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Shout out to Grant Williams

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Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#1 » by timpiker » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:40 pm

Just wanted to mention that I really appreciate Grant Williams the more I see him play, especially this year. He's not got a lot of raw talent but he's smart, plays very good D, moves his feet well, can guard 4 positions and sometimes all 5, boxes out and rebounds well, has really developed into a good 3-point shooter. Sometimes he starts but on this team, when everyone is healthy, he's probably the 8th player. He is just so versatile. A very good player to have on this team. Thank you Grant !!!
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#2 » by 31to6 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:41 pm

Agreed. A lot of posters last season lumped him in with Semi and other roster fodder who sucked. Grant’s been an obvious rotation quality guy since he got here, and has made great strides in his body and game (especially shooting).
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#3 » by Green89 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:33 pm

He's much improved this year, and the bond with his teammates is very apparent.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#4 » by cl2117 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:42 pm

I've said this for a while, Grant is exactly the kind of guy we'd be looking to trade for on the cheap from other teams. Jack of all trades, master of none, but a guy who can fill gaps. He's got a relatively low ceiling, but I think he can develop into a guy with a really solid floor and that's more or less what we are getting this season.

It's been a pretty straightforward trajectory for him: get rid of the boneheaded fouls and stay consistent with that corner 3 and he's a solid rotation piece. He's averaging half the fouls per 36 he was previously and is 40%+ from 3 (going from 43% to 53% on corner 3's so far).

I think he's ended up as a bit of the whipping boy because of his lack of huge upside but also because Danny had a history of taking tweener big bodied bigs who didn't work out (Yabs/Sully to a lesser extent).

He was never going to be a home run, but sometimes you need to just aim to hit singles with picks in the back half of the first round and that's what Grant is starting to look like. And that's what you need when you've got some top talent already in Tatum/Brown.

It's great to see for a guy who has always been championed as a good locker room presence. Hopefully he's turned a corner.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#5 » by Curmudgeon » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:04 pm

Why is his ceiling low? He has improved his 3 point shooting and his defense every year. Why can't he keep improving?
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#6 » by cl2117 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:15 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Why is his ceiling low? He has improved his 3 point shooting and his defense every year. Why can't he keep improving?

He's just not athletic enough to ever be an all-star caliber player.

That's what I'm talking about in terms of ceiling. At his peak I think he can be a great rotation player for you thanks to his switch-ability and shooting, but that feels like the max in terms of his potential.

He definitely can keep improving though. I see him as a guy who will get significantly better in the margins as he gains "veteran savvy". We've seen how much a difference it makes for him reducing those bad fouls he was regularly making his first two seasons, I expect similar improvements in terms of passing the ball, rebounding, general defense etc. Not massive leaps, but improvements nonetheless. He can have a long career, especially with the way the league is trending with tweener guys being more valuable.

A lot of it seems like it's going to come down to how well he takes care of his body. It felt like he either needed to bulk up or slim down and he's gone for the latter with really positive results. He'll have to maintain that if he wants to keep making those advancements in his game because he's not an overly impressive athlete by NBA standards.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#7 » by djFan71 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:02 pm

31to6 wrote:Agreed. A lot of posters last season lumped him in with Semi and other roster fodder who sucked. Grant’s been an obvious rotation quality guy since he got here, and has made great strides in his body and game (especially shooting).

To be fair, he was a lot worse last year when he lost his quickness and turned into a foul machine on D. What really sucked was when Brad lumped Grant & Semi together on the court at the same time. They both are the same role and need to be surrounded by better players to truly shine, esp offensively - Grant obviously better overall. Putting them together was kinda disastrous - I think that led to people disparaging both equally, even though it wasn't deserved.

This year, I think Grant's benefitted from losing weight (obviously) and playing more as a strong wing/tweener PF than a small ball 5. Which go hand in hand - you don't need the weight if you're not battling down low as often. And not having it lets him switch on to guys 1-4 much easier.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#8 » by Dogen » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:11 pm

I liked the Grant pick at 22 in 2019, but honestly I’ve kept an eye on Clarke and Thybulle since they were available with the original 20 pick. And Bazley at 23 too, to some extent.

