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OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF

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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#81 » by Hal14 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:29 pm

thebirdman wrote:
rambo_ortega wrote:BOS-CLE

Bos Get: Larry Nance Jr.

Schroder/Jaylen/JT/Nance/Timelord
PP/Smart/JRich/Nesmith/Horford

Cle Get: Romęo Langford/Dunn/Grant

They clear up PT for Mobley and get help in the wings

Garland/Sexton/Okoro/Mobley/Allen
Rubio/Langford/Osman/Grant/Love


Unfortunately Cavs can get much better players for Nance, IMO. But this trade would be perfect for the Celtics. I would throw in a couple of seconds as well...

1) Nance also has 2 yrs left on his contract, which would go against the moves Brad has been making this offseason - only adding new players on expiring contracts so that we'll have lots of cap space available next offseason.

2) Does Nance really move the needle enough? Does adding him (and losing Grant, Dunn and Langford) make us a legit contender? If not, Brad would probably pass. Why trade 2 guys you drafted in the 1st round just 2 yrs ago for a player who will only make you a little bit better and won't put you over the top to be a legit contender? I know some people on here have already given up on Langford and Grant, but Langford is only 21 and Grant is only 22. They are not done developing. Grant's ceiling (once he's done developing) IS Larry Nance Jr. Grant literally is a worse version of Nance right now. Grant does have the potential if to be a Nance/Jae Crowder/PJ Tucker type. Langford has the potential to be a Tony Allen type. I assure you, Tucker/Crowder/Nance at age 22 and Allen at age 21 were nothing to write home about.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#82 » by thebirdman » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:04 pm

Hal14 wrote:
thebirdman wrote:
rambo_ortega wrote:BOS-CLE

Bos Get: Larry Nance Jr.

Schroder/Jaylen/JT/Nance/Timelord
PP/Smart/JRich/Nesmith/Horford

Cle Get: Romęo Langford/Dunn/Grant

They clear up PT for Mobley and get help in the wings

Garland/Sexton/Okoro/Mobley/Allen
Rubio/Langford/Osman/Grant/Love


Unfortunately Cavs can get much better players for Nance, IMO. But this trade would be perfect for the Celtics. I would throw in a couple of seconds as well...

1) Nance also has 2 yrs left on his contract, which would go against the moves Brad has been making this offseason - only adding new players on expiring contracts so that we'll have lots of cap space available next offseason.

2) Does Nance really move the needle enough? Does adding him (and losing Grant, Dunn and Langford) make us a legit contender? If not, Brad would probably pass. Why trade 2 guys you drafted in the 1st round just 2 yrs ago for a player who will only make you a little bit better and won't put you over the top to be a legit contender? I know some people on here have already given up on Langford and Grant, but Langford is only 21 and Grant is only 22. They are not done developing. Grant's ceiling (once he's done developing) IS Larry Nance Jr. Grant literally is a worse version of Nance right now. Grant does have the potential if to be a Nance/Jae Crowder/PJ Tucker type. Langford has the potential to be a Tony Allen type. I assure you, Tucker/Crowder/Nance at age 22 and Allen at age 21 were nothing to write home about.
Of course, Nance does not put us over the top but I think he has more value than Langford, Grant if you want to trade for a star or flip him....

The fact that he has 2 years left is not an issue anymore with Smart and Rob extentions, IMO. But I wouldn't mind going after Slow Mo either who is expiring.

IF Grant keeps working hard, he could have a PJ like impact, yes. But that will take years and I do not know if we can wait that long for a role player... Langford, I am not high on, just do not like his mentality. Hope I am wrong but maybe it's time to move on...



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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#83 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:13 pm

Hal14 wrote:the thing people need to remember when discussing adding a PF is the how big of a matchup nightmare Tatum is at the 4. Durant is one of the bigger 4's out there. at 6'10", 240 lbs. Durant is also very quick for his size. Yet Durant went on record saying how difficult it was for him to guard Tatum:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10004881-kevin-durant-praises-elite-jayson-tatum-it-was-an-honor-to-play-against-him

Considering Durant is one of the quicker 4's out there, Tatum will really make life miserable for the other 4's in the league who aren't as quick (or as big) as Durant.


