RealGM

Yes, it is possible, but does it make basketball sense, as opposed to fiscal sense?
Mathematically it turns out that if the Celtics trade Payton Pritchard and Jaden Springer into Cap Space for Picks (preferably FUTURE), they could sign (for the Vet Minimum) 3 Vets with 2 or More years experience, 1 Vet with 1 Year experience and 1 rookie.

Here's how it plays out:

2nd Apron is 189,485,000

Nine Returning Players
49,350,000 Jaylen Brown
34,848,340 Jayson Tatum
30,000,000 Jrue Holiday
29,268,293 Kristaps Porzingis
20,071,429 Derrick White
9,500,000 Al Horford
2,196,970 Neemias Queta (unguaranteed but probably will be)
2,092,344 Sam Hauser (unguaranteed but definately will be)
1,891,857 Jordan Walsh

Total of above 9 players = 179,219,233

2 Year or More Vet Cap Hit is 2,302,001
1 Year Vet Cap Hit is 2,054,495
Rookie Cap Hit is 1,276,599 (Not a 1rst Round Pick, a 2nd Rounder or Undrafted player)
Total would be 14 Players to get under 2nd Apron

Free Agent Possibilities for Vet Minimum (I realize I'm repeating some guys I questioned Hal on for why they'd take vet minimum but now I realize there are vets out there who don't always go for the biggest paycheck).

Ball Handler Possibilities
Kris Dunn
Aaron Holiday
Patrick Beverly

Wings - shooting guards
Eric Gordon
Josh Richardson
Lonnie Walker
Luke Kennard
Aaron Wiggins
Gary Harris

Wings - Small Forwards (some can play PF)
Gordon Hayward
Oshae Brissett
Cedi Osman
Simone Fontecchio
Doug McDermott

Swings
Jeff Green
Danilo Gallinari
Jae Crowder

Bigs
Andre Drummond
Goga Bitazde
Daniel Theis
Mason Plumlee
Xavier Tillman
Luke Kornett
Mo Bamba

The Celtics would probably trade their #30 pick for some future 2nd Rounders (or to say, Portland for the #34 and #40).

As long they land a veteran Big, veteran Forward and veteran ball handler, they could probably trade Pritch and Springer for future picks. In addition to the 3 vets, they could add one rookie (2nd Rounder or Undrafted) and one 1 year vet, but only a total of 14 players (but they could still have Three Two-way players, which their #54 pick might net one of).

What do you think? Is it plausible from a basketball sense? Or do you just go over the 2nd Apron?

Make Jrue even happier and bring in little brother Aaron to get #19.

Jammer wrote:Yes, it is possible, but does it make basketball sense, as opposed to fiscal sense.
Mathematically it turns out that if the Celtics trade Payton Pritchard and Jaden Springer into Cap Space for Picks (preferably FUTURE), they could sign (for the Vet Minimum) 3 Vets with 2 or More years experience, 1 Vet with 1 Year experience and 1 rookie.

Here's how it plays out:

2nd Apron is 189,485,000

Nine Returning Players
49,350,000 Jaylen Brown
34,848,340 Jayson Tatum
30,000,000 Jrue Holiday
29,268,293 Kristaps Porzingis
20,071,429 Derrick White
9,500,000 Al Horford
2,196,970 Neemias Queta (unguaranteed but probably will be)
2,092,344 Sam Hauser (unguaranteed but definately will be)
1,891,857 Jordan Walsh

Total of above 9 players = 179,219,233

2 Year or More Vet Cap Hit is 2,302,001
1 Year Vet Cap Hit is 2,054,495
Rookie Cap Hit is 1,276,599 (Not a 1rst Round Pick, a 2nd Rounder or Unsigned player)
Total would be 14 Players to get under 2nd Apron

Spoiler:

Free Agent Possibilities for Vet Minimum (I realize I'm repeating some guys I questioned Hal on for why they'd take vet minimum but now I realize their are vets out there who don't always go for the biggest paycheck).

