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Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8)

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Who smokes it tonight?

Tatum
54
71%
Dennis
2
3%
Smart
16
21%
Horford
1
1%
Grant
0
No votes
Richardson
0
No votes
Romeo
0
No votes
Kanter
0
No votes
Other (team)
3
4%
 
Total votes: 76

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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#81 » by Afam » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:51 am

Great win by the team . Tatum and Dennis the menace stepped it up big time . Big Al was solid as well . Solid win. Voted for team but could have gone with Tatum or Dennis.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#82 » by Afam » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:52 am

Win
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#83 » by Fierce1 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:36 am

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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#84 » by FlatearthZorro » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:36 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:Defense is more system and coach. Offense really is dictated by how well your top guys play and I just don't mean scoring.


I can't agree with that. We were a pretty decent team on offense and defense with Horfie and IT as our main guys supported by Jae and Avery.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#85 » by Shak_Celts » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:43 am

playa-hater wrote:
Shak_Celts wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
But just like last season.. Nesmith early on, played very inconsistently and shot poorly.. when he did get minutes, he shot well. Maybe in this game shooting didn't matter much.. LAL was horrid on defense, especially in the paint.. But when Boston does play tougher teams, the lack of shooting will stand out far more..

Not investing in Nesmith now, may still come back to haunt us down the Road.. especially with other teams trapping the shet out of Tatum..

Look at the schedule in Dec.. If these current players (Smart-Schro-J Rich) play-shoot-win well, then I won't/can't say anything.. But winning BIG in this Era without steady shooting is near impossible IMO..


my point is we are about 6-3 lately and all those guys have played well through it, who should they be playing over? it's not as simple as letting them play through it when there are barely minutes for romeo and jrich at times and both have been solid, jrich especially. so, you let nesmith and pritch play and play and HOPE they turn it around (while not being the defenders ime wants), then they don't, what do you say to the other guys who have been productive?

even if nee and pritch were hitting the few shots that are available like the guys in front of them have lately (smart is better even without good shooting), how much more could that help over what romeo and jrich are giving, because that's what they are doing (except they also defend)? those are the only guys who you could try and play them over because making a couple of shots a game isn't taking minutes from smart and schroo who do more than that. romeo and jrich are taking 7 shots combined per game, tell me, what more can nesmith and pritch be doing with so few shots? Smart is only taking 9 shots which is a SMALL amount for the minutes he plays. where are their shots coming from to let them get into a rhythm? let me know.


But this is just it.. it's not just How many shots they can get.. but in theory, with better shooters, you can get better spacing.. when it all comes down to it, the better teams, will definitely try to crowd and trap Tatum and JB. Especially in crunch time. So what oston will need is perhaps one or two more KEY 3 pointers made, to make teams hesitate when deciding to trap the Js.. If not, we may still see what we have seen too numerous times in the past. Not just this season, but years before. And that is Tatum passes it out (when trapped) shots not made, then he tries to do it all on himself.

There is no way, after a small sample size of just a few games, will I believe this current lineup of scrappy tough defenders, who may not shot well, Is the long term answer.

Let's go back to this conversation when better defenses, do as I predict and attempt to smother Tatum and his teammates DO NOT Hit shots.. That is the time to prove or dis-prove my theory of having a true knock down shooter and the benefits or Not of that.


People aren't going to think they are good shooters without proof. They will need shots to prove it. Where are they coming from? Which one of them are you calling a knockdown shooter? Pritch shot it very well last season, the whole season, but he also didn’t have to defend, our d was TRASH. So, not only will they have to find shots and prove they are shooters, they have to defend! The best shooters aren't defenders unless they are the top guys (not even then really). You cant expect ime to let them find their shots while also not being able to defend when the guys ahead are proving they can. Right now, ne nor pritch have proven to ime they can do anything positive in real games! You could see ime really thought pritch especially would give something (early), smart and schroo are eating all the minutes and doing it well, even without shooting great. Nesmith is really the only guy who could fight for a spot from romeo or jrich but romeo is shooting 41% from 3 and jrich has been shooting much better lately, but excellent defensively! (I was wrong on the total shots, its more like 11)

Defense was missing last season, pritch could play, we didnt have good players to fight for minutes ahead of him anyway. I dont know how long i want to see him or nesmith play when not only not shooting well, but looking lost out there. I dont know whats wrong with pritch but from the look of it, shooting is the least of his worries! Poor guy cant drive by anyone when hes been out there. How long do we force them until they find their way? Again, we are winning games now. Im not willing to trust JT/JBs happiness because ne and pritch may become useful if we force them ahead of guys who are. If we were still losing, fine, but we aren’t.