This I think it maybe an overlooked point in this discussion. Given the depth we have in the backcourt now, it probably behooves us to play Tatum primarily at the 4 to facilitate all of the perimeter options we have now. Plus it's probably Tatum's best position. 2 years ago when he was All-NBA he played 90% of his minutes there. We're not gonna be doing a ton of double-big stuff this season unless it's matchup-based I would think. So let's just say if Tatum plays 30 of 34 minutes at the 4, that leaves 18 behind him to fill up. If we go big for small stretches with Horford at the 4, maybe that's 10 mpg when that even happens leaving really only 8 minutes to fill.

I know some of you aren't gonna like what I'm about to say next but Grant Williams is not done here. I understand if you're out on him but I would bet this kid is going to get another crack at it. He had a bad year last year, same as a lot of players. He was better his rookie year. But he's a lot like Pritchard. A high IQ, hoop junkie who you get better results from when you play him around better players. I think he will benefit tremendously from being around Al and seeing how he plays his role up close. Says he's been working on his shot this year. And after him you have Jabari (if he stays) and Bruno Fernando who I think made the team with his play.

Obviously, if we were to have an upgrade drop in our lap like Anderson, or Nance or whomever, great. Do what you need to do. But Grant is well-liked on this team, obviously, already well-respected around the league having been elected as an NBPA VP at just 22. We may already have our backup 4 right now. I say he gets first crack and then we check in at the deadline if it's not working out.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#84 » by Patsfan1081 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:15 am

Hal14 wrote:
thebirdman wrote:
rambo_ortega wrote:BOS-CLE

Bos Get: Larry Nance Jr.

Schroder/Jaylen/JT/Nance/Timelord
PP/Smart/JRich/Nesmith/Horford

Cle Get: Romęo Langford/Dunn/Grant

They clear up PT for Mobley and get help in the wings

Garland/Sexton/Okoro/Mobley/Allen
Rubio/Langford/Osman/Grant/Love


Unfortunately Cavs can get much better players for Nance, IMO. But this trade would be perfect for the Celtics. I would throw in a couple of seconds as well...

1) Nance also has 2 yrs left on his contract, which would go against the moves Brad has been making this offseason - only adding new players on expiring contracts so that we'll have lots of cap space available next offseason.

2) Does Nance really move the needle enough? Does adding him (and losing Grant, Dunn and Langford) make us a legit contender? If not, Brad would probably pass. Why trade 2 guys you drafted in the 1st round just 2 yrs ago for a player who will only make you a little bit better and won't put you over the top to be a legit contender? I know some people on here have already given up on Langford and Grant, but Langford is only 21 and Grant is only 22. They are not done developing. Grant's ceiling (once he's done developing) IS Larry Nance Jr. Grant literally is a worse version of Nance right now. Grant does have the potential if to be a Nance/Jae Crowder/PJ Tucker type. Langford has the potential to be a Tony Allen type. I assure you, Tucker/Crowder/Nance at age 22 and Allen at age 21 were nothing to write home about.


Def doesn’t seem like the plan anymore, actually Nance seems like the perfect player to acquire as they could use him to match salaries while being a expiring deal next summer.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#85 » by bucknersrevenge » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:17 am

Grant looks good here. Even a little svelte!

Read on Twitter
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#86 » by playa-hater » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:37 am

bucknersrevenge wrote:Grant looks good here. Even a little svelte!

Read on Twitter
?s=20


nice to know he is doing something constructive with his time since he didn't go to summer league :o :-? :nonono:
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#87 » by bucknersrevenge » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:18 am

playa-hater wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:Grant looks good here. Even a little svelte!

