ImageImageImage

Grant Williams Thread

Moderators: bisme37, Parliament10, shackles10, snowman, canman1971, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts, Froob

BK_2020
RealGM
Posts: 14,594
And1: 13,605
Joined: Sep 08, 2020
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#721 » by BK_2020 » Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:56 pm

His scoring per 36/per 100 is basically the same as last season. Every time he does something good we think it means he's evolved. That tells us more about our expectations than anything.

Sent from my SM-G991U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
Parliament10
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 45,689
And1: 53,214
Joined: Jul 24, 2009
       

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#722 » by Parliament10 » Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:13 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
JaMarco wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Anyway super-happy for Grant, I've been living island life about his offensive upside. Actually flashing a little more potential than I expected. He's somehow gotten agile enough and strong enough to attack close-outs, finish in the paint, and post up smaller defenders. Hooks, floaters, dunks.. If he keeps it up he's got to be at least a 16 million a year guy..

He's probably going to get a lot more than that.


If he’s leveled up and scores this well for the rest of the year I can see 17-18. Anything beyond that is an upside bet or a high bid from a cap space team.. I don’t think Presti wants to give him 20 million..

He's definitely bet on himself, this year. $17-18M might be his Market.
"You have to put the work in.
Nothing is given."

~ Jayson Tatum
User avatar
ballup
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,965
And1: 3,526
Joined: Dec 08, 2013
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#723 » by ballup » Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:11 pm

Grant has been eager to show off this ability to attack off closeouts. To become a great role player, balancing moments of limited shots and stepping up is key.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
JaMarco
Rookie
Posts: 1,119
And1: 633
Joined: Apr 16, 2016

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#724 » by JaMarco » Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:13 pm

ballup wrote:Grant has been eager to show off this ability to attack off closeouts. To become a great role player, balancing moments of limited shots and stepping up is key.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

He's taken a big jump this year, much improved.
User avatar
ballup
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,965
And1: 3,526
Joined: Dec 08, 2013
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#725 » by ballup » Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:18 pm

JaMarco wrote:
ballup wrote:Grant has been eager to show off this ability to attack off closeouts. To become a great role player, balancing moments of limited shots and stepping up is key.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

He's taken a big jump this year, much improved.
Think it's more opportunity in other teams stressing to not let him shoot. Gives him more room to operate. There are times where I think he should shoot it when instead he holds it to make a move. That comes with maturity in one's career so I'm not ringing any bells

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
Andrew McCeltic
RealGM
Posts: 23,145
And1: 8,542
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#726 » by Andrew McCeltic » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:47 pm



Watching highlights from the Raptors game.. if this is who he's going to become, IDK if 17 million is his ceiling. It's still sloppy to watch, but he's getting to that sweet spot where he's strong enough to hold his ground inside but skilled and mobile enough to attack from the perimeter. He's figuring out how to score around size, sets good screens, smart about relocating off the ball. I don't think he's hit his ceiling, he could stabilize as a low-key all-around offensive threat. 14-16 ppg season isn't out of the question. I think Boston has to pay him, the only risk is that he leaves for a bigger role in Indiana or wherever.
BK_2020
RealGM
Posts: 14,594
And1: 13,605
Joined: Sep 08, 2020
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#727 » by BK_2020 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:55 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:

Watching highlights from the Raptors game.. if this is who he's going to become, IDK if 17 million is his ceiling. It's still sloppy to watch, but he's getting to that sweet spot where he's strong enough to hold his ground inside but skilled and mobile enough to attack from the perimeter. He's figuring out how to score around size, sets good screens, smart about relocating off the ball. I don't think he's hit his ceiling, he could stabilize as a low-key all-around offensive threat. 14-16 ppg season isn't out of the question. I think Boston has to pay him, the only risk is that he leaves for a bigger role in Indiana or wherever.

