Game Thread – Celtics (10-9) @ Spurs (4-13) – 8:30PM, Fri, Nov. 26, 2021

[Curmudgeon]

It was all Juancho's fault.

[AlCelticFan]

Yeah, not a good loss lol.

15-0 run to end it.

when I was in college, way back when, we would review game video.. I wish I could Edit a few possessions and show everyone some examples of failures.

Schroder and Smart individual can be good at times.. But together they present a huge problem with spacing

.. Schroder did hit one corner 3 so wide open you could have put a pickup truck through. The very next possession, Schroder again was wide open and missed.. The following few possessions, No one was near him again, Tatum refused to pass it.. while being trapped or heavily shaded.. This happens nightly.. Spacing is atrocious.. Even if Smart and/or Shroder manage to make a decent % from 3, teams will not stop crowding the Tatum.. they will live with Smart/Schroder making a few.. far better than letting Tatum go off.

There is actually overwhelming evidence all year long of this happening..

It is a horrible philosophy to have these lineups.. It might get you over the hump sometimes.. against a bad team.. but we just lost to a Bottom 3 team in the league.. 15-0 run or whatever..

Blame Tatum, Blame Brown, as some do.. but Ime puts them in such bad positions, over and over again.. what do people actually expect??

what was the excuse?? It's only 20 games ?? or "we are 8 and 3" in our last 11???
People on here refuse to see there are Major issues going on.. and Ime is a Huge part of it..

Yup. All blame starts at the top. Then down to the coach. Then down to the players who have to execute. But if the players are put in positions that are not sustainable long-term, it puts them in a spot where they're not incentivized to play good team basketball (not passing to wide-open players at the 3-point line is not really a habit you want to build in your team, no?)

To my eyes this team is pretty gross. Man, I miss the team we had a few years back stacked with all-stars who could shoot. Oh how we have fallen, lol.

EDIT: And I think Kyrie is loco, but at least we could hit shots

[playa-hater]

Grant was so damn huge and benched at end.

Nesmith was big in the first half and never touched the court again as ime clearly favored schroder over everone else.

that'll teach Nesmith for going only 2 of 4.. slacker..

Oh and even when nesmith doesn't hit his 3.. they still run all out on him..

#spacing!!

Does spacing matter in 2021??

[Larry_Russell]

Schroder 38 minutes

3 of 14 on floor
4 fouls
2 turnover(responsible for more)
Piss poor defense

If denis isnt scoring 20ppg he is a negative on the court.

He has to go.

the bolded part - how do you figure?

his defense wasn't that bad. he didn't play great D but "piss poor" is an exaggeration.

4 fouls in 38 mins...so what?

trade him for what? salaries would need to match in a trade - if you think we're getting anyone in return for him for under $6 mil who's any better, you're nuts.

definitely not his best game tonight, but he's clearly been one of our better players when you look at this season so far as a whole. were you saying get rid of him when he won us the game vs cleveland? how bad would that have been if we lost 2 in a row to the cavs? we won that game vs cleveland because of him.

Threw some bad passes that caused a turnover to another player.

Fouls were bad fouls.

His defense was brutal, that is obvious, he kissed alot of rotations

I have always been on the trade schroder bandwagon, as has media and most likely brad. We cannot eesign him, so why lose him for nothing.

And like I have stated mutiple times, if schroder isnt giving you 20ppg, he is a negative on the court.

[playa-hater]

Yeah, not a good loss lol.

15-0 run to end it.

when I was in college, way back when, we would review game video.. I wish I could Edit a few possessions and show everyone some examples of failures.

Schroder and Smart individual can be good at times.. But together they present a huge problem with spacing

.. Schroder did hit one corner 3 so wide open you could have put a pickup truck through. The very next possession, Schroder again was wide open and missed.. The following few possessions, No one was near him again, Tatum refused to pass it.. while being trapped or heavily shaded.. This happens nightly.. Spacing is atrocious.. Even if Smart and/or Shroder manage to make a decent % from 3, teams will not stop crowding the Tatum.. they will live with Smart/Schroder making a few.. far better than letting Tatum go off.

There is actually overwhelming evidence all year long of this happening..

It is a horrible philosophy to have these lineups.. It might get you over the hump sometimes.. against a bad team.. but we just lost to a Bottom 3 team in the league.. 15-0 run or whatever..

