Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread

[bucknersrevenge]

Remember Hield sucks defensively - his defensive rating this year is a career low, I think - and he's getting paid to shoot 43 percent from 3, not 38.

Our team defense can support the tradeoff IMO and the spacing he would provide would be such a benefit to the Jay's. The boost in efficiency he would add on offense would allow to set up our defense after a made basket more often. Again, only 3 players have hit more 3's off the catch this year than him. He is prolific at what he does.

He's been trending down as a shooter for three years - is it just because he's upped his volume?

Eric Gordon would cost less and I think his deal's shorter, he's at 45 percent from range this year. Barnes is 42 percent. Doug Mcdermott costs less in assets and in dollars, I'd even gamble on Coby White over Hield.

Buddy has name recognition and if he were hitting 42 percent, he'd have a lot of gravity. He isn't, plus bad defense, plus bad money. He's been out of the mix in Sacramento since last year, that's the kind of situation other teams pounce on for a good player. And people forget he's 29 already.

As of right now, trending on lower volume than the last 2 years. Being out of the mix in Sacramento doesn't mean that much to me for a franchise run as poorly as that one. Every player on that team who CAN be moved is ready to leave. They jerk around all their players. It's the middle of a pandemic. There are enough mitigating factors for me not to be concerned about him shooting 4% lower than that number halfway through a dumpster fire of a season on a bad team going nowhere. As for him being 29, you say that like it's a bad thing. That's one of the things I like about him. Right in his prime and not another young player who doesn't know how to play.

All of your alternatives are older players too for that matter. Not that I dislike any of them because I don't. I'd take any of those guys too. Just don't go around expecting them to be any better defensively. You wanna say you don't like Buddy's salary, fine. I don't think it's really a big deal, but fine. You wanna quibble about a few percentage points, whatever. Again, we're looking for shooters and he is most certainly a shooter and a prolific one at that. But don't throw me any arguments about defense or age. Those dogs won't hunt. But for the sake of settling this positively, I would 100% take any of those other options as well.

[Marvel]

Trade who?

[MagicBagley18]

Our team defense can support the tradeoff IMO and the spacing he would provide would be such a benefit to the Jay's. The boost in efficiency he would add on offense would allow to set up our defense after a made basket more often. Again, only 3 players have hit more 3's off the catch this year than him. He is prolific at what he does.

He's been trending down as a shooter for three years - is it just because he's upped his volume?

Eric Gordon would cost less and I think his deal's shorter, he's at 45 percent from range this year. Barnes is 42 percent. Doug Mcdermott costs less in assets and in dollars, I'd even gamble on Coby White over Hield.

Buddy has name recognition and if he were hitting 42 percent, he'd have a lot of gravity. He isn't, plus bad defense, plus bad money. He's been out of the mix in Sacramento since last year, that's the kind of situation other teams pounce on for a good player. And people forget he's 29 already.

As of right now, trending on lower volume than the last 2 years. Being out of the mix in Sacramento doesn't mean that much to me for a franchise run as poorly as that one. Every player on that team who CAN be moved is ready to leave. They jerk around all their players. It's the middle of a pandemic. There are enough mitigating factors for me not to be concerned about him shooting 4% lower than that number halfway through a dumpster fire of a season on a bad team going nowhere. As for him being 29, you say that like it's a bad thing. That's one of the things I like about him. Right in his prime and not another young player who doesn't know how to play.

All of your alternatives are older players too for that matter. Not that I dislike any of them because I don't. I'd take any of those guys too. Just don't go around expecting them to be any better defensively. You wanna say you don't like Buddy's salary, fine. I don't think it's really a big deal, but fine. You wanna quibble about a few percentage points, whatever. Again, we're looking for shooters and he is most certainly a shooter and a prolific one at that. But don't throw me any arguments about defense or age. Those dogs won't hunt. But for the sake of settling this positively, I would 100% take any of those other options as well.

Don’t really care one way or the other if we get him or not but the contract difference is minimal at best. Buddy has a decreasing contract (22,20,18) where Eric Gordon’s goes up (18,19 & 20 which is non guaranteed) tho the last isn’t guaranteed. Also agree you can’t knock buddy’s age and then suggest Eric Gordon whose years older.

If those are my options I easily take hield. Gordon’s not gonna defend either

[BostonCouchGM]

Couple more details from Fischer-

* Magic: Orlando is said to be asking for first-round picks in return for each of Terrence Ross, Gary Harris and Mo Bamba. Rival teams are optimistic those prices may drop to two second-rounders, as the Magic ultimately accepted for Evan Fournier last deadline.

