The Real Problem -- Lack of a True Point Guard

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

Once everyone started to share the ball and guys were making quick decisions with the ball, having no traditional PG was no longer a problem.

[sam_I_am]

Read on Twitter

Once everyone started to share the ball and guys were making quick decisions with the ball, having no traditional PG was no longer a problem.

Fascinating reading early season takes - except for mine…..my account was hacked …. I swear.

Tatum and Brown were not sharing the ball making it seem that the team needed a traditional penetrate and dish PG and that maybe Smart was more effective as sixth man/combo guard. In reality, Smart was the perfect PG but he needed to unlock Tatum and Brown and Tatum and Brown needed to unlock Smart. Turns out the 3 together are even better than we could have imagined once they figured it out.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

Once everyone started to share the ball and guys were making quick decisions with the ball, having no traditional PG was no longer a problem.

Fascinating reading early season takes - except for mine…..my account was hacked …. I swear.

Tatum and Brown were not sharing the ball making it seem that the team needed a traditional penetrate and dish PG and that maybe Smart was more effective as sixth man/combo guard. In reality, Smart was the perfect PG but he needed to unlock Tatum and Brown and Tatum and Brown needed to unlock Smart. Turns out the 3 together are even better than we could have imagined once they figured it out.

The buy-in from everyone (esp the Jays) was key to make the new offensive approach work. Ime knew it would take some time. I think it was mid-December when he really laid it into the players and showed them what they were doing wrong (70+ clip film session after the awful West road trip).

When players saw that the change was resulting in wins (not to mention fun), they hardly looked back. Then replacing Schroder/Richardson/Kanter with better fits in PP/White/Theis supercharged that already blossoming offense. Looking back, we didn't really need a conventional PG who would dominate the ball since Tatum carries much of the playmaking responsibility (and has become great at it). Just needed someone who can set the table, control pace, and act as a connector on offense.

[Scoonie]

Read on Twitter

Once everyone started to share the ball and guys were making quick decisions with the ball, having no traditional PG was no longer a problem.

That is an amazing stat, and I'm very happy that I was wrong about Marcus being a point guard. I was very wrong!

Having him at point guard kills two birds with one stone: Gives us playmaking as well as elite defense. And having Derrick White being able to back him and also play off-ball makes a huge difference as well.

[Parliament10]

Read on Twitter

Once everyone started to share the ball and guys were making quick decisions with the ball, having no traditional PG was no longer a problem.

That is an amazing stat, and I'm very happy that I was wrong about Marcus being a point guard. I was very wrong!

Having him at point guard kills two birds with one stone: Gives us playmaking as well as elite defense. And having Derrick White being able to back him and also play off-ball makes a huge difference as well.

My Favorite Active NBA Player, Marcus Smart, surprised me.
I just didn't think that he was Starting PG material. -- And he remained a Defensive King.

[31to6]

Read on Twitter

Once everyone started to share the ball and guys were making quick decisions with the ball, having no traditional PG was no longer a problem.

That is an amazing stat, and I'm very happy that I was wrong about Marcus being a point guard. I was very wrong!

Having him at point guard kills two birds with one stone: Gives us playmaking as well as elite defense. And having Derrick White being able to back him and also play off-ball makes a huge difference as well.

My Favorite Active NBA Player, Marcus Smart, surprised me.
I just didn't think that he was Starting PG material. -- And he remained a Defensive King.

there were some -- not many -- who advocated for never signing Kemba Walker, and just letting Smart play point next to the Jays.
maybe we would have gotten where we are now sooner, but maybe not, so whatever. At least we didn't sign Nikola Vucevic:)

[zoyathedestroya]

That is an amazing stat, and I'm very happy that I was wrongN about Marcus being a point guard. I was very wrong!

Having him at point guard kills two birds with one stone: Gives us playmaking as well as elite defense. And having Derrick White being able to back him and also play off-ball makes a huge difference as well.

My Favorite Active NBA Player, Marcus Smart, surprised me.
I just didn't think that he was Starting PG material. -- And he remained a Defensive King.

there were some -- not many -- who advocated for never signing Kemba Walker, and just letting Smart play point next to the Jays.
maybe we would have gotten where we are now sooner, but maybe not, so whatever. At least we didn't sign Nikola Vucevic:)

No one wins in the Kemba vs Vucevic debate haha.

