Trade Thread Dread, pt 3, 2023-24 - (Off-season)

[Parliament10]

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[djFan71]

It's a doozy, but ultimately 3, Simons via ORL to get WCJ and load up on future picks.

POR: Brown, Pritchard for 3, Simons, 43, 2024 ATL 2nd rounder.
They keep #23 this year to use/trade

ORL: 3, Kornet for 6, 36, Top 5 protected 2024 1st.
Been discussed in depth with 6 & 11 instead of next years pick, so I think they'd go for spreading it out. Maybe top 10 protection instead?

BOS: 6, WCJ, Simons, Batum, RoCo, 36, 43, top 5 2024 ORL 1st, 2025 ATL 2nd via POR, top 10 2029 LAC 1st.

LAC: Brogdon for Batum, RoCo, 29 1st (top 10)
Doesn't need to be included or happen at draft. But you probably need to move a guard to get Simons time and I like Batum as a vet / ball mover / etc. RoCo is salary filler / frontcourt depth. Future tradeable first the year after the swap.

Visually in spoiler

Spoiler:

Roster
Smart, JD
White, Simons
Tatum, Batum, Hauser
WCJ, Grant, Gallo
Rob, Al, Roco
#6
1 remaining spot to fill with 2nd rounder, vet min, Champagnie, Kabengele, etc.

WCJ would mainly be at center, but in the minutes he shares with Rob he'd go to the 4.

Picks this year:
#6 - Cam, Wallace, Hendricks, a Thompson?
35, 36, 43 - load up on two-ways or stashes in the 2nd round. We'll have all 3 two ways free assuming JD gets a real deal, and Kabengele can't (iirc) or shouldn't.

Future picks added:
2024: ORL 1st (top 5 protected)
2025: ATL 2nd (via POR),
2029 LAC 1st (top 10 protected)

I know, people don't care about picks, but we can use those and Batum, RoCo (aggregatable in 90 days) and even Grant at the deadline to trade for the next star asking out, or guys that aren't signed now that we can't accept in S&T, etc.

Reposting for you here in the new thread, mate. Hopefully you'll find some time soon.

[cl2117]

It's a doozy, but ultimately 3, Simons via ORL to get WCJ and load up on future picks.

POR: Brown, Pritchard for 3, Simons, 43, 2024 ATL 2nd rounder.
They keep #23 this year to use/trade

ORL: 3, Kornet for 6, 36, Top 5 protected 2024 1st.
Been discussed in depth with 6 & 11 instead of next years pick, so I think they'd go for spreading it out. Maybe top 10 protection instead?

BOS: 6, WCJ, Simons, Batum, RoCo, 36, 43, top 5 2024 ORL 1st, 2025 ATL 2nd via POR, top 10 2029 LAC 1st.

LAC: Brogdon for Batum, RoCo, 29 1st (top 10)
Doesn't need to be included or happen at draft. But you probably need to move a guard to get Simons time and I like Batum as a vet / ball mover / etc. RoCo is salary filler / frontcourt depth. Future tradeable first the year after the swap.

Visually in spoiler

Spoiler:

Roster
Smart, JD
White, Simons
Tatum, Batum, Hauser
WCJ, Grant, Gallo
Rob, Al, Roco
#6
1 remaining spot to fill with 2nd rounder, vet min, Champagnie, Kabengele, etc.

WCJ would mainly be at center, but in the minutes he shares with Rob he'd go to the 4.

Picks this year:
#6 - Cam, Wallace, Hendricks, a Thompson?
35, 36, 43 - load up on two-ways or stashes in the 2nd round. We'll have all 3 two ways free assuming JD gets a real deal, and Kabengele can't (iirc) or shouldn't.

Future picks added:
2024: ORL 1st (top 5 protected)
2025: ATL 2nd (via POR),
2029 LAC 1st (top 10 protected)

I know, people don't care about picks, but we can use those and Batum, RoCo (aggregatable in 90 days) and even Grant at the deadline to trade for the next star asking out, or guys that aren't signed now that we can't accept in S&T, etc.

Reposting for you here in the new thread, mate. Hopefully you'll find some time soon.

