the time to show what he can bring to the bench unit. If not, he may just need a new start either to be traded or waived down the road to open up a roster spot.




Tremont Waters (RFA)
Image

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-tremont-waters-looking-move-celtics?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs
The Tremont Waters era in Boston may soon be coming to an end.

Jared Weiss of The Athletic reported Monday the Celtics guard has been working out away from the team in Connecticut and is "looking for more of an opportunity to break into a rotation elsewhere in the NBA this upcoming season." Waters is a restricted free agent and has one season of eligibility left as a two-way player.

Over his first two seasons in Boston, Waters has averaged 9.6 minutes per game in 37 games. The 2019 second-round draft pick averaged 3.8 points and 2.4 assists in 26 games last season.

The Celtics' backcourt depth already is looking thin following the departure of Kemba Walker. If Waters opts to sign elsewhere, that will leave Marcus Smart, Payton Pritchard, Romeo Langford, Carsen Edwards and Aaron Nesmith as the remaining guards on the roster.




What could the Boston Celtics be looking for in a new potential point guard after Kemba Walker trade?

Image

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/06/what-could-the-boston-celtics-be-looking-for-in-a-new-potential-point-guard-after-kemba-walker-trade.html
That leaves perhaps the biggest question on the roster: Point guard. The C’s will likely upgrade the spot this offseason with someone who fits better alongside Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. Even at Walker’s peak form early in his Boston tenure, his fit alongside the young stars was always a little awkward.

The two point guards on the current roster are Marcus Smart and Payton Pritchard. The Celtics could roll with Smart with his playmaking ability after averaging a career-high 5.7 assists per game. But having him as another option as a ballhander fits his role better instead of as a full-time point guard....

There’s no exact need to get a shoot-first or scoring point guard by any means. That’s why Walker’s fit was less than ideal: he’s a volume scorer but efficiency isn’t necessarily his best strength. Walker certainly brought the talent level of the roster up, but fit is partly why the C’s never seemed to play up to the sum of their parts....

The bottom line for the Celtics this offseason and beyond is making life easier for Tatum and Brown, which president Brad Stevens pointed out. A point guard determines a bulk of those responsibilities, setting up his teammates and running the offense.


I was going to one up this until I scrolled down and saw Edwards and Tre Waters :o :-?

but I think Smart can hold the fort with PP as a backup and JT handling the rock many times as well.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#7 » by playa-hater » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:53 am

ParticleMan wrote:I bet Ume comes in and tells Marcus this is the year you make that PG spot your own, your job is to make everyone around you better and defend like you did a couple of years ago. If Marcus takes on that challenge he is a very good starting PG. The only thing holding him back will be his own ego and maturity.

Pritchard is only going to get better. He is a fantastic shooter but he can raise his percentage a couple of ticks even higher if he has a bit more patience to work for his shot. I also love his vision and his ability to penetrate and draw the defense. He is never going to be a guy who breaks ankles but he is always in motion. The question is can he avoid being the weak link on D.

Madar looks pretty good in the highlight vids no surprise but I'll be curious to see how he matches up against the strength and athleticism of NBA athletes. He looks like he has NBA level skills, and decent enough athleticism, maybe better than PP. Helps that he's 6-3 and long. Jury's out but I think this guy would easily be a 1st round pick this year.

Bottom line our PG rotation has a lot of potential but a lot of question marks. Unless an amazing trade comes along, I'd rather just give this group a chance under Udoka's system. I don't think it's critical that we upgrade this spot until we have a better idea what we already have.


def agree on Smart and PP's comments
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#8 » by 31to6 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:08 am

Keep it simple and start Smart. At last he has a role that fits!

Get Rob his oops, and get the ball to JB, JT. Let Horf handle at the top of the key and space to the corners. Take a few shots to keep the defense honest -- I don't know his %s but I generally like it when Marcus posts up or drives into one of his tough leaner/runners.

For bonus points, be the captain/coach on the floor -- get guys on the same page, organize all the mini-huddles, and make sure Jayson's hair looks okay.