EDIT: Okay, not exactly. Magic did get a 1st and WCJ for Vuc. We had to give up a first for Kemba.

[zoyathedestroya]

Don't get this twisted though, none of this happens without Tatum taking yet another leap and becoming an even more lethal offensive threat and JB fulfilling his role as an excellent Robin. So I'm not gonna pretend here thinking there's no other starting PG that could do Smart's job (or even do it better) but his combo of size, grit, DPOY-ness, and comprehensive knowledge of the team's schemes makes him the right man for the job.

[BostonCouchGM]

Having suffered through half the season, it's super clear to me that this team's biggest issue by far is lack of a true PG. Jayson and Jaylen are forced to not just score but also create for other players, which they are still learning how to do well. The other guys aren't great shooters to start with, but it's made worse by the fact that we don't have a PG to set the table for them and run real plays. This especially kills us at crunch time/in the 4th quarter, and is part of the reason we've been so bad in those situations. Just asking for "more ball movement" is not enough.

The lack of a true PG is our most glaring issue and adding one could help us in a major way and put everyone in the right place so to speak. And a quick note for those who want to defend Smart/Schroder/Pritchard -- Smart is a great 6th man/defensive role player, but he is playing off the ball the majority of the time. He's too careless with the ball. Schroder is ball dominant and has a score-first mentality. Pritchard is really more of an undersized SG, or at least he's used that way.

Ok, now on to the point of this thread: let's do Brad's job and find who we could realistically acquire to fill this role. First, a list of some possible/quasi-realistic targets that we could get without moving Brown or Tatum (who I FIRMLY believe are not the issue):

Rotational Guys:
-Tyus Jones (Memphis) / 1 year, $8.4M
-Jalen Brunson (Dallas) / 1 year, $1.8M
-Cam Payne (Phoenix) / 3 years, $19M
-Patrick Beverly (Minnesota) / 1 year, $14.3M
-Goran Dragic (Toronto) / 1 year, $19.4M
-Coby White (Chicago) / 3 years, $13M, last year is qualifying offer at $10M
-Cory Joseph (Detroit) / 2 years, $12.5M, last year is player option

Potential Starters:
-Josh Hart (New Orleans) / 3 years, $38M deal, last year is player option
-Devonte Graham (New Orleans) / 4 years, $47M
-De'Aaron Fox (Sacramento) / 5 years, $163M (would love Haliburton but I think it would take Jaylen or Tatum)
-Malcolm Brogdon (Indiana) / 4 years, $89M
-Spencer Dinwiddie (Washington) / 3 years, $54M
-D'Angelo Russell (Minnesota) / 2 years, $61M
-Tyrese Maxey (Philadelphia) / 4 years, $16M (rookie deal with team option year 3, qualifying year 4)
-Eric Bledsoe (Clippers) / 2 years, $37.5M
-Reggie Jackson (Clippers) / 2 years, $21.6M

High-Risk/Unknown Upside:
-John Wall (Houston) / 2 years, $92M, last year is player option that he is DEFINITELY taking
-CJ McCollum (Phoenix) / 3 years, $100M (I know he's not a PG but we could give it a shot, and Portland may be desperate to make a change)
-Ben Simmons (Philadelphia) / 4 years, $147M (would have to take Harris too, but putting it out there for discussion)
-Russell Westbrook (Lakers) / 2 years, $91M, last year is player option that he is DEFINITELY taking

Next post I will dig into each of these groups and talk about some guys I'd like to target and what possible trades might look like. Would love to hear your thoughts on this list and also if I left anyone out who should be in here! Mods: I know there's already a trade thread but I feel this is a very specific and focused thread on our most important need vs. every team and every rumor, so hopefully we can keep this one separate.

Great post. Lots of awful takes throughout this thread. Smart is objectively not a true PG. Playing a bunch of injured or tanking teams masked this issue. The Warriors exposed it. Since White ain’t it and Ime doesn’t like Pritchard we badly need Smart back to his 6th man role. It’s not JUST that Smart isn’t a table setter it’s also that he is such on non-great to shoot that Warriors could collapse in Tatum and disrupt passing lanes which led to turnovers. Once every ten games Smart has a hot shooting night and when that happens we’re damn near unbeatable. Paying a 6th man so much is a tough pill to swallow. Yes he’s elite defensively but a lot of that is negated by him being a liability on offense

[jfs1000d]

Having suffered through half the season, it's super clear to me that this team's biggest issue by far is lack of a true PG. Jayson and Jaylen are forced to not just score but also create for other players, which they are still learning how to do well. The other guys aren't great shooters to start with, but it's made worse by the fact that we don't have a PG to set the table for them and run real plays. This especially kills us at crunch time/in the 4th quarter, and is part of the reason we've been so bad in those situations. Just asking for "more ball movement" is not enough.

