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OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF

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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#101 » by Hal14 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:12 pm

rambo_ortega wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
rambo_ortega wrote:For me the biggest point is not the fact that we get a PF who will start or win us a championship, I just feel like this is a position of need for us if you look at our team composition. Having a legit PF, either to start or back up can make a difference in several match ups. For me, Tatum guarding bigger/stronger PF's down low will not be good for his offense.

But if he plays the 4, then he'll be guarded by guys who are for the most part much slower than him, which would help his offense.

After all, Tatum had the best season of his career last yr, playing mostly the 4.

Durant is one of the quicker 4's in the league, yet even he said he had a tough time guarding Tatum:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10004881-kevin-durant-praises-elite-jayson-tatum-it-was-an-honor-to-play-against-him


Sure, but I think having someone guard KD instead of Tatum in the playoffs would've made the difference for us. We lost the series right?

These recent playoffs, each year we lost to teams who played big or has a PF who can play 5

2021 Nets - KD/Green/Blake
2020 Heat - Bam
2019 Bucks -Mirotic/Lopez
2017/2018 Cavs - Love/TT

So for me, that PF is a solution that I can think of upon looking at our roster and our playoff history.

We didn't lose to the Nets because tatum had to guard KD. We lost to the nets because of injuries to 3 of our best players (Brown, Rob, Kemba) and because the nets had like 10x more talent than us.

We actually gave them a pretty tough series, given the circumstances outlined above.

Bam didn't play PF for Miami when we played them. He only played C. He's not that big for a C. He's an averaged sized center at best. And at the 4 they had Crowder and Iguodala, who are both undersized at the 4.. we didn't lose to Miami because of Tatum guarding their PF, we lost to Miami because a) our PnR defense was terrible b) Kemba and Hayward injuries c) didn't have home court advantage as higher seed because games were in the bubble

The only 4's in the league who are so big that it actually causes a mismatch for Tatum to guard them are Giannis and AD (and maybe Durant and Sabonis but I don't think the pacers will keep going with their double big lineup of sabonis/turner for much longer). That's it. Any other 4 and Tatum (and even Brown most of the time) can guard them just fine.

So should we go out and get a 4 and slide Tatum to the 3, just for 3 or 4 teams where it's a mismatch? Knowing that for the other 25 or 26 opponents, Tatum at the 4 works just fine..

IDK, we'll see..
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#102 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:17 pm

Hal14 wrote:
rambo_ortega wrote:
Hal14 wrote:But if he plays the 4, then he'll be guarded by guys who are for the most part much slower than him, which would help his offense.

After all, Tatum had the best season of his career last yr, playing mostly the 4.

Durant is one of the quicker 4's in the league, yet even he said he had a tough time guarding Tatum:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10004881-kevin-durant-praises-elite-jayson-tatum-it-was-an-honor-to-play-against-him


Sure, but I think having someone guard KD instead of Tatum in the playoffs would've made the difference for us. We lost the series right?

These recent playoffs, each year we lost to teams who played big or has a PF who can play 5

2021 Nets - KD/Green/Blake
2020 Heat - Bam
2019 Bucks -Mirotic/Lopez
2017/2018 Cavs - Love/TT

So for me, that PF is a solution that I can think of upon looking at our roster and our playoff history.

We didn't lose to the Nets because tatum had to guard KD. We lost to the nets because of injuries to 3 of our best players (Brown, Rob, Kemba) and because the nets had like 10x more talent than us.

We actually gave them a pretty tough series, given the circumstances outlined above.

Bam didn't play PF for Miami when we played them. He only played C. He's not that big for a C. He's an averaged sized center at best. And at the 4 they had Crowder and Iguodala, who are both undersized at the 4.. we didn't lose to Miami because of Tatum guarding their PF, we lost to Miami because a) our PnR defense was terrible b) Kemba and Hayward injuries c) didn't have home court advantage as higher seed because games were in the bubble

The only 4's in the league who are so big that it actually causes a mismatch for Tatum to guard them are Giannis and AD (and maybe Durant and Sabonis but I don't think the pacers will keep going with their double big lineup of sabonis/turner for much longer). That's it. Any other 4 and Tatum (and even Brown most of the time) can guard them just fine.

So should we go out and get a 4 and slide Tatum to the 3, just for 3 or 4 teams where it's a mismatch? Knowing that for the other 25 or 26 opponents, Tatum at the 4 works just fine..