He's basically the same level of scorer as last season. Identical per 100 scoring rate. 0.3 more points per 36 minutes. I don't know if he can ramp that up to 14-16 ppg without looking really ugly in the process.
Andrew McCeltic
RealGM
Posts: 23,145
And1: 8,542
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#728 » by Andrew McCeltic » Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:47 pm

It's not just how many points he's getting, it's how he's getting them. And this could be it - a few 20 point games once in awhile when he's feeling it - but the improvements this year raise his ceiling because he's likely to cement them over the next year or two.
hugepatsfan
Head Coach
Posts: 6,680
And1: 6,257
Joined: May 28, 2020
       

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#729 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:01 pm

The issue with replacing Grant is that it's difficult to find guys who can check all the boxes he checks. And I'm not saying he necessarily checks them all spectacularly, but he does check them. It's very rare to find someone who can:

1) Space the floor
2) capably guard bigs
3) capably switch onto the perimeter

I'm not saying he's Stepth Curry. I'm not saying he's the "Giannis stopper". I'm not saying he can guard explosive wings 1 on 1 possession after possession. But he checks all 3 boxes at a solid clip for playoff basketball. That's rare for role players. Most guys in that tier are fatally flawed in some way that renders them utterly unplayable at some point in the playoffs.

What I think made our team special in last year's run is our ability to play so many different styles with the same guys. Horford/Grant isn't considered small ball but you can still play 5 out. Horford/Rob is considered an especially "big" lineup but can still guard the perimeter.

Grant's multi-dimensional skillset, even if not spectacular at any of them is a big part of that identity for me. That's why I'd make it a priority to pay up for him over trying to get someone cheaper. Because while I think you could adequately replace him in spurts, I don't think for a tax payers MLE you're going to be able to find someone whose game is as "portable" from playoff series to playoff series.
User avatar
shackles10
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 11,331
And1: 5,254
Joined: May 13, 2004
Location: Indiana
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#730 » by shackles10 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:17 pm

He’s a lot like PJ Tucker only much younger and we saw how contenders salivate over him and overpay him too. Fortunately for us not a lot of contenders can afford him, but maybe a team who wants to lock him up now before they become contenders or even just feeling opportunistic and feeling like they can always flip him to a contender later if they sign him now.
jfs1000d
RealGM
Posts: 27,054
And1: 13,963
Joined: Jun 25, 2004

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#731 » by jfs1000d » Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:38 pm

BK_2020 wrote:His scoring per 36/per 100 is basically the same as last season. Every time he does something good we think it means he's evolved. That tells us more about our expectations than anything.

Sent from my SM-G991U using RealGM mobile app


Are you watching the games?

First off, per 36 is a great stat, but he has maintained effiency with minutes increase. That is actually a sign he is playing better.

Secondly, his game is more varied. He is driving closeouts and scoring off the dribble, and makes much better offensive plays off the dribble. No longer just a spot up shooter in the corner.

Guys is between a 4 year $60M (what I want to pay him) and a 4-year $80M (probably what he wants).

I look at him as Horford's eventual replacement at the 4. He isn't horford at the rim, but he can provide a lot of the offense and perimeter defense horford does.
Wes-J
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,977
And1: 3,769
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#732 » by Wes-J » Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:52 pm

Grant is by far and way our most overrated Celtic, imo. He blows way too hot and cold for me and we're supposed to be impressed that he can make some wide open shots? If he was a bigger factor rebounding that would help me get on the train but no I'm not there yet.

If we sign him at 17-18/yr we're gonna have some fun threads moving forward.
User avatar
zoyathedestroya
RealGM
Posts: 36,618
And1: 87,852
Joined: Nov 05, 2017

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#733 » by zoyathedestroya » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:13 pm

shackles10 wrote:He’s a lot like PJ Tucker only much younger and we saw how contenders salivate over him and overpay him too. Fortunately for us not a lot of contenders can afford him, but maybe a team who wants to lock him up now before they become contenders or even just feeling opportunistic and feeling like they can always flip him to a contender later if they sign him now.

Grant can provide more than Tucker on offense but is a lesser player on defense and in terms of rebounding. More and more, I’m thinking the Tucker comparison was off all along.

The Hornets’ PJ (who some here covet) is a closer comparison for me. Surprisingly enough, he rebounds better than that guy.

(I’m not discounting the possibility he can improve on defense.)
BK_2020
RealGM
Posts: 14,594
And1: 13,605
Joined: Sep 08, 2020
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#734 » by BK_2020 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:28 pm

jfs1000d wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:His scoring per 36/per 100 is basically the same as last season. Every time he does something good we think it means he's evolved. That tells us more about our expectations than anything.

Sent from my SM-G991U using RealGM mobile app


Are you watching the games?