The lack of a true PG is our most glaring issue and adding one could help us in a major way and put everyone in the right place so to speak. And a quick note for those who want to defend Smart/Schroder/Pritchard -- Smart is a great 6th man/defensive role player, but he is playing off the ball the majority of the time. He's too careless with the ball. Schroder is ball dominant and has a score-first mentality. Pritchard is really more of an undersized SG, or at least he's used that way.

Ok, now on to the point of this thread: let's do Brad's job and find who we could realistically acquire to fill this role. First, a list of some possible/quasi-realistic targets that we could get without moving Brown or Tatum (who I FIRMLY believe are not the issue):

Rotational Guys:
-Tyus Jones (Memphis) / 1 year, $8.4M
-Jalen Brunson (Dallas) / 1 year, $1.8M
-Cam Payne (Phoenix) / 3 years, $19M
-Patrick Beverly (Minnesota) / 1 year, $14.3M
-Goran Dragic (Toronto) / 1 year, $19.4M
-Coby White (Chicago) / 3 years, $13M, last year is qualifying offer at $10M
-Cory Joseph (Detroit) / 2 years, $12.5M, last year is player option

Potential Starters:
-Josh Hart (New Orleans) / 3 years, $38M deal, last year is player option
-Devonte Graham (New Orleans) / 4 years, $47M
-De'Aaron Fox (Sacramento) / 5 years, $163M (would love Haliburton but I think it would take Jaylen or Tatum)
-Malcolm Brogdon (Indiana) / 4 years, $89M
-Spencer Dinwiddie (Washington) / 3 years, $54M
-D'Angelo Russell (Minnesota) / 2 years, $61M
-Tyrese Maxey (Philadelphia) / 4 years, $16M (rookie deal with team option year 3, qualifying year 4)
-Eric Bledsoe (Clippers) / 2 years, $37.5M
-Reggie Jackson (Clippers) / 2 years, $21.6M

High-Risk/Unknown Upside:
-John Wall (Houston) / 2 years, $92M, last year is player option that he is DEFINITELY taking
-CJ McCollum (Phoenix) / 3 years, $100M (I know he's not a PG but we could give it a shot, and Portland may be desperate to make a change)
-Ben Simmons (Philadelphia) / 4 years, $147M (would have to take Harris too, but putting it out there for discussion)
-Russell Westbrook (Lakers) / 2 years, $91M, last year is player option that he is DEFINITELY taking

Next post I will dig into each of these groups and talk about some guys I'd like to target and what possible trades might look like. Would love to hear your thoughts on this list and also if I left anyone out who should be in here! Mods: I know there's already a trade thread but I feel this is a very specific and focused thread on our most important need vs. every team and every rumor, so hopefully we can keep this one separate.

Great post. Lots of awful takes throughout this thread. Smart is objectively not a true PG. Playing a bunch of injured or tanking teams masked this issue. The Warriors exposed it. Since White ain’t it and Ime doesn’t like Pritchard we badly need Smart back to his 6th man role. It’s not JUST that Smart isn’t a table setter it’s also that he is such on non-great to shoot that Warriors could collapse in Tatum and disrupt passing lanes which led to turnovers. Once every ten games Smart has a hot shooting night and when that happens we’re damn near unbeatable. Paying a 6th man so much is a tough pill to swallow. Yes he’s elite defensively but a lot of that is negated by him being a liability on offense

Smart would be good enough if Tatum and Brown were better ball handlers. We need Tatum to handle the ball better


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marvel]

The Real Problem: No Bench.

How to Fix It: Get some guys who can put the ball in the basket

[Floody100]

Having suffered through half the season, it's super clear to me that this team's biggest issue by far is lack of a true PG. Jayson and Jaylen are forced to not just score but also create for other players, which they are still learning how to do well. The other guys aren't great shooters to start with, but it's made worse by the fact that we don't have a PG to set the table for them and run real plays. This especially kills us at crunch time/in the 4th quarter, and is part of the reason we've been so bad in those situations. Just asking for "more ball movement" is not enough.