Ime said the shooting is getting to guys, you want to let guys who have been worse take over, just incase by game 50 one will be shooting 40% like romeo (who also defends)? Pritchard got 6 shots last season, yes 6! We’re talking about 6 shots only, on a team where kemba missed a lot of games (or was turrible) and smart was the only other player! Romeo was Injured (I could've shot better). Jb, injured. We had NO ONE, he still only took 6 shots! Shot 41% like romeo is shooting now.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#86 » by Shak_Celts » Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:02 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:Cs won't always play against geriatrics who can barely move and have no other resort but to foul or leave the driving lanes open, but I HOPE our guys remember this is how we should play. Trust the pass, trust your teammates to make the next right read. None of that "they're just gonna miss anyway so I'll take it upon myself to score" mindset. Perfect example was Tatum giving up the ball which eventually finds its way back to him for a wide open three. Basketball made easy. Everyone gets to touch the ball. Defense is deflated. Teammates and fans are energized. Momentum is built. As opposed to that stand-around, stagnant, stinking offense we sometimes settle for.


Our buckets came from folks just EASILY going to the basket 1vs1, they just didn't hesitate and there was no resistance. We didn't dance much, but the buckets came from driving in and making the shots tonight. If we weren't making those shots like we hadn't been, a lot of people would not be talking about ball movement and passing. We had highlight passes, but we have had a lot lately in other games (smart). The ball has moved more in games we have lost (because of missed shots). Everything looks better when balls drop.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#87 » by Tatumfor2 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:12 am

I'm not sure what game you all were watching, but the only takeaway from this game is that everyone should be nicer to Lebron! I'm looking at you Enes.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#88 » by 1st banana » Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:42 am

Lakers defense was pathetic I loved how Lebron and ad rolled their eyes and gave looks to teammates when we drove and scored while they both just stood around.

Especially Lebron he did absolutely **** on defense and he’s out there throwing looks at people lol.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#89 » by zoyathedestroya » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:00 am

FlatearthZorro wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:Defense is more system and coach. Offense really is dictated by how well your top guys play and I just don't mean scoring.


I can't agree with that. We were a pretty decent team on offense and defense with Horfie and IT as our main guys supported by Jae and Avery.

You're underestimating the offensive season IT had and the offensive player IT was, pre-injury. Tatum might be more complete as a player 'cos he can play both ends, but IT was magnificent as a scorer from all levels that season but also made the right reads every time he drove. He was also more than willing to be the screener and get himself and others going while playing offball. Even if Ime has a good system in place, if Tatum refuses to be more selfless and initiate ball movement, we wouldn't have success.

Golden State wouldn't be able to do what they're doing if all Curry does is dribble and look for his own shots. Kerr's system won't work this well either if Draymond wasn't such a passing savant. Their top two guys playing at the top of their games are what makes the system work.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#90 » by thebirdman » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:24 am

We played great for the last three quarters! Attack, attack, attack and you will get good looks... Tatum was brilliant, he was extremely physical going to the rim.

Smart, Al, Schröder were great. Bench was also really positive, everybody contributed.

With JB and Rob, we can play defense with the best of them. On offense just keep moving the ball and attacking the rim and this team can go a long way.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#91 » by Froob » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:30 am

Man the menace is really kind of a season saver for us. Thank god he turned down all that blood money from the Lakers to be a good guy.

Great game from Smart as well (who I was very hard on early in the season).

I don’t see it with this Lakers team at all, I think their window is closed. I think WB will figure it out but they have basically 3 players and a bunch of old guys (half of which probably won’t even survive the season).
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#92 » by Bohemian » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:19 pm

Best game of the season. Amazing game by the C´s and we beat those Fakers!