Random q but how do you post fanspo trade snapshots as images? Can't figure it out for the life of me

[Fierce1]

Regarding Marvel's post about Al being wide open in the paint for a layup and Al kicking it out to a shooter, that's why the Heat zone was so effective against the Cs.

Spo said in Games 1 and 2 that if the Heat limit the 3-pointers of the Cs then the Cs would have a hard time winning.

The point of attack of the Cs is just too predictable.

Big difference in the finals because the Heat couldn't use zone against Denver because Denver has so many options when it comes to scoring the basketball.

Miami got away with putting a PG or a SG on Al and Rob and the Celts weren't able to capitalize on that mismatch.

That needs to change.

Even a guy like Olynyk would punish Vincent or Strus if Oly gets the ball in the low post and Gabe or Strus would be defending Oly.

[Fierce1]

Reposting for you here in the new thread, mate. Hopefully you'll find some time soon.

Random q but how do you post fanspo trade snapshots as images? Can't figure it out for the life of me

Use an online hosting site.

I use imgur.

[djFan71]

Reposting for you here in the new thread, mate. Hopefully you'll find some time soon.

Random q but how do you post fanspo trade snapshots as images? Can't figure it out for the life of me

Use an online hosting site.

I use imgur.

Yep, that,. Download button from fanspo, upload to Imgur, open link in new tab to copy since this site can’t handle the direct link.

[flintsky21]

Oshae Brissett. Some of you might vaguely remember him having a huge game against Boston last year. I think he can be a cheap Grant Will replacement.

[Andrew McCeltic]

3 for 6 and WCJ? Absolutely. Don’t love Scoot, but really like the Thompsons, Walker, Black. Why would Orlando do it? They’d have to covet someone..

[gammajamma]

Another one that gets crazy

Boston trades: Jaylen brown, grant Williams, Malcom brogdon, Payton pritchard 24 first, 26 first

Receives : #3 pick, KAT, Siakim

Minnesota trades Kat

Receives: anfernee simons, Payton pritchard, grant Williams 24 first

Trailblazers trades: simons, #3, Nasir little

Receives: Jaylen brown

Raptors trade: pascal siakim

Receives: Malcolm brogdon, nasir little, 26 first


Smart/scoot?
White/??
Tatum/hauser
Siakim/timelord/gallo
Kat/horford/kornet

Again not realistic but fun to think about

[Andrew McCeltic]

I see Towns for Simons/3 as a higher probability than Jaylen. Minnesota needs to make changes, they can afford a disruptive move and a new timeline, and Portland doesn’t have to give up Sharpe.

Boston has to line up additional moves and has less of a margin to stay a contender. And because it’s higher risk for them I think they hold out for Sharpe. We could always fold in a Brogdon for Nurkic swap

[cl2117]

Another one that gets crazy

Boston trades: Jaylen brown, grant Williams, Malcom brogdon, Payton pritchard 24 first, 26 first

Receives : #3 pick, KAT, Siakim

Minnesota trades Kat

Receives: anfernee simons, Payton pritchard, grant Williams 24 first

Trailblazers trades: simons, #3, Nasir little

Receives: Jaylen brown

Raptors trade: pascal siakim

Receives: Malcolm brogdon, nasir little, 26 first


Smart/scoot?
White/??
Tatum/hauser
Siakim/timelord/gallo
Kat/horford/kornet

Again not realistic but fun to think about

Minnesota and Portland getting hosed here. Brown can land you 1 if those 3 pieces and the sum of the rest of the parts falls short of getting close to even one of the others.

[zoyathedestroya]

Smart | White | Tatum | Markannen | Timelord
Brogdon | Hauser | Gallinari | Jabari | Horford

Can still move Gallo/Muscala or Grant S&T + pick for a defensive wing (maybe DFS or O'Neal from BKN). Maybe HOU gives up more? IDEC.

[playa-hater]

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No freaking way I only have 47 posts !!!! I want a recount!

[Hal14]

My 2 ideas.

1) Flip JB for Siakam (start smart, white, tatum, siakam, rob) and then make some other minor changes to the rest of the roster as necessary.