Blame Tatum, Blame Brown, as some do.. but Ime puts them in such bad positions, over and over again.. what do people actually expect??

what was the excuse?? It's only 20 games ?? or "we are 8 and 3" in our last 11???
People on here refuse to see there are Major issues going on.. and Ime is a Huge part of it..

Yup. All blame starts at the top. Then down to the coach. Then down to the players who have to execute. But if the players are put in positions that are not sustainable long-term, it puts them in a spot where they're not incentivized to play good team basketball (not passing to wide-open players at the 3-point line is not really a habit you want to build in your team, no?)

To my eyes this team is pretty gross. Man, I miss the team we had a few years back stacked with all-stars who could shoot. Oh how we have fallen, lol.

EDIT: And I think Kyrie is loco, but at least we could hit shots

So much this part... thank you for saving my sanity on here.. there are a few others who can see this as well.. sad we "might" be in the minority on here..

[Hal14]

Schroder 38 minutes

3 of 14 on floor
4 fouls
2 turnover(responsible for more)
Piss poor defense

If denis isnt scoring 20ppg he is a negative on the court.

He has to go.

the bolded part - how do you figure?

his defense wasn't that bad. he didn't play great D but "piss poor" is an exaggeration.

4 fouls in 38 mins...so what?

trade him for what? salaries would need to match in a trade - if you think we're getting anyone in return for him for under $6 mil who's any better, you're nuts.

definitely not his best game tonight, but he's clearly been one of our better players when you look at this season so far as a whole. were you saying get rid of him when he won us the game vs cleveland? how bad would that have been if we lost 2 in a row to the cavs? we won that game vs cleveland because of him.

Threw some bad passes that caused a turnover to another player.

Fouls were bad fouls.

His defense was brutal, that is obvious, he kissed alot of rotations

I have always been on the trade schroder bandwagon, as has media and most likely brad. We cannot eesign him, so why lose him for nothing.

And like I have stated mutiple times, if schroder isnt giving you 20ppg, he is a negative on the court.

we wouldn't lose him for nothing. if he leaves, that frees up salary for us to be able to sign someone else with the $ we're paying him this year. no way we get equal or better value back in a trade when you have to match salaries. so mine as well just keep him for the rest of the season.

[playa-hater]

First quarter celtics always make it hard to win games. They don’t show up to start the game. Not only that, they choke in close games in the 4th. Why not just play better to start games. Like wtf is wrong with this team in starting the game off playing hard?

So basically you are saying the 1st and 4th quarters are Bad??

[Larry_Russell]

the bolded part - how do you figure?

his defense wasn't that bad. he didn't play great D but "piss poor" is an exaggeration.

4 fouls in 38 mins...so what?

trade him for what? salaries would need to match in a trade - if you think we're getting anyone in return for him for under $6 mil who's any better, you're nuts.

definitely not his best game tonight, but he's clearly been one of our better players when you look at this season so far as a whole. were you saying get rid of him when he won us the game vs cleveland? how bad would that have been if we lost 2 in a row to the cavs? we won that game vs cleveland because of him.

Threw some bad passes that caused a turnover to another player.

Fouls were bad fouls.

His defense was brutal, that is obvious, he kissed alot of rotations

I have always been on the trade schroder bandwagon, as has media and most likely brad. We cannot eesign him, so why lose him for nothing.

And like I have stated mutiple times, if schroder isnt giving you 20ppg, he is a negative on the court.

we wouldn't lose him for nothing. if he leaves, that frees up salary for us to be able to sign someone else with the $ we're paying him this year. no way we get equal or better value back in a trade when you have to match salaries. so mine as well just keep him for the rest of the season.

Player and a pick most likely, have the money no mater what next year weither we bring in salary in trade or not

[Fierce1]

I'm done with this with team.

All those great plays Marcus Smart did in the 2nd half went down the drain when he made that bad pass to Horford.

Celts were up by 1 at that point in time.

Net rating will once again show that Smart was good to great in this game.

But the net rating will never tell you that Smart cost the Celts the game.

I mean, this just shows you don’t understand stats or net rating at all lol. Smart’s net rating was not remotely good tonight.

This is why posters don’t take you seriously.

Maybe some posters don't take me seriously.
Most probably those who love Marcus Smart so much.

But here's the thing, you can make all the excuses you want about Marcus Smart, at the end of the day it's another Celtic loss because of Marcus Smart.