Read on Twitter
?s=20


nice to know he is doing something constructive with his time since he didn't go to summer league :o :-? :nonono:


Probably why they trusted him. They had enough players to get data on anyway.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#88 » by rambo_ortega » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:05 am

For me the biggest point is not the fact that we get a PF who will start or win us a championship, I just feel like this is a position of need for us if you look at our team composition. Having a legit PF, either to start or back up can make a difference in several match ups. For me, Tatum guarding bigger/stronger PF's down low will not be good for his offense.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#89 » by Hal14 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:10 pm

rambo_ortega wrote:For me the biggest point is not the fact that we get a PF who will start or win us a championship, I just feel like this is a position of need for us if you look at our team composition. Having a legit PF, either to start or back up can make a difference in several match ups. For me, Tatum guarding bigger/stronger PF's down low will not be good for his offense.

But if he plays the 4, then he'll be guarded by guys who are for the most part much slower than him, which would help his offense.

After all, Tatum had the best season of his career last yr, playing mostly the 4.

Durant is one of the quicker 4's in the league, yet even he said he had a tough time guarding Tatum:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10004881-kevin-durant-praises-elite-jayson-tatum-it-was-an-honor-to-play-against-him
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#90 » by ddb » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:32 pm

rambo_ortega wrote:I think this is the gapping hole of our roster at the moment. We need an athletic 4 who can go up against the likes of Giannis, KD, Siakam, AD. Someone that can also allow us to play small and fast, but effective coz this is also the best way to utilize our 2 Stars in their prime. Something that we haven't been able to do the past several years.

So who can we target and are available? Here are just some on my list:

John Collins - really wanted him but already off the market
Lauri Markannen - S&T
Thad Young - Trade
Larry Nance Jr. - Trade
Brandon Clarke - Trade (JJJr in his way)
Jerami Grant - Trade (might not be the best guy to pair with their young guys)
Kyle Kuzma - Trade (Wizards have Rui and Advija)
Harry Giles - FA
Hollis-Jefferson - FA

We can trade Jrich/Timelord/Langford/GrantWill

TRADE SCENARIOS

BOS-MEM

Bos Get: Clarke/Adams
Mem Get: Timelord/Jrich/Dunn

BOS-DET

Bos Get: Jerami Grant
Det Get: Timelord/Jrich/Langford

BOS-WAS

Bos Get: Kuzma
Was Get: Timelord/Jrich

BOS-SAS

Bos Get: Thad Young
Sas Get: Jrich/Fernando

BOS-CLE

Bos Get: Larry Nance Jr.
Cle Get: Romęo Langford/Dunn/Grant

What are your thoughts?


Celtics aren't moving Timelord this season. He's a poison pill contract after signing his extension. Also, doubtful they move Richardson and he's a big trade piece for them down the line.

PF isn't as important as it used to be in the modern NBA. However, I agree that The Celtics could use another physical wing player that can defend and knock down 3's. Think a Crowder type (Crowder not available). The other style "PF" is a Kyle Anderson type who is a good ball handler, can make an open shot, and is terrific passing the ball. That would work too.

If Brad goes for a player like that then it will be a smaller scale deal utilizing the TPE.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#91 » by Larry_Russell » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:36 pm

ddb wrote:
rambo_ortega wrote:I think this is the gapping hole of our roster at the moment. We need an athletic 4 who can go up against the likes of Giannis, KD, Siakam, AD. Someone that can also allow us to play small and fast, but effective coz this is also the best way to utilize our 2 Stars in their prime. Something that we haven't been able to do the past several years.