Ball Handler Possibilities
Kris Dunn
Aaron Holiday
Patrick Beverly

Wings - shooting guards
Eric Gordon
Josh Richardson
Lonnie Walker
Luke Kennard
Aaron Wiggins
Gary Harris

Wings - Small Forwards (some can play PF)
Gordon Hayward
Oshae Brissett
Cedi Osman
Simone Fontecchio
Doug McDermott

Swings
Jeff Green
Danilo Gallinari
Jae Crowder

Bigs
Andre Drummond
Goga Bitazde
Daniel Theis
Mason Plumlee
Xavier Tillman
Luke Kornett
Mo Bamba

The Celtics would probably trade their #30 pick for some future 2nd Rounders (or to say, Portland for the #34 and #40).

As long they land a veteran Big, veteran Forward and veteran ball handler, they could probably trade Pritch and Springer for future picks. In addition to the 3 vets, they could add one rookie (2nd Rounder or Undrafted) and one 1 year vet, but only a total of 14 players (but they could still have Three Two-way players, which their #54 pick might net one of).

What do you think? Is it plausible from a basketball sense? Or do you just go over the 2nd Apron.

I'm way ahead of you.
This is my Master Draft Trade Scenario:

I think I'm the reverse from most on the deadline trades.

Tillman: A lot of people saying we didn't trade 2 seconds just to let Tillman walk. I think we traded 2 seconds for KP insurance - that we sorely needed. And it's a trial on Tillman and if we like him and can resign him at a reasonable price, we will. But, I think even if he walks, 2 seconds for big insurance for a title run is absolutely worth it. And it ended up being extremely important in some games.

Springer: Was definitely NOT about this year. They like that he's tough and could play in the playoffs like Brad said, but I don't think that meant this year. It was always about the future with him. Brad and Zarren knew the 2nd apron consequences when they traded for him, but did it anyways.

That's why I just don't see us trying to get under. Definitely not over the summer.

Now, we may trade Pritchard for other reasons (he wants a bigger role, upgrade a draft pick / get a future one, etc) and replace him with a lower cost option. And then, if Springer doesn't pan out, we have the option of dumping him at the deadline and trying to sneak under then.

But I really don't see us doing those moves just to duck the 2nd apron and being hamstrung with 14 guys and no ability to make moves thru the deadline just to avoid starting the repeater clock on the 2nd apron. I think they are going to maximize this title contention window, future costs be damned, and if that also means knocking down a future pick from 28-30 range to 30, so be it.

Why do we need to do this?

What kind of money does it save that otherwise we feel like Wyc wony eat? These dudes took 16 years to win the title, they're gonna start dismantling it immediately?

Yeah, I don't think the Cs will duck under the 2nd apron, especially now that the Cs are champs.

PP will not be traded IMO.
He's still going to get better and he's better than guys like Dunn and Beverly.

Springer is the one who can be used as a trade chip because he has a 4m salary for 2024-25.

The Corey's wrote:Why do we need to do this?

What kind of money does it save that otherwise we feel like Wyc wony eat? These dudes took 16 years to win the title, they're gonna start dismantling it immediately?

They're not dismantling it, IMO.

Only way changes are going to be made is if guys like Kornet, Tillman, and Brissy leave.

And no, Cs are not ducking the 2nd apron this 2024-25 season.

Fierce1 wrote:

The Corey's wrote:Why do we need to do this?

What kind of money does it save that otherwise we feel like Wyc wony eat? These dudes took 16 years to win the title, they're gonna start dismantling it immediately?

They're not dismantling it, IMO.

Only way changes are going to be made is if guys like Kornet, Tillman, and Brissy leave.

And no, Cs are not ducking the 2nd apron this 2024-25 season.

Well yes. The core ain't going anywhere and frankly neither is Pritchard. You don't sign him to that extension of you're afraid of the second apron.