Celts lose another game, go back to being a .500 team, and your focus is about stats.

Like I keep telling you stat guys, the stats don't tell the whole story.

It's not like this is the first game Marcus Smart screwed up in the clutch.

Marcus Smart has been making bad decisions for years now.

In this game, that pass to Horford had ZERO chance of being successful.
It was either getting picked off or it would just hit Horford's knee and go out of bounds.

Jayson Tatum was hot in the 4th quarter and Smart kept giving the ball to Horford.

Smart's decision making in the clutch was just bad.

And I'm the one who should not be taken seriously?

[Fierce1]

I'm done with this with team.

All those great plays Marcus Smart did in the 2nd half went down the drain when he made that bad pass to Horford.

Celts were up by 1 at that point in time.

Net rating will once again show that Smart was good to great in this game.

But the net rating will never tell you that Smart cost the Celts the game.

lol

massive over-simplification by saying that one play cost us the game. give me a break. we lost because we dug ourselves a 24 point hole.

Bad pass by smart, yes. but smart played some good defense, awesome passes and awesome hustle plays - no way in hell we take the lead after being down 24 without smart.

not to mention that we lost by 8 points so for someone to say that there was ONE play that "cost us the game" that is pretty hilarious.

Maybe that's because you don't see how important momentum is in the NBA.

The NBA is a game of runs.

When Smart made that pass to Horford, there was 14 seconds left on the shot clock and the Celts leading by 1 point.

Why force the issue?

It's about making good decisions when it's winning time.

That was a bad decision by Smart to force that pass and the Spurs ended up taking the leading and going on a mini-run.

The point is all those awesome passes, awesome hustle plays, and some good defense went down the drain because Smart doesn't make the right decision when it's winning time.

Yeah, the Celts were down 24 early because the Celts were bad shooting the ball.
Smart was 2-10 to start the game.

That's why a lot of us here want Smart coming off the bench.

You're saying we lost the game by 8 points.
The question is how did the Spurs win by 8 points when they were down 1 point with 1:41 remaining in the 4th.
When Smart made that pass and the Spurs got the ball, the Spurs took the lead and went on a mini-run.
Momentum shifted in the Spurs favor after Smart made that bad pass.

Game of runs!

[Ill News]

I'm done with this with team.

All those great plays Marcus Smart did in the 2nd half went down the drain when he made that bad pass to Horford.

Celts were up by 1 at that point in time.

Net rating will once again show that Smart was good to great in this game.

But the net rating will never tell you that Smart cost the Celts the game.

lol

massive over-simplification by saying that one play cost us the game. give me a break. we lost because we dug ourselves a 24 point hole.

Bad pass by smart, yes. but smart played some good defense, awesome passes and awesome hustle plays - no way in hell we take the lead after being down 24 without smart.

not to mention that we lost by 8 points so for someone to say that there was ONE play that "cost us the game" that is pretty hilarious.

Maybe that's because you don't see how important momentum is in the NBA.

The NBA is a game of runs.

When Smart made that pass to Horford, there was 14 seconds left on the shot clock and the Celts leading by 1 point.

Why force the issue?

It's about making good decisions when it's winning time.

That was a bad decision by Smart to force that pass and the Spurs ended up taking the leading and going on a mini-run.

The point is all those awesome passes, awesome hustle plays, and some good defense went down the drain because Smart doesn't make the right decision when it's winning time.

Yeah, the Celts were down 24 early because the Celts were bad shooting the ball.
Smart was 2-10 to start the game.

That's why a lot of us here want Smart coming off the bench.

You're saying we lost the game by 8 points.
The question is how did the Spurs win by 8 points when they were down 1 point with 1:41 remaining in the 4th.
When Smart made that pass and the Spurs got the ball, the Spurs took the lead and went on a mini-run.
Momentum shifted in the Spurs favor after Smart made that bad pass.

Game of runs!

That bad Smart pass didn't decide the game, the Spurs were already on a run before that. They were already up 7 at one point, then proceeded to go away from what got them the lead in the first place, bringing in the ice-cold Horford and Brown to replace Kanter and Grant who had hustled us back into the lead, Schroeder making some bad offensive plays, and the team going away from Tatum when he was feeling it. The Smart turnover was just one of the many bad things they did that eventually snowballed into a (deserved) loss.