So who can we target and are available? Here are just some on my list:

John Collins - really wanted him but already off the market
Lauri Markannen - S&T
Thad Young - Trade
Larry Nance Jr. - Trade
Brandon Clarke - Trade (JJJr in his way)
Jerami Grant - Trade (might not be the best guy to pair with their young guys)
Kyle Kuzma - Trade (Wizards have Rui and Advija)
Harry Giles - FA
Hollis-Jefferson - FA

We can trade Jrich/Timelord/Langford/GrantWill

TRADE SCENARIOS

BOS-MEM

Bos Get: Clarke/Adams
Mem Get: Timelord/Jrich/Dunn

BOS-DET

Bos Get: Jerami Grant
Det Get: Timelord/Jrich/Langford

BOS-WAS

Bos Get: Kuzma
Was Get: Timelord/Jrich

BOS-SAS

Bos Get: Thad Young
Sas Get: Jrich/Fernando

BOS-CLE

Bos Get: Larry Nance Jr.
Cle Get: Romęo Langford/Dunn/Grant

What are your thoughts?


Celtics aren't moving Timelord this season. He's a poison pill contract after signing his extension. Also, doubtful they move Richardson and he's a big trade piece for them down the line.

PF isn't as important as it used to be in the modern NBA. However, I agree that The Celtics could use another physical wing player that can defend and knock down 3's. Think a Crowder type (Crowder not available). The other style "PF" is a Kyle Anderson type who is a good ball handler, can make an open shot, and is terrific passing the ball. That would work too.

If Brad goes for a player like that then it will be a smaller scale deal utilizing the TPE.



I thought that Winslow might have been a target.

But who in the NBA, at a small contract (7 or 8 million or less) can fill that role?
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#92 » by Bohemian » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:55 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:Grant looks good here. Even a little svelte!

Read on Twitter
?s=20


He is not playing much this year, so he better get used to other sports :lol:
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#93 » by Celts17Pride » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:16 pm

Personally think Kuzma or Bertans would be a nice fit as a backup PF for the Celtics as a scorer off the bench. Don't think the Celtics would do any deals with the Wizards until the whole Beal situation is resolved.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#94 » by ddb » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:24 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:Personally think Kuzma or Bertans would be a nice fit as a backup PF for the Celtics as a scorer off the bench. Don't think the Celtics would do any deals with the Wizards until the whole Beal situation is resolved.


I have a sneaking suspicion that the Fournier TPE is there specifically to take in Bertans, if and when the Celtics acquire Beal. Washington is 100% going to want to unload his contract at that point.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#95 » by ParticleMan » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:06 am

so Beal will be getting like 44m in his new max contract, plus we are paying 16m for Bertans for the next 2 years after this? that is effectively 60m a year to get Beal. half our cap for Beal. does that not worry you?

if that's the plan, you'd better be damn sure about Beal being the missing piece to a championship. damn sure.

personally, i'm not convinced about this at all.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#96 » by Larry_Russell » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:52 pm

ParticleMan wrote:so Beal will be getting like 44m in his new max contract, plus we are paying 16m for Bertans for the next 2 years after this? that is effectively 60m a year to get Beal. half our cap for Beal. does that not worry you?

if that's the plan, you'd better be damn sure about Beal being the missing piece to a championship. damn sure.

personally, i'm not convinced about this at all.



I think the real dark horse is Lavine.

Have a young, fast, athletic core.

Smart
Lavine
Brown
Tatum
Williams

Have 3 guys who can go off for 30 plus on any night, and all guys can share the ball and play-make. Lavine will come at a fraction of the cost too.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#97 » by Dannyboy36 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:46 pm

Larry_Russell wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:so Beal will be getting like 44m in his new max contract, plus we are paying 16m for Bertans for the next 2 years after this? that is effectively 60m a year to get Beal. half our cap for Beal. does that not worry you?

if that's the plan, you'd better be damn sure about Beal being the missing piece to a championship. damn sure.

personally, i'm not convinced about this at all.



I think the real dark horse is Lavine.

Have a young, fast, athletic core.

Smart
Lavine
Brown
Tatum
Williams

Have 3 guys who can go off for 30 plus on any night, and all guys can share the ball and play-make. Lavine will come at a fraction of the cost too.