Let´s go Celtics!!!!
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#93 » by Half-Full » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:42 pm

Giving the cigar to Tatum is a no brainer. Just a great game. Special mention to Marcus and Josh who both have been very steady of late. And how about Enes Kanter? He gets 16 minutes of playing time, scores 5 points, gets 7 rebounds, and finishes with a +21 rating. Ime, take note. Good game.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#94 » by Jaqua92 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:20 pm

Why isn't this 100% Tatum?

Best game of his career for multiple reasons.

The team follows the lead of it's best player.

The 37/11/2 isn't his best statline. But it don't matter.

He moved the ball. He DROVE over and over. His body language was great. He was getting pumped, smiling, etc.

THIS is the Tatum that will win us Championships. His entire attitude was different.

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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#95 » by radcot » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:21 pm

Wow. Impressive win, especially missing two of our best players. Tatum was immense. Smart had one of his best overall games as a Celtic. Richardson, Schroder, Big Al, Grant - all contributed greatly. Should vote "team," I guess, but Tatum and Smart stood out. Tough choice between them, but had to go with JT. When he's in superstar mode, he is something to behold.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#96 » by The Comedian » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:25 pm

Jaqua92 wrote:Why isn't this 100% Tatum?

Best game of his career for multiple reasons.

The team follows the lead of it's best player.

The 37/11/2 isn't his best statline. But it don't matter.

He moved the ball. He DROVE over and over. His body language was great. He was getting pumped, smiling, etc.

THIS is the Tatum that will win us Championships. His entire attitude was different.

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Because Smart was EXCELLENT, too. And it was Smart/J-Rich that got us back into the game when Tatum was sitting with foul trouble.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#97 » by Drax » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:44 pm

By the way can i say that i really like our top eight currently. If Ime can get these eight (Smart, Schröder, Richardson, Romeo, JB, JT, Horford, Rob) to buy into four key elements we're very very dangerous. Three point shooting, ball movement, attacking the rim and defense.
Boston Celtics depth chart:

Guards: Smart, Brown, Schröder, Richardson, Pritchard
Wings: Tatum, Nesmith, Langford, G. Willams
Bigs: R. Willams, Horford, Kanter, Hernangomez
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#98 » by playa-hater » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:16 pm

Shak_Celts wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
Shak_Celts wrote:
my point is we are about 6-3 lately and all those guys have played well through it, who should they be playing over? it's not as simple as letting them play through it when there are barely minutes for romeo and jrich at times and both have been solid, jrich especially. so, you let nesmith and pritch play and play and HOPE they turn it around (while not being the defenders ime wants), then they don't, what do you say to the other guys who have been productive?

even if nee and pritch were hitting the few shots that are available like the guys in front of them have lately (smart is better even without good shooting), how much more could that help over what romeo and jrich are giving, because that's what they are doing (except they also defend)? those are the only guys who you could try and play them over because making a couple of shots a game isn't taking minutes from smart and schroo who do more than that. romeo and jrich are taking 7 shots combined per game, tell me, what more can nesmith and pritch be doing with so few shots? Smart is only taking 9 shots which is a SMALL amount for the minutes he plays. where are their shots coming from to let them get into a rhythm? let me know.


But this is just it.. it's not just How many shots they can get.. but in theory, with better shooters, you can get better spacing.. when it all comes down to it, the better teams, will definitely try to crowd and trap Tatum and JB. Especially in crunch time. So what oston will need is perhaps one or two more KEY 3 pointers made, to make teams hesitate when deciding to trap the Js.. If not, we may still see what we have seen too numerous times in the past. Not just this season, but years before. And that is Tatum passes it out (when trapped) shots not made, then he tries to do it all on himself.

There is no way, after a small sample size of just a few games, will I believe this current lineup of scrappy tough defenders, who may not shot well, Is the long term answer.

Let's go back to this conversation when better defenses, do as I predict and attempt to smother Tatum and his teammates DO NOT Hit shots.. That is the time to prove or dis-prove my theory of having a true knock down shooter and the benefits or Not of that.


