I guess we're doing it the hard way again! NBA Finals Game 4 Loss 6/10 (TIED 2-2)

[GrandTheftRondo]

Active, athletic guys really mattered. Wiggins and Looney were the big +/- guys for them, Timelord for us.

Tatum was second in +/- ... and, contrary to narrative, he spent a lot of the game seriously hustling as well.

By the way, the point differential was fairly real. Warriors were up 7 before things got crazy with desperation offense, fouling, and so on.

I have a hard time believing Tatum was hustling when Wiggins dominated the glass like he did.

And it isn’t like Wiggins is Dennis Rodman either.

[Setshot33]

Since #0 worships everything Kobe,let's ask Kobe what he thinks of #0's game:

[GrandTheftRondo]

The Celtics lost this game in the first half, when they should have had a 15 point lead or more, because they were sloppy with the ball giving Golden State plenty of easy baskets. Then they were STILL sloppy with the ball at the start of the second half

Tatum, Brown and Smart make too many ill conceived passes and too many lazy passes. You could make a Highlight Reel of the All-Time Dumbest passes in the history of the league just using Tatum, Brown and Smart's body of work to date.

Tatum and Brown don't properly protect the ball when they dribble leading to strips, and are stubborn (or simply too slow to recognize) way too often to get rid of the ball when in traffic or the defense is closing down on them.

Tatum missed way too many shots that he didn't properly finish. Some lame drives where Tatum seemed more interested in drawing a foul than making the shot so the Celtics ended up with a wasted opportunity...

This game typifies why some of us have argued for a natural scoring (high efficiency shooter) guard who can defend as an upgrade to Smart or White.

Yeah I had this sinking feeling the stupid turnovers were going to burn us. Nobody was doing **** for the Warriors outside of Curry and with the crowd and momentum we had we should have been up 15-20.

As to your point about natural scoring high efficiency guard. Come on dude. Be realistic. Outside of the Celtics getting lucky in a draft, where does someone find that sort of player? That’s an all star player we would be talking about.

Offensively the Celtics problem for me is the lack of bench options they have. I would love what the 08 or 10 Celtics had. Someone like Glen Davis or Eddie House to provide some instant offence.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Another f’ing 4th qtr meltdown. Its so damn frustrating and tiresome. We never learn

The only difference between this game and all the other games is that the meltdown came in the fourth quarter and not the third.

We don't know when it's coming but it's a guarantee that every single game Boston's not going to score for 6 minutes straight

[GrandTheftRondo]

Another f’ing 4th qtr meltdown. Its so damn frustrating and tiresome. We never learn

The only difference between this game and all the other games is that the meltdown came in the fourth quarter and not the third.

We don't know when it's coming but it's a guarantee that every single game Boston's not going to score for 6 minutes straight

Games these days are very much games of runs more than they ever have been with the crazy amount of 3s taken.

The problem is the Celtics just fall in love with the three completely and seem to forget how to unlock the defence. Surely by now they would have worked out a way to calm down a bit and get back on track. You could deal with a 2-3 minute drought but it genuinely lasts 6 mins or more and seems to coincide with complaining to refs and sloppy defence.

[Jammer]

Celtics had a 43 point second half while giving up way too many easy buckets along the way (going back to the first half), and having too many empty possessions due to ill conceived offensive sets or just not finishing a play. 6 TO's by Tatum in a Finals game is inexcusable. Since we know he'd never place a bet on Golden State, it's sad to think that he is not more observant and attentive to detail. It's like a pool player seeing just two balls in front of him instead of all the balls on the table before attempting a shot.

Sub-par games by Tatum, Horford & Brown against an on fire Steph Curry and a team that's being given a lot of easy buckets was too much to weather. Smart continues to play significantly better than he has historically on this playoff run. Grant Williams and Pritchard were non-factors, but effectively a net negative based on their court time.