* Bulls: In Chicago, Coby White is believed to be available ahead of his impending rookie extension conversations this offseason.

No idea the price for Coby White but he's interesting. Don't think we have a salary match or a need for any of the Orlando guys, but wonder if sweetening Horford's contract could get Harris/Bamba.. both going into free agency, Mo gets a tryout.

I’d trade stuff for Mo Bamba. Can people quickly convince me that’s a bad idea?

I think teams and fans are way too quick to write off bigs if they struggle early in their careers. They take longer to develop. Bamba dealt with injuries that hampered his development then they had a regime change which is never good for young players. He's still just 23 y/o and finally getting minutes and his production has been good. 10-8-2 33% from three (4 attempts). People have to remember, he's been playing with kids or scrubs his entire time with that awful franchise. It's next to impossible for these kids in these situations. We can't even find developmental minutes for Pritchard, Nesmith and Langford and we're supposedly well run. It would be typical Magic buffoonery to trade Bamba. But let's be real, Ime wouldn't play him so what's the point of us getting him? I'd like for OKC to get him. I think he'd be given a chance to play there and reward them for it. Or, NOP, should they choose to blow it up and trade Valanciunas.

[Curmudgeon]

What's the point of making trades at all? Even if Stevens does a masterful job, the players he brings in will not get many touches. We already have enough pick setters, but I suppose we could use more offensive rebounding.

[Andrew McCeltic]

He's been trending down as a shooter for three years - is it just because he's upped his volume?

Eric Gordon would cost less and I think his deal's shorter, he's at 45 percent from range this year. Barnes is 42 percent. Doug Mcdermott costs less in assets and in dollars, I'd even gamble on Coby White over Hield.

Buddy has name recognition and if he were hitting 42 percent, he'd have a lot of gravity. He isn't, plus bad defense, plus bad money. He's been out of the mix in Sacramento since last year, that's the kind of situation other teams pounce on for a good player. And people forget he's 29 already.

As of right now, trending on lower volume than the last 2 years. Being out of the mix in Sacramento doesn't mean that much to me for a franchise run as poorly as that one. Every player on that team who CAN be moved is ready to leave. They jerk around all their players. It's the middle of a pandemic. There are enough mitigating factors for me not to be concerned about him shooting 4% lower than that number halfway through a dumpster fire of a season on a bad team going nowhere. As for him being 29, you say that like it's a bad thing. That's one of the things I like about him. Right in his prime and not another young player who doesn't know how to play.

All of your alternatives are older players too for that matter. Not that I dislike any of them because I don't. I'd take any of those guys too. Just don't go around expecting them to be any better defensively. You wanna say you don't like Buddy's salary, fine. I don't think it's really a big deal, but fine. You wanna quibble about a few percentage points, whatever. Again, we're looking for shooters and he is most certainly a shooter and a prolific one at that. But don't throw me any arguments about defense or age. Those dogs won't hunt. But for the sake of settling this positively, I would 100% take any of those other options as well.

Don’t really care one way or the other if we get him or not but the contract difference is minimal at best. Buddy has a decreasing contract (22,20,18) where Eric Gordon’s goes up (18,19 & 20 which is non guaranteed) tho the last isn’t guaranteed. Also agree you can’t knock buddy’s age and then suggest Eric Gordon whose years older.

If those are my options I easily take hield. Gordon’s not gonna defend either

I don't actually WANT Gordon - he's older, injury prone, and also bad defensively - I just think he's a better value proposition than Hield because his contract's a year shorter, he's an elite shooter right now and Hield isn't. Barnes and McDermott (cheaper) are, too. I don't think any of them make enough of a difference for us to give up value, but any combination of Horford/Schroeder/Juancho outgoing that gets us under the tax I'd do for Barnes or Mcdermott.

Hield's shooting .380 from three this season. Jaylen's at .375. Pritchard (also having a down year) is .375. Josh is .406, makes 12 million a year and plays defense. We don't have a shortage of 2-guards who can shoot, and 20 million for a guy at Jaylen's level isn't going to have a huge impact on spacing.

Replacing Horford with Barnes would be big, Al is down to .280 this year - that's worse than Smart! His decline in three point shooting has gone under the radar all season. That's an issue for this team. And Tatum is at .329! Worse than Schroeder. He's not providing the same spacing this year, he doesn't have the same gravity. Hopefully it's not permanent.

But we need shooting from the 1 and the 4. Even Juancho's a career .346 and he doesn't play.