IDK, we'll see..


Could not agree with this more. I find the whole premise of this argument to be unfounded. Playing Tatum at the big forward allows us to take advantage of our strongest area of depth and that's in the backcourt. Tatum at the big forward allows us to also play faster, something I think Ime wants to do and I think the Jay's want as well. It's not like Tatum is a slouch rebounding the ball. Better perimeter defense this year will lead to much better results. And on defense him and Brown are interchangeable defensively anyway. Everyone here knows Brown is at his best defensively when he's guarding bigger guys in the post rather than floating around on the perimeter where he tends to get his head turned and caught ball-watching. We really are fine. Sell Edwards to another team during camp and we're ready to go to start the season.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#103 » by Half-Full » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:13 pm

Checking the Raptors roster, they seem to be deep at PF. Siakam, Anunoby, Achiuwa, Watanabe, Birch, Dekker, and Boucher. Some may be more combo forwards, but still, they can't play them all, and perhaps we could entice them to part ways with Chris Boucher.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#104 » by Hal14 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:44 pm

Half-Full wrote:Checking the Raptors roster, they seem to be deep at PF. Siakam, Anunoby, Achiuwa, Watanabe, Birch, Dekker, and Boucher. Some may be more combo forwards, but still, they can't play them all, and perhaps we could entice them to part ways with Chris Boucher.

Perhaps. But Birch and Precious are much more of a 5, not sure if either can really play the 4.

OG and Barnes are better suited for the 3. I don't know much about Dekker and Watanabe. But Siakam and Boucher might actually be the only 2 PFs they have. And since Birch and Precious are decent but neither is very good, I figure they will probably go small with either Boucher or Siakam at the 5 a decent amount this season.

I'd be happy if we were able to pull off a deal for Boucher (depending on what we gave up) but I don't think toronto is really looking to move him.

I think at this point it seems like Brad is content going into camp with Grant and Parker as our backup PFs and we'll likely just start the season with them and see how it goes. If he was looking to add a PF, I would have thought there'd be talk about us grabbing Millsap but we're apparently not one of the 4 teams showing interest in him..

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263970/Paul-Millsap-Receiving-Interest-From-Nets-Warriors-Bulls-Clippers
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#105 » by GoGreen » Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:12 pm

Give me Juancho or give me death
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#106 » by captain green » Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:54 pm

Just get pf already what's taking so long.
We always talk about there’s A-to-Z… really, there’s A-to-G or -E,’” Ainge told Celtics.com of a team’s typical offseason agenda. “This year, there’s definitely A-to-Z.” : danny ainge
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#107 » by moonie_mcgee » Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:09 am

Half-Full wrote:Checking the Raptors roster, they seem to be deep at PF. Siakam, Anunoby, Achiuwa, Watanabe, Birch, Dekker, and Boucher. Some may be more combo forwards, but still, they can't play them all, and perhaps we could entice them to part ways with Chris Boucher.



I like Boucher too. He's a few pounds short of a rib roast but he's young, skilled, long and plays with effort. He'd make a nice rim protector on D and a perimeter shooter on O.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#108 » by Parliament10 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:26 am

captain green wrote:Just get pf already what's taking so long.

This. -- It really doesn't take this long, to find a Quality PF.
It's obviously Not a priority of Stevens.

In my mind, I can't see why this wouldn't have been one of our first moves.
Now, it looks like we're not even going to get a PF.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#109 » by ParticleMan » Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:54 am

Parliament10 wrote:
captain green wrote:Just get pf already what's taking so long.

This. -- It really doesn't take this long, to find a Quality PF.
It's obviously Not a priority of Stevens.

In my mind, I can't see why this wouldn't have been one of our first moves.
Now, it looks like we're not even going to get a PF.


Not sure why we need one if Tatum is going to play there for well over 30 minutes. Grant/Horford/Parker/Bruno can handle the rest.
You're not going to get a PF that is better than those options for the scraps we have to offer.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#110 » by Celts17Pride » Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:47 pm

Celtics best bet is to give Parker and G Williams legit shots at the backup PF position and then address the issue a few months into the season when some teams start off horribly. Rome wasn't built in a day.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#111 » by Hal14 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:59 pm

ParticleMan wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:
captain green wrote:Just get pf already what's taking so long.