[Fierce1]

That bad Smart pass didn't decide the game, the Spurs were already on a run before that. They were already up 7 at one point, then proceeded to go away from what got them the lead in the first place, bringing in the ice-cold Horford and Brown to replace Kanter and Grant who had hustled us back into the lead, Schroeder making some bad offensive plays, and the team going away from Tatum when he was feeling it. The Smart turnover was just one of the many bad things they did that eventually snowballed into a (deserved) loss.

Yeah, you're right, it was only one of many bad things.

But here's the thing, Marcus Smart is still making bad decisions.

It's been going on for years!

Back in 2019-20, Celts were #3 seed and were on pace for 50 wins until the pandemic happened.

What's the difference between that team and this season's team?

Marcus Smart was not a starter and not given the role of running the team.

Although it was Kemba at PG, Hayward was playing a lot of Point Forward.

What happened after Hayward left?

Smart became a starter and given a bigger role.

We all know what happened last season and this season is looking like a repeat of last season even when the Celts have a new coach.

[Triple7]

lol

massive over-simplification by saying that one play cost us the game. give me a break. we lost because we dug ourselves a 24 point hole.

Bad pass by smart, yes. but smart played some good defense, awesome passes and awesome hustle plays - no way in hell we take the lead after being down 24 without smart.

not to mention that we lost by 8 points so for someone to say that there was ONE play that "cost us the game" that is pretty hilarious.

Maybe that's because you don't see how important momentum is in the NBA.

The NBA is a game of runs.

When Smart made that pass to Horford, there was 14 seconds left on the shot clock and the Celts leading by 1 point.

Why force the issue?

It's about making good decisions when it's winning time.

That was a bad decision by Smart to force that pass and the Spurs ended up taking the leading and going on a mini-run.

The point is all those awesome passes, awesome hustle plays, and some good defense went down the drain because Smart doesn't make the right decision when it's winning time.

Yeah, the Celts were down 24 early because the Celts were bad shooting the ball.
Smart was 2-10 to start the game.

That's why a lot of us here want Smart coming off the bench.

You're saying we lost the game by 8 points.
The question is how did the Spurs win by 8 points when they were down 1 point with 1:41 remaining in the 4th.
When Smart made that pass and the Spurs got the ball, the Spurs took the lead and went on a mini-run.
Momentum shifted in the Spurs favor after Smart made that bad pass.

Game of runs!

That bad Smart pass didn't decide the game, the Spurs were already on a run before that. They were already up 7 at one point, then proceeded to go away from what got them the lead in the first place, bringing in the ice-cold Horford and Brown to replace Kanter and Grant who had hustled us back into the lead, Schroeder making some bad offensive plays, and the team going away from Tatum when he was feeling it. The Smart turnover was just one of the many bad things they did that eventually snowballed into a (deserved) loss.

Exactly the turning point. Momentum breaker. JT was hot and carrying the team, kanter and grant was there to hustle and do the dirty works. Bringing in AL and Brown cold, the reverted back to my turn, your turn offense.

[Fierce1]

The bad pass by Smart was not the deciding factor, but it was a factor.

Common sense tells us why force the pass when there was 14 seconds left on the shot clock and the Celts were leading by 1 point.

There was also no angle on that pass because there were only 2 possible outcomes, either it hits Horford's knee or it gets picked off.

You guys really think that Smart will not make mistakes like that in the playoffs?

Imagine if the Celts lose a game in the playoffs because Smart screwed up.

We all know Smart has this tendency to screw up.

So why allow him to screw up?

Part of the problem is the coach because he's allowing Smart to screw up.

Ime will get fired if losses like this keep happening.

[Ill News]

That bad Smart pass didn't decide the game, the Spurs were already on a run before that. They were already up 7 at one point, then proceeded to go away from what got them the lead in the first place, bringing in the ice-cold Horford and Brown to replace Kanter and Grant who had hustled us back into the lead, Schroeder making some bad offensive plays, and the team going away from Tatum when he was feeling it. The Smart turnover was just one of the many bad things they did that eventually snowballed into a (deserved) loss.

Yeah, you're right, it was only one of many bad things.

But here's the thing, Marcus Smart is still making bad decisions.

It's been going on for years!

Back in 2019-20, Celts were #3 seed and were on pace for 50 wins until the pandemic happened.

What's the difference between that team and this season's team?

Marcus Smart was not a starter and not given the role of running the team.

Although it was Kemba at PG, Hayward was playing a lot of Point Forward.