The roster is upgraded (with pieces that fit together better), we've already upgraded the coaching staff. We weren't far away at all from winning a title these past 2 years so these changes put us over the hump for the 2024 title.

Or, a different option..

2) Just take the Blazers offer. They said they'll give 3rd pick + simons for a star. We give them JB. Done deal. simons/3rd pick for JB works in the trade machine. We'd save a bunch of $..

Then, depending on who we take with the 3rd pick (scoot, miller, amen or Ausar), we make additional moves as necessary.

[GoCeltics123]

My 2 ideas.

1) Flip JB for Siakam (start smart, white, tatum, siakam, rob) and then make some other minor changes to the rest of the roster as necessary.

The roster is upgraded (with pieces that fit together better), we've already upgraded the coaching staff. We weren't far away at all from winning a title these past 2 years so these changes put us over the hump for the 2024 title.

Or, a different option..

2) Just take the Blazers offer. They said they'll give 3rd pick + simons for a star. We give them JB. Done deal. simons/3rd pick for JB works in the trade machine. We'd save a bunch of $..

Then, depending on who we take with the 3rd pick (scoot, miller, amen or Ausar), we make additional moves as necessary.

Jaylen is better than Siakam. You only do that move if you want to save $$$, but it's a risk since we can't extend Siakam for 6 months and he may walk in FA.

Second trade is the one you take if you're trading JB, which as of now I don't think the Celtics will. But it's too early to tell

[Andrew McCeltic]

Would anyone take Nurkic, 3, Sharpe over Simons/3? Nurk's a warm body, Sharpe could slump as a sophomore but looks ready to contribute now.

You could flip 3 with Nurkic or Brogdon, draft another young chip, or trade down to 6 and 11.

It's a better return for Jaylen IMO but doesn't give us more playmaking or a second scorer.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Thybulle shot 38 percent from three to finish the year in Portland? What is up with that

[djFan71]

Would anyone take Nurkic, 3, Sharpe over Simons/3? Nurk's a warm body, Sharpe could slump as a sophomore but looks ready to contribute now.

You could flip 3 with Nurkic or Brogdon, draft another young chip, or trade down to 6 and 11.

It's a better return for Jaylen IMO but doesn't give us more playmaking or a second scorer.

Absolutely. POR would be much more reluctant to do that, though.

[Hal14]

My 2 ideas.

1) Flip JB for Siakam (start smart, white, tatum, siakam, rob) and then make some other minor changes to the rest of the roster as necessary.

The roster is upgraded (with pieces that fit together better), we've already upgraded the coaching staff. We weren't far away at all from winning a title these past 2 years so these changes put us over the hump for the 2024 title.

Or, a different option..

2) Just take the Blazers offer. They said they'll give 3rd pick + simons for a star. We give them JB. Done deal. simons/3rd pick for JB works in the trade machine. We'd save a bunch of $..

Then, depending on who we take with the 3rd pick (scoot, miller, amen or Ausar), we make additional moves as necessary.

Jaylen is better than Siakam. You only do that move if you want to save $$$, but it's a risk since we can't extend Siakam for 6 months and he may walk in FA.

I posted this earlier so I'll re-post it here as a spoiler.

Spoiler:

It's less about who's the better/younger player and more about fit, imo.

Siakam fits better with this celtics team than Brown does, imo. Here's why:

-If we look at the last 19 NBA champions, none of them have had 2 guys on the same team with 30% usage and under 25% assist rates. Zero, zilch, nada. Siakam is a lower usage, higher assist guy than Brown. This season, Siakam had a career high 24.9% assist rate, which is MUCH higher than both tatum and brown, despite having a MUCH lower usage rate than both tatum and brown

-Siakam being older than Brown is actually a good thing. Again, looking at the last 19 NBA champions, if we look at the 2 best players for each of those teams, the common trend is that they are typically much older than tatum and brown are. During this year's postseason, tatum and brown's average age was 25.5. If we look at the average age of the 2 best players for the previous 19 NBA champions, ALL of them were older than 25.5. If we take the average age of the 2 best players for the past 19 NBA champions, we get 29.4. So ideally, your 2 best players should have an average age of at least 29.4 if you want to win a championship. Or, as close to that 29.4 number as you can get is ideal, if you're under it. But this year, Tatum and brown's average age was just 25.5, and during next year's playoffs, their average age will be just 26.5. However, if you replace Brown with Siakam, the average age during next year's playoffs of Tatum and Siakam is 28. It might not seem like a lot, but going from average age of 26.5 to 28 could end up being a pretty big difference. Especially since the guy we'd be acquiring (Siakam) is not only 3 years older than Brown, but Siakam has actually won an NBA title before - and played a BIG role in winning that title.