People aren't going to think they are good shooters without proof. They will need shots to prove it. Where are they coming from? Which one of them are you calling a knockdown shooter? Pritch shot it very well last season, the whole season, but he also didn’t have to defend, our d was TRASH. So, not only will they have to find shots and prove they are shooters, they have to defend! The best shooters aren't defenders unless they are the top guys (not even then really). You cant expect ime to let them find their shots while also not being able to defend when the guys ahead are proving they can. Right now, ne nor pritch have proven to ime they can do anything positive in real games! You could see ime really thought pritch especially would give something (early), smart and schroo are eating all the minutes and doing it well, even without shooting great. Nesmith is really the only guy who could fight for a spot from romeo or jrich but romeo is shooting 41% from 3 and jrich has been shooting much better lately, but excellent defensively! (I was wrong on the total shots, its more like 11)

Defense was missing last season, pritch could play, we didnt have good players to fight for minutes ahead of him anyway. I dont know how long i want to see him or nesmith play when not only not shooting well, but looking lost out there. I dont know whats wrong with pritch but from the look of it, shooting is the least of his worries! Poor guy cant drive by anyone when hes been out there. How long do we force them until they find their way? Again, we are winning games now. Im not willing to trust JT/JBs happiness because ne and pritch may become useful if we force them ahead of guys who are. If we were still losing, fine, but we aren’t.

Ime said the shooting is getting to guys, you want to let guys who have been worse take over, just incase by game 50 one will be shooting 40% like romeo (who also defends)? Pritchard got 6 shots last season, yes 6! We’re talking about 6 shots only, on a team where kemba missed a lot of games (or was turrible) and smart was the only other player! Romeo was Injured (I could've shot better). Jb, injured. We had NO ONE, he still only took 6 shots! Shot 41% like romeo is shooting now.


There is so much to digest. not sure where to begin or if I want to.. Every truly competitive team in this Era has solid shooters. Ime decided to put all his eggs in the basket with his "defenders" in Smart, Schro and J Rich.. He put Nesmith from day one behind the 8 ball.(PP had a Broken nose so was set back regardless) Having invested in "Day One" you might be seeing a totally different Nesmith. Many/most was expecting Nesmith to actually be a starter. Most understood the need of Nesmith to play off the ball and allow the Js to do their thing, while in Theory knockin down the open shots the Js left them.

It may all be hypothetical and can not be proven, but my gut says put anyone in Nesmith's current role all season long, whether it be Smart, J Rich, Romeo and give them scant minutes. Sprinkle in some DNPs and watch how horrific their numbers would be. All while "in theory" Nesmith's confidence may have been sky high in their shoes, right now and results showing.

You bring up last years defense, but as a team they were far worse overall. playing TT and Theis together was perhaps the biggest culprit, Let's not forget how bad Kemba was. Throw in some of the small lineups Stevens would throw out here with Teague/Edwards/T.Waters and it was a recipe for disaster. Nesmith however showed a high energy, sometimes reckless ability in a good way to be a good defender. Certainly enough to make me believe if Nesmith was fully involved with THIS YEAR'S ROSTER vs last years roster, we could "in theory" be just as good defensively.

"In theory" is something every coach must do before a single regular season game is played. His theories on system, players to be used etc, will shape our season. The theory that Coach Spo used in starting a skinny white kid who never played a single minute in the NBA over a better more talented player in Herro, was all Spo had to go on.. But his "theory" payed huge dividends. I'd imagine if under Coach Ime, In theory, he would have said Duncan Robinson was not a good enough defender, relegated him to occasional spot duty, and today we might not even know who D Robinson was.

Before this season ends, the lack of shooting will come back to haunt us. assuming we want more than some middle of the pack finish.
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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#99 » by Hal14 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:20 pm

Tatum sealed getting the victory cigar with this cute moment with his son :)

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Re: Victory Cigar!!! BOS 130, LAL 108 (8-8) 

Post#100 » by The Comedian » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:21 pm

Arbitrary cutoff and all that, I know. But over the last 7 games, Tatum is averaging 28/9/4 on 44/40 splits, and has a +9.3 net rating. After the last two games, seems like he may be back to himself.

Defense has been consistently very good since the few few games, as well.

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