The math part of ball always messes with my head but for me I don't understand the purpose of weakening the bench for the purpose to save money.

The Corey's wrote:

Fierce1 wrote:

The Corey's wrote:Why do we need to do this?

What kind of money does it save that otherwise we feel like Wyc wony eat? These dudes took 16 years to win the title, they're gonna start dismantling it immediately?

They're not dismantling it, IMO.

Only way changes are going to be made is if guys like Kornet, Tillman, and Brissy leave.

And no, Cs are not ducking the 2nd apron this 2024-25 season.

Well yes. The core ain't going anywhere and frankly neither is Pritchard. You don't sign him to that extension of you're afraid of the second apron.

The math part of ball always messes with my head but for me I don't understand the purpose of weakening the bench for the purpose to save money.

Yeah, I agree.

This will be a boring off-season for the Celtics.

Fierce1 wrote:Yeah, I don't think the Cs will duck under the 2nd apron, especially now that the Cs are champs.

PP will not be traded IMO.
He's still going to get better and he's better than guys like Dunn and Beverly.

Springer is the one who can be used as a trade chip because he has a 4m salary for 2024-25.

Springer is going to be a very good NBA player. Keep him.

Curmudgeon wrote:

Fierce1 wrote:Yeah, I don't think the Cs will duck under the 2nd apron, especially now that the Cs are champs.

PP will not be traded IMO.
He's still going to get better and he's better than guys like Dunn and Beverly.

Springer is the one who can be used as a trade chip because he has a 4m salary for 2024-25.

Springer is going to be a very good NBA player. Keep him.

Agree with you on Springer's potential.

But he's going to be very expensive at 4m as the 12th or 13th man.

Guess that depends on what happens with Luke, Tillman, and Brissy.

If all 3 return, Springer will be expendable.

Parliament10 wrote:

Jammer wrote:...

I'm way ahead of you.
This is my Master Draft Trade Scenario:

I use a work laptop so not able to visit your site so I can't respond.

The Celtics must address their big situation. You have to assume KP is injured so all you really have is AL and QUETA who I expect to get Luke's regular season rotation minutes. I'd like to see them use a combo of PP and/or Springer contracts + picks to find a durable big who can rim run and defend.

djFan71 wrote:I think I'm the reverse from most on the deadline trades.

Tillman: A lot of people saying we didn't trade 2 seconds just to let Tillman walk. I think we traded 2 seconds for KP insurance - that we sorely needed. And it's a trial on Tillman and if we like him and can resign him at a reasonable price, we will. But, I think even if he walks, 2 seconds for big insurance for a title run is absolutely worth it. And it ended up being extremely important in some games.

Springer: Was definitely NOT about this year. They like that he's tough and could play in the playoffs like Brad said, but I don't think that meant this year. It was always about the future with him. Brad and Zarren knew the 2nd apron consequences when they traded for him, but did it anyways.

That's why I just don't see us trying to get under. Definitely not over the summer.

Now, we may trade Pritchard for other reasons (he wants a bigger role, upgrade a draft pick / get a future one, etc) and replace him with a lower cost option. And then, if Springer doesn't pan out, we have the option of dumping him at the deadline and trying to sneak under then.

But I really don't see us doing those moves just to duck the 2nd apron and being hamstrung with 14 guys and no ability to make moves thru the deadline just to avoid starting the repeater clock on the 2nd apron. I think they are going to maximize this title contention window, future costs be damned, and if that also means knocking down a future pick from 28-30 range to 30, so be it.

I may be very wrong, but I think Springer deal was all about the $4million contract and what it could be used to bring back to Celtics.

sam_I_am wrote:

djFan71 wrote:I think I'm the reverse from most on the deadline trades.

Tillman: A lot of people saying we didn't trade 2 seconds just to let Tillman walk. I think we traded 2 seconds for KP insurance - that we sorely needed. And it's a trial on Tillman and if we like him and can resign him at a reasonable price, we will. But, I think even if he walks, 2 seconds for big insurance for a title run is absolutely worth it. And it ended up being extremely important in some games.