This. -- It really doesn't take this long, to find a Quality PF.
It's obviously Not a priority of Stevens.

In my mind, I can't see why this wouldn't have been one of our first moves.
Now, it looks like we're not even going to get a PF.


Not sure why we need one if Tatum is going to play there for well over 30 minutes. Grant/Horford/Parker/Bruno can handle the rest.
You're not going to get a PF that is better than those options for the scraps we have to offer.

I'm not saying I agree with it 100% but the reason why people say we need a PF is because:

a) people think tatum is better suited to play the 3 and that we'd have a bigger lineup with him at the 4..and one of the reasons we've struggled last few years is having an undersized lineup. while teams like the 2020 lakers and 2021 bucks had big lineups and won titles

b) horford can't play the 4 anymore. the sixers double big lineup in 2019 of horford and embiid was a disaster

c) bruno can't play the 4, he's more of a 5

d) parker is the worst defender on the team and also can't shoot from 3

e) grant is too short and too slow
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#112 » by playa-hater » Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:14 pm

GoGreen wrote:Give me Juancho or give me death



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8-)
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#113 » by GoGreen » Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:35 pm

playa-hater wrote:
GoGreen wrote:Give me Juancho or give me death



Image

8-)


:lol:
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#114 » by The Comedian » Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:50 pm

Here’s our PF.

Read on Twitter
?s=20
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#115 » by playa-hater » Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:59 pm

The Comedian wrote:Here’s our PF.

Read on Twitter
?s=20


This has been said, But I need to say it again. If/when Tatum attacks "down hill" on a regular basis (draws fouls) he will be unstoppable. Double teams and shot selection (too many fadeaways) is the only thing that can stop him.

I bet he finishes top 3 MVP this year and wins one in the next 3 years.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#116 » by Fantaxp7 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:00 pm

The Comedian wrote:Here’s our PF.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Was just checking if this pic was posted.

Let's see what he ends up doing with those muscles. Maybe they'll start giving him those Giannis dip your shoulder while you drive non-calls :lol:
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#117 » by 31to6 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:59 pm

playa-hater wrote:
The Comedian wrote:Here’s our PF.

Read on Twitter
?s=20


This has been said, But I need to say it again. If/when Tatum attacks "down hill" on a regular basis (draws fouls) he will be unstoppable. Double teams and shot selection (too many fadeaways) is the only thing that can stop him.

I bet he finishes top 3 MVP this year and wins one in the next 3 years.


I've said JT needs to get into the MVP conversation -- meaning, I guess, top 7? Top 3 this year would be insanely good.
Giannis isn't likely to go anywhere.
LeBron's going to be 'due', again.
Jokic, Embiid, and Curry were the top three finishers last year.
But I like it.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#118 » by Bohemian » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:05 pm

The Comedian wrote:Here’s our PF.

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Hard worker, humble. Leads by example. Ultra talented. He is the next MVP, book it.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#119 » by bucknersrevenge » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:52 pm

The Comedian wrote:Here’s our PF.

Read on Twitter
?s=20


/thread as far as I'm concerned.

And Udoka is gonna have him bodying up guys in the post this season for sure. 8fts a game MINIMUM is now booked.

The rest of the league is about to enter the oppression session.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#120 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:05 pm

Hal14 wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:This. -- It really doesn't take this long, to find a Quality PF.
It's obviously Not a priority of Stevens.

In my mind, I can't see why this wouldn't have been one of our first moves.
Now, it looks like we're not even going to get a PF.


Not sure why we need one if Tatum is going to play there for well over 30 minutes. Grant/Horford/Parker/Bruno can handle the rest.
You're not going to get a PF that is better than those options for the scraps we have to offer.

I'm not saying I agree with it 100% but the reason why people say we need a PF is because:

a) people think tatum is better suited to play the 3 and that we'd have a bigger lineup with him at the 4..and one of the reasons we've struggled last few years is having an undersized lineup. while teams like the 2020 lakers and 2021 bucks had big lineups and won titles

b) horford can't play the 4 anymore. the sixers double big lineup in 2019 of horford and embiid was a disaster

c) bruno can't play the 4, he's more of a 5

d) parker is the worst defender on the team and also can't shoot from 3

e) grant is too short and too slow


When Brad dropped his 2 big lineup and moved Tatum back to PF, Tatum went on to play his best ball of the season. People can think Tatum is better suited as a 3 but that doesn't make it so.

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