Most importantly: play defense. Then we can resign him for a billion dollars and I won't blink an eye.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#9 » by Djh7475 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:09 am

I think we need to get some depth with Smart’s injury history, but I’d like to give him a shot at the starting PG. I really like the 4 man group of Smart/Fournier (if we can keep him), Jaylen, and Tatum with either Horford or Rob. Pritchard and Yam are interesting, but i don’t want to bank on a rookie and sophomore being our only safety nets. I’d try to resign Fournier and use whatever exception we had on depth at the guard/wing spot.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#10 » by Parliament10 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:51 am

Hal14 wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:1) Madar is a rookie and Pritchard is a 2nd year player. But Madar is not your typical rookie - he played 3 years professionally overseas. Pritchard is not your typical 2nd year player - he played more games than anyone on our team last year and will be 24 next year which is older than most 2nd yr players

2) The Spurs did just fine with the PG combination of Tony parker (rookie), Antonio Daniels young guy who was unproven but had potential) and Terry Porter (old veteran)..

3) I think it depends what the C's think about how well madar and Pritchard could potentially be. Yeah Madar is a rookie but rookie PG's are sometimes really good - look at Lamelo Ball who was Rookie of the year. Pritchard is a 2nd year player but look at how. good some 2nd year PGs lately have been when you look at guys like Doncic and Trae Young. Not saying Pritchard or Madar will be as good as these guys, but if the team thinks that 1 (or both) of them can be really good solid players this season, then that probably influences the team's decision on whether they add another PG via trade or free agency and if so, what type of PG they choose to add. How well Pritchard and Madar look in summer league will give us a better idea, but I'm sure the C's aren't waiting until then - they're probably exploring different options in the meantime..

I think that we may need a Veteran, as a Starter.
Someone who can patch up the PG hole, for a year or two.

Perhaps you're right but:

a) who is the veteran we bring in for a year or 2 who starts at PG? Rubio? Lowry? Conley? Brogdon? Lonzo? All of them are probably too expensive. A cheaper option would probably not be a guy capable of starting, so it's kind of a catch 22

b) Is Madar and/or Pritchard both really step and look good during summer league/training camp, then what? If we bring in a veteran starting PG + Smart + Pritchard + Madar and all of them are looking good, then what? Perhaps just slide Smart over to the 2 where he has played most of his career anyways - but if Smart is playing all of his mins at the 2, is there enough mins to go around for Tatum/brown/Fournier/Nesmith/Langford? Do we even resign Langford? So many things for Stevens and staff to consider..

A) I like Satoransky, actually.

Image

B) I'd rather get a PG-filler, than take the chance on just the 3, Smart + Pritchard + Madar.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#11 » by BostonCouchGM » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:56 am

no. We have Pritchard. Arguably the 2nd best combination of BBIQ, offense and defense on the team behind only Tatum. I think he can have a Lowry type career if given the chance and even be the #2 we sorely need. Smart is best as the 6th man. PG, with Pritchard, is set for the next 6-8 years.

Pritchard, starting and getting 32 mpg, I would expect 20-5-7 with 40% from three with above average defense. Essentially, a better VanVleet.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#12 » by captain green » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:26 am

Teague just got a ring let that sink in. Spending money on a non defensive score first guard isn't going to work. I say start smart pp yam and sign mcconnell type vet. No need to invest in a position you have assets at currently with upside. invest in a sg sf or pf if you need to spend the loot.
Pg: Smart, pp, yam, vet example mcconnell
Sg: fournier, Langford, 2way
Sf: brown, nesmith, vet example Trever ariza
Pf: tatum, horford, draft pick
C: timelord, Thompson, brown, 2way
You could work the the two ways and free agents at sg sf and pf depth but shoring up the pg with a back up vet not a expensive shoot first shorty over 30.
We always talk about there’s A-to-Z… really, there’s A-to-G or -E,’” Ainge told Celtics.com of a team’s typical offseason agenda. “This year, there’s definitely A-to-Z.” : danny ainge
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#13 » by cloverleaf » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:08 pm

playa-hater wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:Marcus Smart
Image

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/07/20/boston-celtics-smart-long-term-answer/
Marcus Smart has been the best playmaker on Boston these past two seasons and he’s only improving. Smart just averaged a career high 5.7 assists-per-game, with just 2 turnovers-per-game. This in fact is the 39th best assist-to-turnover ratio in the NBA, ahead of elite playmakers such as Nikola Jokic, James Harden, Ben Simmons and Damian Lillard.