Grant was very young as a rookie, had a … doughy… sophomore season but it seems that his stock is definitely surging this year.

Who would take one of those other three at this point, and why? I think the main argument for Grant is his ability to be a utility knife kind of player. Not the defense of Thybulle, the hops of Clarke, nor the athleticism of Bazley but perhaps the most well-rounded player.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#9 » by Curmudgeon » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:28 pm

cl2117 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Why is his ceiling low? He has improved his 3 point shooting and his defense every year. Why can't he keep improving?

He's just not athletic enough to ever be an all-star caliber player.


You don't have to be athletic. You just need to know how to play basketball. Is Jokic athletic? Was Bird athletic?
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#10 » by Marvel » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:54 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:
cl2117 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Why is his ceiling low? He has improved his 3 point shooting and his defense every year. Why can't he keep improving?

He's just not athletic enough to ever be an all-star caliber player.


You don't have to be athletic. You just need to know how to play basketball. Is Jokic athletic? Was Bird athletic?

:lol: come on Curm.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#11 » by Marvel » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:55 pm

Just shoot the 3 well and play good disciplined defense without fouling. He'll be a good piece off the bench.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#12 » by Curmudgeon » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:10 pm

I could give you a list of dozens of all stars who weren't particularly athletic.

Antoine Walker, Chris Mullin, Tom Chambers, Bill Bradley, Glenn Robinson.. the list goes on.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#13 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:29 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:I could give you a list of dozens of all stars who weren't particularly athletic.

Antoine Walker, Chris Mullin, Tom Chambers, Bill Bradley, Glenn Robinson.. the list goes on.


Antoine is a good example. He was a 6'8" PF who was an all star early in his career but eventually got out of shape and that was one of the major reasons he stopped being a star.

Grant is a 6'6" PF who played at around 300lbs last year because for some inexplicable reason he was asked to play center. The result was that his play was not great. This year he lost some weight and has been moved back to PF where he belongs and is much more effective.

Point is, yes you don't have to be an all world athlete to be a high level player, but if you aren't an all world athlete you better keep your body right because your margin for error is smaller.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#14 » by cl2117 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:36 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:I could give you a list of dozens of all stars who weren't particularly athletic.

Antoine Walker, Chris Mullin, Tom Chambers, Bill Bradley, Glenn Robinson.. the list goes on.

Exceptions rather than the rule, especially in today's NBA.

I'd love for Grant to become an all-star, but I just don't see it. He'd have to make tremendous leaps and bounds and even then it's dicey. No shame in having a ceiling short of all-star, especially if he raises his floor like he has done this season.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#15 » by Curmudgeon » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:50 am

The question isn't whether Grant Williams achieves all star status. The question is whether or not he can be a rotation player on a championship team.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#16 » by BostonCouchGM » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:06 am

he's not good. The only difference I see is he seemingly gets away with being very physical on defense without getting called for fouls. It makes it appear like he's a better defender but it's not real. The higher usage and increased wide open threes result in slightly better numbers. He's not good enough to be getting all the minutes he gets especially over others but Ime clearly values him and as long as a guy like him is getting 20 mpg we're irrelevant. He should only ever play in small ball lineups where he can play the 5, maybe 10 mpg at most.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#17 » by philing00 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:54 pm

I don’t trust his form with the 3. Can’t hit it when he’s rushed. Romeos form looks better.
He is a good ball mover though. Just very predictable on offense and a turnstile on defense. I don’t know why he is playing so many minutes in the first quarter. He looks gassed after 5 minutes.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#18 » by 31to6 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 pm

Hold up now

I know he’s white and goofy looking and I never liked his game, but this guy was in the 1987 dunk contest.

Re: Grant, he’s starting to make some average/adequate plays off the dribble and he couldn’t last year. Big step forward for him.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#19 » by timpiker » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:20 pm

Grant's not going to be an all-star, he's just a solid player. He's the kind of player that good teams need to be good.
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Re: Shout out to Grant Williams 

Post#20 » by GoGreen » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:50 pm

Grant shouldn't be playing meaningful minutes, never mind starting, cmon yall. The Nets showed him zero respect. I think our fanbase has a bad habit of overvaluing guys. Grant is a back of roster guy.

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