An alternative view:

Pts. + Rebounds + (0.5 x Assists) + Steals + (0.5 x Blocks) - Missed FGs - (0.5 x Missed Free Throws) - Turnovers - (0.5 x Fouls)

+22.5 Rob Williams III (31 minutes) 7 pts. on 3 shots, 1-2 FT, 12 Rebounds, 4 Assists, 1 Steal, 2 Blocks

+17 Jayson Tatum (43 minutes) 23 pts. on 23 shots, 3-5 FT, 11 Rebounds, 6 Assists, 1 Steal, 3 Blocks, 6 Turnovers, 3 Fouls
+15 Jaylen Brown (40 minutes) 21 pts. on 19 shots, 1-2 FT, 6 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 1 Steal, 2 Turnovers, 5 Fouls
+14.5 Marcus Smart (40 minutes) 18 pts. on 18 shots, 1-1 FT, 4 Rebounds, 5 Assists, 4 Steals, 2 Turnovers, 2 Fouls

+10 Al Horford (28 minutes) 8 pts. on 6 shots, 2-2 FT, 6 Rebounds, 4 Assists, 1 Block, 1 Turnover, 3 Fouls
+7.5 Derrick White (36 minutes) 16 pts. on 12 shots, 5-5 FT, 1 Rebound, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 3 Turnovers

+1 Grant Williams (13 minutes) 3 pts. on 2 shots, 1 Rebound, 4 Fouls
-1.5 Payton Pritchard (10 minutes) 1 pt. on 2 shots, 1-2 FT, 1 Rebound, 1 Turnover

[Jammer]

The Celtics lost this game in the first half, when they should have had a 15 point lead or more, because they were sloppy with the ball giving Golden State plenty of easy baskets. Then they were STILL sloppy with the ball at the start of the second half

Tatum, Brown and Smart make too many ill conceived passes and too many lazy passes. You could make a Highlight Reel of the All-Time Dumbest passes in the history of the league just using Tatum, Brown and Smart's body of work to date.

Tatum and Brown don't properly protect the ball when they dribble leading to strips, and are stubborn (or simply too slow to recognize) way too often to get rid of the ball when in traffic or the defense is closing down on them.

Tatum missed way too many shots that he didn't properly finish. Some lame drives where Tatum seemed more interested in drawing a foul than making the shot so the Celtics ended up with a wasted opportunity...

This game typifies why some of us have argued for a natural scoring (high efficiency shooter) guard who can defend as an upgrade to Smart or White.

Yeah I had this sinking feeling the stupid turnovers were going to burn us. Nobody was doing **** for the Warriors outside of Curry and with the crowd and momentum we had we should have been up 15-20.

As to your point about natural scoring high efficiency guard. Come on dude. Be realistic. Outside of the Celtics getting lucky in a draft, where does someone find that sort of player? That’s an all star player we would be talking about.

Offensively the Celtics problem for me is the lack of bench options they have. I would love what the 08 or 10 Celtics had. Someone like Glen Davis or Eddie House to provide some instant offence.

The guy I'm talking about would be finishing the game in place of Smart or White. That's being realistic.

[GrandTheftRondo]

The Celtics lost this game in the first half, when they should have had a 15 point lead or more, because they were sloppy with the ball giving Golden State plenty of easy baskets. Then they were STILL sloppy with the ball at the start of the second half

Tatum, Brown and Smart make too many ill conceived passes and too many lazy passes. You could make a Highlight Reel of the All-Time Dumbest passes in the history of the league just using Tatum, Brown and Smart's body of work to date.

Tatum and Brown don't properly protect the ball when they dribble leading to strips, and are stubborn (or simply too slow to recognize) way too often to get rid of the ball when in traffic or the defense is closing down on them.

Tatum missed way too many shots that he didn't properly finish. Some lame drives where Tatum seemed more interested in drawing a foul than making the shot so the Celtics ended up with a wasted opportunity...

This game typifies why some of us have argued for a natural scoring (high efficiency shooter) guard who can defend as an upgrade to Smart or White.

Yeah I had this sinking feeling the stupid turnovers were going to burn us. Nobody was doing **** for the Warriors outside of Curry and with the crowd and momentum we had we should have been up 15-20.

As to your point about natural scoring high efficiency guard. Come on dude. Be realistic. Outside of the Celtics getting lucky in a draft, where does someone find that sort of player? That’s an all star player we would be talking about.

Offensively the Celtics problem for me is the lack of bench options they have. I would love what the 08 or 10 Celtics had. Someone like Glen Davis or Eddie House to provide some instant offence.

The guy I'm talking about would be finishing the game in place of Smart or White. That's being realistic.