The Celtics have always been a better team when Smart is passing and not overstepping his role. He should know that his best utilization is as a creator for others, with his great court vision and pass-timing.

By no surprise, the Celtics had a 10-2 record when Smart recorded at least eight assists in the 2020-21 season. Over the last two seasons, the Cs have a staggering 16-2 record when Smart has more assists than field goal attempts. If that isn’t a sign of what could be, what is?

According to NBA tracking statistics, Smart created the best shots for the rest of the Celtics. On passes from Smart, the Boston Celtics shot 49.1% from the field, the best of any rotation player by nearly 4%. On three-point attempts from Smart passes, the Cs shot 44.1%, which is also the best of any rotation player.




Payton Pritchard
Image

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-draft-day-memories-celtics-payton-pritchard-reflects-on-his-journey-toward-living-his-dream/
Boston Celtics rookie guard Payton Pritchard played himself into a significant role in his first year in the league. He appeared in 66 games during the 2020-21 regular season, while averaging 7.7 points, 2.4 rebounds and two assists in 19 minutes a game. He also averaged over 13 minutes in all five of Boston's playoff games in the first round against the Brooklyn Nets. Although he missed the All-Rookie team this season, that says more about the depth of talent in the 2020 draft class, and Pritchard still received 20 votes....

Pritchard was thrown immediately into the fire in a sense, as Boston's All-Star point guard Kemba Walker was sidelined to start the season. In his eighth game of the season, Pritchard recorded his first 20-point game when he totaled 23 points, on top of eight assists and two boards. That early-season success earned him a regular spot in the rotation, and even got to start a few games when Boston needed him.

But while Pritchard looked like a seasoned veteran from the start of the season, he was still awestruck by playing against some of his childhood idols.

"Matching up with a lot of players that I looked up to like Chris Paul, Kyle Lowry -- guys you can just say something to real quick and learn something new -- it's just crazy that you go from looking up to them your whole life then you're out there playing against them," Pritchard said.




Yam Madar
Image

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/07/10/boston-celtics-know-yam-madar/
Madar was selected 47th overall by the Celtics in 2020. He spent last year playing overseas in the Israeli Basketball Premier League.

The 20-year-old appeared in 30 games with Hapoel Tel Aviv, playing 33.2 minutes per game. He averaged 17.1 points, three rebounds, 5.2 assists, and 1.3 steals while shooting 46.9% from the field and 40.9% from deep.

Many draft experts loved his upside during the draft last year, and that love is now resurfacing. With Boston’s expected offseason changes, he could earn a spot on the roster.

He recently announced that he would be playing for the Boston Celtics’ Summer League team in Las Vegas this summer. Madar is currently in...Boston to begin workouts.

His potential, combined with Boston’s lack of depth at the guard position, could lead to Madar getting a shot next year. He’s received super high praise from everyone that talks about him.




Carsen Edwards
Image

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/7/1/22552927/celticsblog-exit-interview-carsen-edwards-trying-to-find-his-fit-celtics-boston-nba
As a second round pick in the 2019 NBA Draft, Carsen Edwards made some big moves to make the Boston Celtics roster in his first year. He was an explosive scorer that could get his own shot out of Purdue and proved his NCAA Tournament performance wasn’t a fluke by lighting up the Summer League. The Celtics had high hopes that he could be an off the bench scorer who would round out their rotation. In the first year, there was some growing pains, but it all set him up what was supposed to be a better sophomore year in the league. Unfortunately, Edwards was not really able to make that jump up in his development.

The 2020-2021 season from Carsen Edwards was up-and-down. The undersized shooting guard had stretches where he was a great scoring threat on a second unit, and then he showed at times he was not quite sure what was going on around him on the floor. This season he averaged 4 points, 0.5 assets, and 0.8 rebounds per game while shooting 42.3% from the field and a measly 28.6% from three. There was no sense of progression in his offensive game for this past season. The only major statistic that improved from his rookie season was his field goal percentage, but it all came on less minutes per game compared to the season before....