The lack of a true PG is our most glaring issue and adding one could help us in a major way and put everyone in the right place so to speak. And a quick note for those who want to defend Smart/Schroder/Pritchard -- Smart is a great 6th man/defensive role player, but he is playing off the ball the majority of the time. He's too careless with the ball. Schroder is ball dominant and has a score-first mentality. Pritchard is really more of an undersized SG, or at least he's used that way.

Ok, now on to the point of this thread: let's do Brad's job and find who we could realistically acquire to fill this role. First, a list of some possible/quasi-realistic targets that we could get without moving Brown or Tatum (who I FIRMLY believe are not the issue):

Rotational Guys:
-Tyus Jones (Memphis) / 1 year, $8.4M
-Jalen Brunson (Dallas) / 1 year, $1.8M
-Cam Payne (Phoenix) / 3 years, $19M
-Patrick Beverly (Minnesota) / 1 year, $14.3M
-Goran Dragic (Toronto) / 1 year, $19.4M
-Coby White (Chicago) / 3 years, $13M, last year is qualifying offer at $10M
-Cory Joseph (Detroit) / 2 years, $12.5M, last year is player option

Potential Starters:
-Josh Hart (New Orleans) / 3 years, $38M deal, last year is player option
-Devonte Graham (New Orleans) / 4 years, $47M
-De'Aaron Fox (Sacramento) / 5 years, $163M (would love Haliburton but I think it would take Jaylen or Tatum)
-Malcolm Brogdon (Indiana) / 4 years, $89M
-Spencer Dinwiddie (Washington) / 3 years, $54M
-D'Angelo Russell (Minnesota) / 2 years, $61M
-Tyrese Maxey (Philadelphia) / 4 years, $16M (rookie deal with team option year 3, qualifying year 4)
-Eric Bledsoe (Clippers) / 2 years, $37.5M
-Reggie Jackson (Clippers) / 2 years, $21.6M

High-Risk/Unknown Upside:
-John Wall (Houston) / 2 years, $92M, last year is player option that he is DEFINITELY taking
-CJ McCollum (Phoenix) / 3 years, $100M (I know he's not a PG but we could give it a shot, and Portland may be desperate to make a change)
-Ben Simmons (Philadelphia) / 4 years, $147M (would have to take Harris too, but putting it out there for discussion)
-Russell Westbrook (Lakers) / 2 years, $91M, last year is player option that he is DEFINITELY taking

Next post I will dig into each of these groups and talk about some guys I'd like to target and what possible trades might look like. Would love to hear your thoughts on this list and also if I left anyone out who should be in here! Mods: I know there's already a trade thread but I feel this is a very specific and focused thread on our most important need vs. every team and every rumor, so hopefully we can keep this one separate.

Great post. Lots of awful takes throughout this thread. Smart is objectively not a true PG. Playing a bunch of injured or tanking teams masked this issue. The Warriors exposed it. Since White ain’t it and Ime doesn’t like Pritchard we badly need Smart back to his 6th man role. It’s not JUST that Smart isn’t a table setter it’s also that he is such on non-great to shoot that Warriors could collapse in Tatum and disrupt passing lanes which led to turnovers. Once every ten games Smart has a hot shooting night and when that happens we’re damn near unbeatable. Paying a 6th man so much is a tough pill to swallow. Yes he’s elite defensively but a lot of that is negated by him being a liability on offense

At least you’re consistent & don’t back down from your horrible takes.

[Parliament10]

Is this still a Thing?
Between Smart, White & Pritchard; do we really need another PG?

And if we do need a PG, then at what level?:
Starter - Rotation - Reserve - Two-Way?

[Larry_Russell]

BUt but but but Marcus sucks!

[darrendaye]

Is this still a Thing?
Between Smart, White & Pritchard; do we really need another PG?

And if we do need a PG, then at what level?:
Starter - Rotation - Reserve - Two-Way?

Break glass in case of emergency.

Let's see how much Ime can influence some subtle (and some not-so-subtle) changes in how Tatum/Smart/Brown/White play this season as playmakers before calling this.