What happened after Hayward left?

Smart became a starter and given a bigger role.

We all know what happened last season and this season is looking like a repeat of last season even when the Celts have a new coach.

Although I agree that Smart has glaring flaws, I'm not gonna resort to bashing him.

Smart's played extremely well for us this season. Granted, I wasn't able to watch much of the first few weeks, but from the games I've seen (especially during our 8-3 stretch) he's been a great playmaker, better than Schroeder oftentimes. He's no longer jacking up threes indiscriminately, it seems he knows how to pick his spots now. Tonight was one of his bad games, but nothing he did really stood out as egregiously bad. Bottom line is, I've liked his play this season so far. It seems like he's finally turned into the high-level utility guy that I always wanted him to be, someone who defends well all game, comes up with timely defensive stops, make plays for our main weapons, and thrives as an opportunistic scorer.

This loss to the Spurs was bad, but I won't panic just yet. The re-entry of Brown, a HUGE piece of their offense, is forcing them to adjust from what they've been doing during their 8-3 stretch. But they do need to start games with more urgency.

[Fierce1]

Although I agree that Smart has glaring flaws, I'm not gonna resort to bashing him.

Smart's played extremely well for us this season. Granted, I wasn't able to watch much of the first few weeks, but from the games I've seen (especially during our 8-3 stretch) he's been a great playmaker, better than Schroeder oftentimes. He's no longer jacking up threes indiscriminately, it seems he knows how to pick his spots now. Tonight was one of his bad games, but nothing he did really stood out as egregiously bad. Bottom line is, I've liked his play this season so far. It seems like he's finally turned into the high-level utility guy that I always wanted him to be, someone who defends well all game, comes up with timely defensive stops, make plays for our main weapons, and thrives as an opportunistic scorer.

This loss to the Spurs was bad, but I won't panic just yet. The re-entry of Brown, a HUGE piece of their offense, is forcing them to adjust from what they've been doing during their 8-3 stretch. But they do need to start games with more urgency.

No doubt Smart has been playing great basketball of late.

But early in the season, Smart was horrible!

The problem with slow starts is the Celts shoot the ball poorly.
This happened against Brooklyn and the Spurs.

If the Celts want to avoid slow starts then the coach needs to shake up the lineup.

Why not start Schroder instead of Smart?

Smart is at his best when he's a 6th man.

[Ill News]

Although I agree that Smart has glaring flaws, I'm not gonna resort to bashing him.

Smart's played extremely well for us this season. Granted, I wasn't able to watch much of the first few weeks, but from the games I've seen (especially during our 8-3 stretch) he's been a great playmaker, better than Schroeder oftentimes. He's no longer jacking up threes indiscriminately, it seems he knows how to pick his spots now. Tonight was one of his bad games, but nothing he did really stood out as egregiously bad. Bottom line is, I've liked his play this season so far. It seems like he's finally turned into the high-level utility guy that I always wanted him to be, someone who defends well all game, comes up with timely defensive stops, make plays for our main weapons, and thrives as an opportunistic scorer.

This loss to the Spurs was bad, but I won't panic just yet. The re-entry of Brown, a HUGE piece of their offense, is forcing them to adjust from what they've been doing during their 8-3 stretch. But they do need to start games with more urgency.

No doubt Smart has been playing great basketball of late.

But early in the season, Smart was horrible!

The problem with slow starts is the Celts shoot the ball poorly.
This happened against Brooklyn and the Spurs.

If the Celts want to avoid slow starts then the coach needs to shake up the lineup.

Why not start Schroder instead of Smart?

Smart is at his best when he's a 6th man.

I don't think starting Schroeder is the answer. He might take shots away from Tatum and Brown, which will screw up the offense even more.

The key is for the Jays to figure out how to play off each other. They still haven't figured out how to coexist on the offensive end; they're still caught in a my turn, your turn kind of offense, with one just standing in the corner while the other operates. They don't know how to leverage the threat of their presence to make it easier for the other, which would put more pressure on the defense. Which is maddening because they were averaging 50+ as a duo last season, and they were great together in 2020 as well...

I'm just about ready to concede that Brown needs to be traded...I'll always admire him for working extremely hard to become the player he is now, but his skills now seem to overlap with Tatum's and it's hindering the whole team. If they still can't maximize playing with each other, a change needs to be made, and it'll most likely be Brown getting traded because he's the lesser player.