Heading into his third year, it will be do or die for Carsen Edwards. He will have to show that he can be an integral part of this rotation. Edwards has used all of his leeway on the roster and now is the time to show what he can bring to the bench unit. If not, he may just need a new start either to be traded or waived down the road to open up a roster spot.




Tremont Waters (RFA)
Image

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-tremont-waters-looking-move-celtics?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs
The Tremont Waters era in Boston may soon be coming to an end.

Jared Weiss of The Athletic reported Monday the Celtics guard has been working out away from the team in Connecticut and is "looking for more of an opportunity to break into a rotation elsewhere in the NBA this upcoming season." Waters is a restricted free agent and has one season of eligibility left as a two-way player.

Over his first two seasons in Boston, Waters has averaged 9.6 minutes per game in 37 games. The 2019 second-round draft pick averaged 3.8 points and 2.4 assists in 26 games last season.

The Celtics' backcourt depth already is looking thin following the departure of Kemba Walker. If Waters opts to sign elsewhere, that will leave Marcus Smart, Payton Pritchard, Romeo Langford, Carsen Edwards and Aaron Nesmith as the remaining guards on the roster.




What could the Boston Celtics be looking for in a new potential point guard after Kemba Walker trade?

Image

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/06/what-could-the-boston-celtics-be-looking-for-in-a-new-potential-point-guard-after-kemba-walker-trade.html
That leaves perhaps the biggest question on the roster: Point guard. The C’s will likely upgrade the spot this offseason with someone who fits better alongside Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. Even at Walker’s peak form early in his Boston tenure, his fit alongside the young stars was always a little awkward.

The two point guards on the current roster are Marcus Smart and Payton Pritchard. The Celtics could roll with Smart with his playmaking ability after averaging a career-high 5.7 assists per game. But having him as another option as a ballhander fits his role better instead of as a full-time point guard....

There’s no exact need to get a shoot-first or scoring point guard by any means. That’s why Walker’s fit was less than ideal: he’s a volume scorer but efficiency isn’t necessarily his best strength. Walker certainly brought the talent level of the roster up, but fit is partly why the C’s never seemed to play up to the sum of their parts....

The bottom line for the Celtics this offseason and beyond is making life easier for Tatum and Brown, which president Brad Stevens pointed out. A point guard determines a bulk of those responsibilities, setting up his teammates and running the offense.


I was going to one up this until I scrolled down and saw Edwards and Tre Waters :o :-?

but I think Smart can hold the fort with PP as a backup and JT handling the rock many times as well.


I'd rather see them use Smart, Thompson and a bit more to bring in a starting PG plus an upgrade to Grant, at least, at the 4.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#14 » by playa-hater » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:47 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:Marcus Smart
Image

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/07/20/boston-celtics-smart-long-term-answer/




Payton Pritchard
Image

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-draft-day-memories-celtics-payton-pritchard-reflects-on-his-journey-toward-living-his-dream/




Yam Madar
Image

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/07/10/boston-celtics-know-yam-madar/




Carsen Edwards
Image

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/7/1/22552927/celticsblog-exit-interview-carsen-edwards-trying-to-find-his-fit-celtics-boston-nba




Tremont Waters (RFA)
Image

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-tremont-waters-looking-move-celtics?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs




What could the Boston Celtics be looking for in a new potential point guard after Kemba Walker trade?

Image

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/06/what-could-the-boston-celtics-be-looking-for-in-a-new-potential-point-guard-after-kemba-walker-trade.html


I was going to one up this until I scrolled down and saw Edwards and Tre Waters :o :-?

but I think Smart can hold the fort with PP as a backup and JT handling the rock many times as well.