It's not like I think Hield's not a pretty good shooter, but salary commitment, age/upside, defense.. all of that matters a lot. It's a short-sighted impulse buy imo.

[Curmudgeon]

The reason Horford plays is that someone has to pass the ball. He brings very little else to the table at this point on offense. On defense he's in the right place, but his lateral mobility is poor.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Couple more details from Fischer-



No idea the price for Coby White but he's interesting. Don't think we have a salary match or a need for any of the Orlando guys, but wonder if sweetening Horford's contract could get Harris/Bamba.. both going into free agency, Mo gets a tryout.

I’d trade stuff for Mo Bamba. Can people quickly convince me that’s a bad idea?

I think teams and fans are way too quick to write off bigs if they struggle early in their careers. They take longer to develop. Bamba dealt with injuries that hampered his development then they had a regime change which is never good for young players. He's still just 23 y/o and finally getting minutes and his production has been good. 10-8-2 33% from three (4 attempts). People have to remember, he's been playing with kids or scrubs his entire time with that awful franchise. It's next to impossible for these kids in these situations. We can't even find developmental minutes for Pritchard, Nesmith and Langford and we're supposedly well run. It would be typical Magic buffoonery to trade Bamba. But let's be real, Ime wouldn't play him so what's the point of us getting him? I'd like for OKC to get him. I think he'd be given a chance to play there and reward them for it. Or, NOP, should they choose to blow it up and trade Valanciunas.

I see Presti trying to get him too. But there's always been buzz he doesn't work hard and only plays basketball because he's tall. He's a solid counting stats guy but he still sucks. Not as bad as Bagley, a little closer to Reddish. But a hard player to invest any money in - even 2/24 or 3/36 is only something a team like OKC can pull off.

[Andrew McCeltic]

The reason Horford plays is that someone has to pass the ball. He brings very little else to the table at this point on offense. On defense he's in the right place, but his lateral mobility is poor.

Everyone loves him, he's a pro, he's smart, he's talented.. but his drop-off from .368 last year and .350 in Philly to .279 now is hugely impactful. A stretch four or five is mandatory for everyone but Golden State.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I know I'm harping on it, but no one would have looked at this team in October and predicted we'd be 24th in 3 point fgp in mid January. That's not the team Brad put together. We were tenth in the league last year, last year's team would be fifth best this season.

You were hoping Josh and Grant would bounce back (they've exceeded expectations), you thought you might get something from Romeo (who's faded) and Nesmith (still busting). But no one expected Al and Tatum to drop off like this.

[Andrew McCeltic]

If we had Hield taking Schroeder's minutes and shots, we'd lose DS's drives but might be marginally better. It's not a difference maker. Another shooting wing doesn't help us - Fournier didn't. Barnes, because he can play the 4, might do something.

[hugepatsfan]

If ownership is willing to start the luxury tax years this year rather than ducking the tax:

Horford/Hernangomez/Schroder/2022 1st to SAC for Barnes and Hield.

Would need to follow up with trading Romeo and/or Nesmith for a backup 5 better than Freedom.

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / Hield
Tatum / J-Rich
Barnes / G Williams
R Williams / backup from trade

Ime would need to make sure Pritchard/Hield are separated to save the defense. I actually like the way it would work with Barnes off the bench too though:

Smart / Pritchard
Hield / J-Rich
Brown / Barnes
Tatum / G Williams
R Williams / backup from trade

The 4 man group of Smart/Brown/Tatum/R Williams has played well when healthy. The other 5 guys in this rotation excluding the backup center (Hield, Barnes, J-Rich, G Williams, Pritchard) are all shooting at lest 36% from 3 this year. Hield and Pritchard are the ones below 40% actually and they're probably the best shooters of that bunch. (To be fair, J-Rich at 40% is due for regression and G Williams' 42% is on low volume.)

If you put great spacing like that around Brown and Tatum those passes get easier. Defenses can't clog the lane on them the same.

[bucknersrevenge]

If we had Hield taking Schroeder's minutes and shots, we'd lose DS's drives but might be marginally better. It's not a difference maker. Another shooting wing doesn't help us - Fournier didn't. Barnes, because he can play the 4, might do something.

In my dream of dreams, Tatum goes back to the 4 where he had his best production 2 years ago. He's a matchup nightmare when bigger guys are trying to guard him. He's the "stretch 4". Playing him there with Rob creates way more space to drive when the 2 biggest guys on the other team have to come out to the FT line extended to guard their man. We'd play faster and with more pace with JT at the 4. You said we have depth at guard. If that's a strength we should be using it, not IGNORING it. An insightful coach would tailor his offense to the skills of the players he has around him, not try to drive square pegs into round holes every night and then blame the pegs for being square.