First off, per 36 is a great stat, but he has maintained effiency with minutes increase. That is actually a sign he is playing better.

Secondly, his game is more varied. He is driving closeouts and scoring off the dribble, and makes much better offensive plays off the dribble. No longer just a spot up shooter in the corner.

Guys is between a 4 year $60M (what I want to pay him) and a 4-year $80M (probably what he wants).

I look at him as Horford's eventual replacement at the 4. He isn't horford at the rim, but he can provide a lot of the offense and perimeter defense horford does.


At the end of the day, all these supposed improvements come out to nothing in the real results department. He's a sub 10 ppg scorer on good efficiency. Why is that? He is actually even less efficient relative to the league than last season. Maybe you need to watch the games more carefully?
User avatar
shackles10
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 11,331
And1: 5,254
Joined: May 13, 2004
Location: Indiana
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#735 » by shackles10 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:36 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
shackles10 wrote:He’s a lot like PJ Tucker only much younger and we saw how contenders salivate over him and overpay him too. Fortunately for us not a lot of contenders can afford him, but maybe a team who wants to lock him up now before they become contenders or even just feeling opportunistic and feeling like they can always flip him to a contender later if they sign him now.

Grant can provide more than Tucker on offense but is a lesser player on defense and in terms of rebounding. More and more, I’m thinking the Tucker comparison was off all along.

The Hornets’ PJ (who some here covet) is a closer comparison for me. Surprisingly enough, he rebounds better than that guy.

(I’m not discounting the possibility he can improve on defense.)


I don’t think he’s any worse than current day PJ Tucker is defensively and he got paid/was highly coveted still.
ThePigeon
Starter
Posts: 2,373
And1: 1,202
Joined: Feb 25, 2004
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#736 » by ThePigeon » Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:46 pm

If we sign Grant (who is useless in the last stretch of games, can't stop anyone and dumb plays on offense) I suggest to add a clause in the contract that any interaction he has with an official will he be fined $10K.
After a couple of games and minus about a couple of millions he will stop complaining and start playing
I guess the refs call more against him because of the bitching
User avatar
shackles10
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 11,331
And1: 5,254
Joined: May 13, 2004
Location: Indiana
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#737 » by shackles10 » Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:25 pm

ThePigeon wrote:If we sign Grant (who is useless in the last stretch of games, can't stop anyone and dumb plays on offense) I suggest to add a clause in the contract that any interaction he has with an official will he be fines $10K.
After a couple of games and minus about a couple of millions he will stop complaining and start playing
I guess the refs call more against him because of the bitching


Grant would be in the red by all-star break next season if they did this.
ThePigeon
Starter
Posts: 2,373
And1: 1,202
Joined: Feb 25, 2004
 

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#738 » by ThePigeon » Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:22 pm

shackles10 wrote:
ThePigeon wrote:If we sign Grant (who is useless in the last stretch of games, can't stop anyone and dumb plays on offense) I suggest to add a clause in the contract that any interaction he has with an official will he be fines $10K.
After a couple of games and minus about a couple of millions he will stop complaining and start playing
I guess the refs call more against him because of the bitching


Grant would be in the red by all-star break next season if they did this.


This is the only way he'll shut up and start playing hard
All team should learn from Al in this regard
Fencer reregistered
RealGM
Posts: 38,774
And1: 25,528
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#739 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:29 pm

shackles10 wrote:
ThePigeon wrote:If we sign Grant (who is useless in the last stretch of games, can't stop anyone and dumb plays on offense) I suggest to add a clause in the contract that any interaction he has with an official will he be fines $10K.
After a couple of games and minus about a couple of millions he will stop complaining and start playing
I guess the refs call more against him because of the bitching


Grant would be in the red by all-star break next season if they did this.


He'll be paid well over $100K/game, and that's including the postseason.
Banned temporarily for, among other sins, being "Extremely Deviant".
User avatar
zoyathedestroya
RealGM
Posts: 36,618
And1: 87,852
Joined: Nov 05, 2017

Re: Grant Williams Thread 

Post#740 » by zoyathedestroya » Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:43 pm

We used to complain about KO showing up every 7 games or so. It’s closer to every 5 games with Grant lol. He’s currently on a 3-game blah streak since the Toronto game.

Return to Boston Celtics