Name names

[Bill Bradley]

Surprisingly I’m not too disappointed as I was expecting a loss here given how the playoffs have gone. Thought the refs would play a bigger role but it was called fairly IMO. If this goes according to the pattern and narrative, Celtics win Game 5.

[NotAKnicksFan]

We are getting killed by curry, just like butler killed us and giannis killed us

Can we slow curry down a game or two , bad shooting 20-25 points???

[GrandTheftRondo]

Surprisingly I’m not too disappointed as I was expecting a loss here given how the playoffs have gone. Thought the refs would play a bigger role but it was called fairly IMO. If this goes according to the pattern and narrative, Celtics win Game 5.

Agreed but the disappointing part is for me is that the Warriors are a completely different kettle of fish at home compared to the Bucks without Middleton and the Heat.

It took a pretty crazy bunch of shooting to steal game 1.

They’re going to have to play very well to win game 5:

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around having the opportunity to go up 3-1 and scoring 3 points in 5 minutes.

The last 5 minutes of the 4th cost them a championship. That's how bad it was.

[Jammer]

Yeah I had this sinking feeling the stupid turnovers were going to burn us. Nobody was doing **** for the Warriors outside of Curry and with the crowd and momentum we had we should have been up 15-20.

As to your point about natural scoring high efficiency guard. Come on dude. Be realistic. Outside of the Celtics getting lucky in a draft, where does someone find that sort of player? That’s an all star player we would be talking about.

Offensively the Celtics problem for me is the lack of bench options they have. I would love what the 08 or 10 Celtics had. Someone like Glen Davis or Eddie House to provide some instant offence.

The guy I'm talking about would be finishing the game in place of Smart or White. That's being realistic.

Name names

This has been discussed in great detail in at least two separate threads. My position was that the Celtics need to be on the lookout for an opportunity to upgrade at guard with Smart OR White, Theis, Nesmith and some picks available should an opportunity arise. You need someone who wants out, and is willing to come to Boston. Then a trade can be forced.

[Grahf]

Pierce would've risen to the challenge against Curry. He would've attacked the paint relentlessly and lived at the free throw line against that Warriors 4Q lineup. Pierce's ability to draw fouls when his team desperately needed easy points is why he was better than Tatum at the same age.

In Tatum's defense, some of his jumpers were so far off it feels like he must be injured. That back rimmed three, that front rimmed midrange jumper… not used to seeing a healthy Tatum miss that badly.

[Red2]

Seems curry is the one guy who can beat us and we let him score 43. Need better defense on him

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Seems curry is the one guy who can beat us and we let him score 43. Need better defense on him

Curry's going to get his points regardless of what people try to do to stop him

Boston's issues continue to be turnovers, lack of scoring and a major issue is Jason Tatum who is shooting 27% on two-point shots.

Also would be nice if Boston was good at home which they're not. 6-5 at home in the playoffs is abysmal.

[Celts17Pride]

Celtics play with pace and move the ball they are a Top 5 offense.

Celtics slow the pace, wait until there is 5-6 seconds left on the shot clock to get into their offense they become very ordinary and are easy to guard. Keep putting guys in tough spots.

Said it about 40 times in the game thread last night.

Celtics want to win the championship they have to play with pace and move the ball

[pac213up]

Tatum needs to wake the f up. It is that simple. Your best player being good is not going to get it done. It is a lot to put on a young kids shoulders no doubt but that it what Superstars do. He is playing a step to slow and overthinking the game. When the offense is struggling he needs to be a go to scorer that can punish mismatches and force the issue. His effort is there, it is not like he is playing bad. It looks like a mental thing.

[Celts17Pride]

We are getting killed by curry, just like butler killed us and giannis killed us

Can we slow curry down a game or two , bad shooting 20-25 points???

If only the Celtics had the DPOY

[GrandTheftRondo]

Pierce would've risen to the challenge against Curry. He would've attacked the paint relentlessly and lived at the free throw line against that Warriors 4Q lineup. Pierce's ability to draw fouls when his team desperately needed easy points is why he was better than Tatum at the same age.

In Tatum's defense, some of his jumpers were so far off it feels like he must be injured. That back rimmed three, that front rimmed midrange jumper… not used to seeing a healthy Tatum miss that badly.

Yeah I was at the game and noticed early in the fourth the Warriors fouls were creeping up.

Nobody had the savvy to start drawing some fouls and get them in the bonus early.