I think Fournier would've helped more had he not been so affected by Covid. And had NYK not been so willing to pay as much, maybe he would've. Though he's not doing so well in New York now (except against our pathetic defense). There is ALWAYS a place to fit in reliable shooting. ALWAYS. And this is where a shooter like Hield, or Gordon or Dougie McBuckets or Barnes could help the spacing. There's no rule that says JT has to stay at SF and in fact he's been a worse player historically when he does.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Another sharp night from Bagley:

Watch on YouTube

He's elevating himself into that Reddish tier, disappointing young guy who might still turn out good, except he's a free agent this summer. Kings could end up keeping him.

[Andrew McCeltic]

If we had Hield taking Schroeder's minutes and shots, we'd lose DS's drives but might be marginally better. It's not a difference maker. Another shooting wing doesn't help us - Fournier didn't. Barnes, because he can play the 4, might do something.

In my dream of dreams, Tatum goes back to the 4 where he had his best production 2 years ago. He's a matchup nightmare when bigger guys are trying to guard him. He's the "stretch 4". Playing him there with Rob creates way more space to drive when the 2 biggest guys on the other team have to come out to the FT line extended to guard their man. We'd play faster and with more pace with JT at the 4. You said we have depth at guard. If that's a strength we should be using it, not IGNORING it. An insightful coach would tailor his offense to the skills of the players he has around him, not try to drive square pegs into round holes every night and then blame the pegs for being square.

I think Fournier would've helped more had he not been so affected by Covid. And had NYK not been so willing to pay as much, maybe he would've. Though he's not doing so well in New York now (except against our pathetic defense). There is ALWAYS a place to fit in reliable shooting. ALWAYS. And this is where a shooter like Hield, or Gordon or Dougie McBuckets or Barnes could help the spacing. There's no rule that says JT has to stay at SF and in fact he's been a worse player historically when he does.

How are you going to distribute minutes with Tatum starting at the 4? Those are minutes that could go to Al and Grant, neither of them can play the 3. You want to start Josh, PP, Dennis, or Romeo? Or, I guess, Hield..

I'd love to know the logic for putting him back at the 3 this year.

Smart/Josh/Jaylen/Tatum/Rob has played 23 minutes together all season - great net rating, 33.8, but small sample size -

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738&sort=MIN&dir=1

[Bohemian]

This is bad.

Fire Ime.

Do some moves, Brad.

[BillessuR6]

Do not see the point in making any big trades...

First move to make is to fire Udoka but that will not happen for at least another season...

So, just trade Schröder for a 2nd rounder and that is it...this team is not going anywhere anyway...

[Bohemian]

Do not see the point in making any big trades...

First move to make is to fire Udoka but that will not happen for at least another season...

So, just trade Schröder for a 2nd rounder and that is it...this team is not going anywhere anyway...

Why wait? After 43 games we can see this season is lost. The best scenario is losing in the first round of the playoffs, most likely someone will eliminate us in the play in.

Don´t see the point in waiting now.

[bucknersrevenge]

If we had Hield taking Schroeder's minutes and shots, we'd lose DS's drives but might be marginally better. It's not a difference maker. Another shooting wing doesn't help us - Fournier didn't. Barnes, because he can play the 4, might do something.

In my dream of dreams, Tatum goes back to the 4 where he had his best production 2 years ago. He's a matchup nightmare when bigger guys are trying to guard him. He's the "stretch 4". Playing him there with Rob creates way more space to drive when the 2 biggest guys on the other team have to come out to the FT line extended to guard their man. We'd play faster and with more pace with JT at the 4. You said we have depth at guard. If that's a strength we should be using it, not IGNORING it. An insightful coach would tailor his offense to the skills of the players he has around him, not try to drive square pegs into round holes every night and then blame the pegs for being square.

I think Fournier would've helped more had he not been so affected by Covid. And had NYK not been so willing to pay as much, maybe he would've. Though he's not doing so well in New York now (except against our pathetic defense). There is ALWAYS a place to fit in reliable shooting. ALWAYS. And this is where a shooter like Hield, or Gordon or Dougie McBuckets or Barnes could help the spacing. There's no rule that says JT has to stay at SF and in fact he's been a worse player historically when he does.