[Jammer]

Zoya: Can you re-post Smart's Data filtered by:

Against Golden State in Playoffs (when they were "whole")
Against Miami in Playoffs (who was without Tyler Herro and at times Kyle Lowry) and Regular Season
Against Milwaukee in Playoffs (who was without Kris Middleton) and Regular Season
Against Philadelphia during the Regular Season
Against Dallas
Against Phoenix

By Full Game and 4th Quarter. Really don't care about how anyone does against the rest of the league. Need to be able to get the job done against the best teams when they have all their guys.

And despite what the numbers say, Smart is still the weakest link of the 5 starters. Can't change his damn shooting percentages relative to his opponents.

[soxfan2003]

That is an amazing stat, and I'm very happy that I was wrong about Marcus being a point guard. I was very wrong!

Having him at point guard kills two birds with one stone: Gives us playmaking as well as elite defense. And having Derrick White being able to back him and also play off-ball makes a huge difference as well.

My Favorite Active NBA Player, Marcus Smart, surprised me.
I just didn't think that he was Starting PG material. -- And he remained a Defensive King.

there were some -- not many -- who advocated for never signing Kemba Walker, and just letting Smart play point next to the Jays.
maybe we would have gotten where we are now sooner, but maybe not, so whatever. At least we didn't sign Nikola Vucevic:)

From his rookie year, I thought he could be a good to very good starting PG/combo guard as long as he got a decent 3 point shot and Celtic got enough ball handling at other positions. I made this argument on several ocassions. Even though I first watched Celtics when Tiny Archibald was the PG, there was just more seasons with Dennis Johnson and Ainge that I watched. Both of those players were more combo guards in their own way than traditional PG's or SG's. Ainge himself said this as well so it is frustrating he went down Kemba Walker route.

[Hal14]

Zoya: Can you re-post Smart's Data filtered by:

Against Golden State in Playoffs (when they were "whole")
Against Miami in Playoffs (who was without Tyler Herro and at times Kyle Lowry) and Regular Season
Against Milwaukee in Playoffs (who was without Kris Middleton) and Regular Season
Against Philadelphia during the Regular Season
Against Dallas
Against Phoenix

By Full Game and 4th Quarter. Really don't care about how anyone does against the rest of the league. Need to be able to get the job done against the best teams when they have all their guys.

And despite what the numbers say, Smart is still the weakest link of the 5 starters. Can't change his damn shooting percentages relative to his opponents.

you're weird. lol any player will have worse stats against the 5 best teams in the league, compared to full season numbers. you got an agenda, man lol

[31to6]

My Favorite Active NBA Player, Marcus Smart, surprised me.
I just didn't think that he was Starting PG material. -- And he remained a Defensive King.

there were some -- not many -- who advocated for never signing Kemba Walker, and just letting Smart play point next to the Jays.
maybe we would have gotten where we are now sooner, but maybe not, so whatever. At least we didn't sign Nikola Vucevic:)

From his rookie year, I thought he could be a good to very good starting PG/combo guard as long as he got a decent 3 point shot and Celtic got enough ball handling at other positions. I made this argument on several ocassions. Even though I first watched Celtics when Tiny Archibald was the PG, there was just more seasons with Dennis Johnson and Ainge that I watched. Both of those players were more combo guards in their own way than traditional PG's or SG's. Ainge himself said this as well so it is frustrating he went down Kemba Walker route.

21st century Dennis Johnson (Celtics version) has always been my hope for Marcus, and he almost did it this season. I remain very much onboard — two further needed areas of growth are “calling” a better game (be coach on the floor, get JB and JT or whomever their touches from certain spots when it’s obvious what’s needed/what’s working) and keep your damn composure — can’t get taken out of the game like he was a couple of times because he wanted to get into it with Jordan Poole.

But to repeat: big fan of Marcus as our point guard and I want to see them all come back hungry next year to do what they did from the Knicks game onward — and finish the job.

[zoyathedestroya]

Smart scored as much (per 100 possessions) as Jrue in their run to the Finals as the 3rd option on much better efficiency (53% TS% vs. 48% TS%) playing on one leg and without a two-time MVP as his primary*. Jrue had near 3:1 A/TO ratio, Smart near 2:1.

While I'd still advocate for the Cs to get a 3rd scorer off the bench who can also finish games for them (instead of White), Smart did perfectly fine as their PG in the recent Finals run.

*Giannis scored 50 pts in their title-clinching game against the Suns. Tatum scored 13 pts in their elimination game vs. Dubs.