I'd rather see them use Smart, Thompson and a bit more to bring in a starting PG plus an upgrade to Grant, at least, at the 4.


trade Smart + TT for whatever and sign CP3. *if* he wanted a 2 year contract. Still like Lonzo.. don't now who else there is. M Brogdon??
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#15 » by cloverleaf » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:33 pm

I do wonder how well this offseason is being maximized for the young guys, with Stevens in his new role, his supporting staff mostly gone, and Ime focused on Tokyo...
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#16 » by moonie_mcgee » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:58 pm

As much as I appreciate Smarts defense, offense and grit, he's been our point for a long time already. Walker Irving and Rozier were all off the ball guards. Smart can push the ball has good vision and can pass but he's not quick and an up temp point. He's like DJ in a way and best used in the half court game. I'd like another vet point that'll offset his skills. The Aussie teams point would be great here. Plenty of minutes as it's a long season.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#17 » by moonie_mcgee » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:05 am

Brogdon would be great here too. We definitely need another as we have 2 young points and Smart. That won't be enough imo. And I'd rather plan now than get someone mid-season. I'm not as worried about development as most as I believe the young players primary role is to add depth, and the development will come in time naturally and through the entirety of each year.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#18 » by 24istheLAW » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:16 am

moonie_mcgee wrote:As much as I appreciate Smarts defense, offense and grit, he's been our point for a long time already. Walker Irving and Rozier were all off the ball guards. Smart can push the ball has good vision and can pass but he's not quick and an up temp point. He's like DJ in a way and best used in the half court game. I'd like another vet point that'll offset his skills. The Aussie teams point would be great here. Plenty of minutes as it's a long season.


Yep. Smart is the incumbent starter. And..

(1) The most unique strength Smart brings is switchability at the 1. We haven't gotten to take advantage of this to full effect with ball-heavy scorer PG types beside him.

(2) Meanwhile, the worst thing we can do with Smart is separate his minutes from the Jays. Playing with the starters and players who command shots keeps Marcus somewhat in his lane. If he's leading a bench unit, he'll have too much freedom to shoot.

The Celts need to be a better passing team. I just don't think that responsibility falls on one position. Horford will shoulder a bit of the load. Jayson and Jaylen need to be better. And whoever they add to that group needs to be a ball-mover, but not necessarily a true PG.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#19 » by moonie_mcgee » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:38 am

24istheLAW wrote:
moonie_mcgee wrote:As much as I appreciate Smarts defense, offense and grit, he's been our point for a long time already. Walker Irving and Rozier were all off the ball guards. Smart can push the ball has good vision and can pass but he's not quick and an up temp point. He's like DJ in a way and best used in the half court game. I'd like another vet point that'll offset his skills. The Aussie teams point would be great here. Plenty of minutes as it's a long season.


Yep. Smart is the incumbent starter. And..

(1) The most unique strength Smart brings is switchability at the 1. We haven't gotten to take advantage of this to full effect with ball-heavy scorer PG types beside him.

(2) Meanwhile, the worst thing we can do with Smart is separate his minutes from the Jays. Playing with the starters and players who command shots keeps Marcus somewhat in his lane. If he's leading a bench unit, he'll have too much freedom to shoot.

The Celts need to be a better passing team. I just don't think that responsibility falls on one position. Horford will shoulder a bit of the load. Jayson and Jaylen need to be better. And whoever they add to that group needs to be a ball-mover, but not necessarily a true PG.


Yes of course everyone needs to move the ball. When the ball is zipping around open shots are found. Also need to capitalize on transition scoring. JB is one of the best in the nba in transition but the team itself isn't. Celts need more assists and transition buckets for sure.
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Re: Boston Celtics: Point Guard Rotation, 2021-22 (Do we need a Starter?) 

Post#20 » by hugepatsfan » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:50 am

I think Smart is fine as a starting point guard. He brings unique defensive ability to handle switches at that spot. He is a good playmaker and despite a negative reputation his shooting is passable. Now, that doesn't mean you don't need the right complimentary pieces. You're probably going to want a stretch 5 to help the shooting balance, so you likely start Horford over Timelord. And then you probably want at least some ball handling ability out of whoever you roll with Brown/Tatum at the 2/3/4 spots.

On Pritchard, I think he's a solid backup. I don't see a super high ceiling though. For the right deal, I'd totally be willing to move him and then sign a guy like Patty Mills to replace him off the bench. In general, I feel backup PG is one of the easier spots to find suitable depth so unless they foresee some breakout coming from Pritchard, I'd be open to moving him for sure. But of course cheap depth is always welcome so that's not to say just give him away either.

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