How are you going to distribute minutes with Tatum starting at the 4? Those are minutes that could go to Al and Grant, neither of them can play the 3. You want to start Josh, PP, Dennis, or Romeo? Or, I guess, Hield..

I'd love to know the logic for putting him back at the 3 this year.

Smart/Josh/Jaylen/Tatum/Rob has played 23 minutes together all season - great net rating, 33.8, but small sample size -

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738&sort=MIN&dir=1

Those 2 play less. Al is not a starter IMO anymore. He backs up Rob. If JT averages 36mpg, I think 30 of them should be at the 4. That leaves 18 mins for Al and Grant. Al backs up Rob for roughly 19 minutes. He steals another 6 min at the 4 if necessary or if he has his shot really going, it's a strict platoon with Rob. Grant backs up JT with whatever is left. Sorry, I'm not breaking my back to give Al or Grant minutes right now. Especially Al who may not be long for this. I'm going with the depth of talent, where JT has historically played his best and strategically, where he can maximize his advantage.

[MagicBagley18]

As of right now, trending on lower volume than the last 2 years. Being out of the mix in Sacramento doesn't mean that much to me for a franchise run as poorly as that one. Every player on that team who CAN be moved is ready to leave. They jerk around all their players. It's the middle of a pandemic. There are enough mitigating factors for me not to be concerned about him shooting 4% lower than that number halfway through a dumpster fire of a season on a bad team going nowhere. As for him being 29, you say that like it's a bad thing. That's one of the things I like about him. Right in his prime and not another young player who doesn't know how to play.

All of your alternatives are older players too for that matter. Not that I dislike any of them because I don't. I'd take any of those guys too. Just don't go around expecting them to be any better defensively. You wanna say you don't like Buddy's salary, fine. I don't think it's really a big deal, but fine. You wanna quibble about a few percentage points, whatever. Again, we're looking for shooters and he is most certainly a shooter and a prolific one at that. But don't throw me any arguments about defense or age. Those dogs won't hunt. But for the sake of settling this positively, I would 100% take any of those other options as well.

Don’t really care one way or the other if we get him or not but the contract difference is minimal at best. Buddy has a decreasing contract (22,20,18) where Eric Gordon’s goes up (18,19 & 20 which is non guaranteed) tho the last isn’t guaranteed. Also agree you can’t knock buddy’s age and then suggest Eric Gordon whose years older.

If those are my options I easily take hield. Gordon’s not gonna defend either

I don't actually WANT Gordon - he's older, injury prone, and also bad defensively - I just think he's a better value proposition than Hield because his contract's a year shorter, he's an elite shooter right now and Hield isn't. Barnes and McDermott (cheaper) are, too. I don't think any of them make enough of a difference for us to give up value, but any combination of Horford/Schroeder/Juancho outgoing that gets us under the tax I'd do for Barnes or Mcdermott.

Hield's shooting .380 from three this season. Jaylen's at .375. Pritchard (also having a down year) is .375. Josh is .406, makes 12 million a year and plays defense. We don't have a shortage of 2-guards who can shoot, and 20 million for a guy at Jaylen's level isn't going to have a huge impact on spacing.

Replacing Horford with Barnes would be big, Al is down to .280 this year - that's worse than Smart! His decline in three point shooting has gone under the radar all season. That's an issue for this team. And Tatum is at .329! Worse than Schroeder. He's not providing the same spacing this year, he doesn't have the same gravity. Hopefully it's not permanent.

But we need shooting from the 1 and the 4. Even Juancho's a career .346 and he doesn't play.

It's not like I think Hield's not a pretty good shooter, but salary commitment, age/upside, defense.. all of that matters a lot. It's a short-sighted impulse buy imo.

I gotcha. Makes sense. I’m not too passionate about it again like I said I guess I just kind of disagree saying buddy isn’t an elite shooter simply because he shoots 38% from 3 this year (which is still very good). Shooting #’s are down all over the league for whatever reason for many players - hell look at Tatum and other stars.

For his career he is a 40% shooter from 3 and I believe rates great on catch and shoots- players need to know where he’s at on the floor all times and coaches emphasis that. Imo he would most definitely provide gravity and while you can say PP and others provide that buddy imo doesn’t lack the body size that a pp does & is way more of a threat.

When hields floated around 5-8 3 attempts per game he has been 40+ percent. the last 2 years he’s been closer to 10 attempts so it’s natural with slightly more volume his percentages drop- slightly. The kings also don’t have the jays specifically a guy like Tatum who commands such attention on the court.