I’m totally with ya on Lavine over Beal if I had a magic wand. I know there’s a viewpoint of guys doing too similar things but to me they all can shoot pass and dribble. They seem willing passers. That’s for the coach to figure out. I would be over the moon if we could get Lavine somehow.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#98 » by Larry_Russell » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:54 pm

Dannyboy36 wrote:
Larry_Russell wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:so Beal will be getting like 44m in his new max contract, plus we are paying 16m for Bertans for the next 2 years after this? that is effectively 60m a year to get Beal. half our cap for Beal. does that not worry you?

if that's the plan, you'd better be damn sure about Beal being the missing piece to a championship. damn sure.

personally, i'm not convinced about this at all.



I think the real dark horse is Lavine.

Have a young, fast, athletic core.

Smart
Lavine
Brown
Tatum
Williams

Have 3 guys who can go off for 30 plus on any night, and all guys can share the ball and play-make. Lavine will come at a fraction of the cost too.



I’m totally with ya on Lavine over Beal if I had a magic wand. I know there’s a viewpoint of guys doing too similar things but to me they all can shoot pass and dribble. They seem willing passers. That’s for the coach to figure out. I would be over the moon if we could get Lavine somehow.



IMO, Lavine is as good a shooter and arguably a better creator than Beal.
He is younger and bigger too.

And Lavine has always had to "be the man" to be able to join 2 other "main guys" could allow him to focus a little more on defense and distribution.
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#99 » by Hal14 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:26 pm

ParticleMan wrote:so Beal will be getting like 44m in his new max contract, plus we are paying 16m for Bertans for the next 2 years after this? that is effectively 60m a year to get Beal. half our cap for Beal. does that not worry you?

if that's the plan, you'd better be damn sure about Beal being the missing piece to a championship. damn sure.

personally, i'm not convinced about this at all.

Eh, i don't know. If we get Bertans, either:

a) He's a very solid role player for us, a good stretch 4 guy off the bench who can space the floor, hit shots. He's the kind of guy who if he gots hot shooting he could win you a game or 2 in the playoffs. In this scenario, he's a good valuable player for us - so we wouldn't really be looking at it like $60mil for Beal, instead we'd be looking at it like $44mil for Beal and $16mil for Bertans

Or...

b) Bertans turns out to be a bum. What's he's providing in value/production on the court is not coming anywhere close to his $16K salary. If that happens, we can trade him during the last yr of his contract to a team that will be cool with taking on his expiring contract. Or, if he's really bad and we don't want to wait till the last yr of his contract, then we can just buy him out.

I also think that $44mil for Beal might be a little high..i think it's closer to $42mil and also, perhaps Beal will be willing to take slightly less $ to come here. Since after all, he is coming here not because of the $ but because he wants a better shot at winning a ring and doing so with his close friend, Tatum. Beal has to know that if he takes slightly less $, that is more $ the team can spend on other parts of the roster which means we have a better shot at a title...which is the main reason he is coming here..
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Re: OUR BIGGEST NEED - PF 

Post#100 » by rambo_ortega » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:44 pm

Hal14 wrote:
rambo_ortega wrote:For me the biggest point is not the fact that we get a PF who will start or win us a championship, I just feel like this is a position of need for us if you look at our team composition. Having a legit PF, either to start or back up can make a difference in several match ups. For me, Tatum guarding bigger/stronger PF's down low will not be good for his offense.

But if he plays the 4, then he'll be guarded by guys who are for the most part much slower than him, which would help his offense.

After all, Tatum had the best season of his career last yr, playing mostly the 4.

Durant is one of the quicker 4's in the league, yet even he said he had a tough time guarding Tatum:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10004881-kevin-durant-praises-elite-jayson-tatum-it-was-an-honor-to-play-against-him


Sure, but I think having someone guard KD instead of Tatum in the playoffs would've made the difference for us. We lost the series right?

These recent playoffs, each year we lost to teams who played big or has a PF who can play 5

2021 Nets - KD/Green/Blake
2020 Heat - Bam
2019 Bucks -Mirotic/Lopez
2017/2018 Cavs - Love/TT

So for me, that PF is a solution that I can think of upon looking at our roster and our playoff history.
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