-From a positional standpoint, Siakam is the better fit. Instead of having 2 wings (Tatum and Brown) it's a smoother fit to have 1 wing (tatum) paired with someone who plays a different position, like someone who is a PF / small ball C (Siakam). What lineup do play with Tatum and Brown? If you play Brown at the 2 and Tatum at the 3, there's 2 drawbacks with that. One issue, is that there's not enough minutes for all of our other guards (smart, brogdon, white, pritchard). The other issue, is who plays the 4 in that scenario? Last year when we had brown at the 2 and tatum at the 3, it was usually al at the 4, but he's getting too old now. Ideally, at this point in his career, he's coming off the bench - and playing primarily at the 5. Or, we played Grant at the 4, but he's not good enough to start and is also undersized. If we play Brown at the 3 and Tatum at the 4, now we're not big enough - when we played that lineup we usually got killed on the boards and with opponents scoring easily in the paint (especially if our 5 was someone other than Rob). But with Tatum at the 3 and Siakam at the 4, all of those issues go away. You have enough minutes for all of those other guards, you have good size, and you're not having to play as many mins with al or Grant at the 4.

Brown isn't even the better player, IMO. Siakam's BPM over the last 2 years: 3.5, 3.1. Compare that to JB with 2.1 and then 1.3. Siakam has grown quite a bit as a play maker. He's got a much better assist % than JB, while being less ball dominant (much lower usage % than JB).

Siakam takes less ill advised shots, drives into non-existent driving lanes less, makes less bonehead turnovers, less defensive mistakes. Siakam has more size, would give us a better flowing offense and more consistent defense.

Siakam has a much lower 3Pr, which means he settles for threes less and does a better job at taking higher % shots closer to the basket. His 3Pr last 2 years: 18.1% and 21.9%, compared to JB which is 38.1% and 35.2%. So JB's 3Pr is basically DOUBLE siakam's which means the % of JB's shots that are from 3 are basically double what siakam's is. Everyone on here says we need to stop relying so much on the 3 and take it to the basket more - well here ya go!

Lastly, Siakam's FTr is much better than JB's. This celtics team obviously settles for 3's too much, doesn't do a good enough job of attacking the basket and getting higher % shots closer to the rim. FTr is also a good indicator of that. It tells you how frequently a guy is getting himself to the FT line. Last 2 years: Siakm's FTr is 31.4% and then 36.1%, compared to JB with 26.1% and then 24.9%.

Siakam is more durable, too. Over the last 5 seasons, Siakam has played 335 games, to 322 games for JB. If we just look at the past 2 seasons, Siakam has played 69.5 games per season, compared to just 66.5 games per season for JB. And Siakam has been more durable (played in more games) despite the fact that he's played more mins per game than JB, which really shows he's more durable (last 2 years, Siakam averaging like 37 MPG, to just 34 MPG for JB).

Not to mention, Siakam is a better fit from a financial standpoint. JB is due for a supermax contract, which a) he's not worth that type of contract so we'll have 1 of the worst contracts in the league and b) it'll make it very hard to have enough good players around tatum/brown once they're both on a supermax with the new CBA. Meanwhile, if we acquire Siakam, that won't be an issue. A player can only get supermax contract from the team that drafted him. And Siakam did not make all-NBA team this season. So he's not supermax eligible and even if he was, we wouldn't be the team that could offer it to him. So we'd save a ton of $ by only having Siakam on a regular max contract, instead of paying JB a supermax.

[GoGreen]

3 and Simons are good gets, the problem is what do you do with 3?