Springer: Was definitely NOT about this year. They like that he's tough and could play in the playoffs like Brad said, but I don't think that meant this year. It was always about the future with him. Brad and Zarren knew the 2nd apron consequences when they traded for him, but did it anyways.

That's why I just don't see us trying to get under. Definitely not over the summer.

Now, we may trade Pritchard for other reasons (he wants a bigger role, upgrade a draft pick / get a future one, etc) and replace him with a lower cost option. And then, if Springer doesn't pan out, we have the option of dumping him at the deadline and trying to sneak under then.

But I really don't see us doing those moves just to duck the 2nd apron and being hamstrung with 14 guys and no ability to make moves thru the deadline just to avoid starting the repeater clock on the 2nd apron. I think they are going to maximize this title contention window, future costs be damned, and if that also means knocking down a future pick from 28-30 range to 30, so be it.

I may be very wrong, but I think Springer deal was all about the $4million contract and what it could be used to bring back to Celtics.

I used to love those type of deals, but without aggregation, it won't get you a ton as a pure salary ballast play. Only players making between vet min and $4M. And if you use it to bring back more than vet min, you're by definition a 2nd apron team as Jammer lays out, so you won't be able to aggregate.

djFan71 wrote:

sam_I_am wrote:

djFan71 wrote:I think I'm the reverse from most on the deadline trades.

Tillman: A lot of people saying we didn't trade 2 seconds just to let Tillman walk. I think we traded 2 seconds for KP insurance - that we sorely needed. And it's a trial on Tillman and if we like him and can resign him at a reasonable price, we will. But, I think even if he walks, 2 seconds for big insurance for a title run is absolutely worth it. And it ended up being extremely important in some games.

Springer: Was definitely NOT about this year. They like that he's tough and could play in the playoffs like Brad said, but I don't think that meant this year. It was always about the future with him. Brad and Zarren knew the 2nd apron consequences when they traded for him, but did it anyways.

That's why I just don't see us trying to get under. Definitely not over the summer.

Now, we may trade Pritchard for other reasons (he wants a bigger role, upgrade a draft pick / get a future one, etc) and replace him with a lower cost option. And then, if Springer doesn't pan out, we have the option of dumping him at the deadline and trying to sneak under then.

But I really don't see us doing those moves just to duck the 2nd apron and being hamstrung with 14 guys and no ability to make moves thru the deadline just to avoid starting the repeater clock on the 2nd apron. I think they are going to maximize this title contention window, future costs be damned, and if that also means knocking down a future pick from 28-30 range to 30, so be it.

I may be very wrong, but I think Springer deal was all about the $4million contract and what it could be used to bring back to Celtics.

I used to love those type of deals, but without aggregation, it won't get you a ton as a pure salary ballast play. Only players making between vet min and $4M. And if you use it to bring back more than vet min, you're by definition a 2nd apron team as Jammer lays out, so you won't be able to aggregate.

Any Players Traded have to be for Picks Only. We can't afford to bring back any Salary.

Honestly, now that we’ve won this thing, the easiest way to get under the 2nd apron, and bear with me here, is to trade Jrue for Marcus (!!!)

Marcus makes $20 this season To Jrue’s $30 … you probably have to incentive a 3rd team to take back Konchar … and maybe Memphis isn’t even interested for budgetary reasons …

But it’s an interesting thought. It’d be interesting, lol

Konchar, picks to WAS

Jrue to MEM

Smart to BOS
Johnny Davis to BOS

To get under the 2nd apron, we’d then need to move Davis again, PP or Springer but it’d be extremely do able.

But u trade Jrues guaranteed years and dollars to bring back Smart who plays the same role almost as well and more cheaply …and u get under the apron and clean up the books for the sale … it’s interesting, that’s all I’m saying.