Celtics Salary and Tax Talk

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

Now, the Celtics have zoomed past the second apron. They aren’t quite as expensive this season as the Phoenix Suns or Minnesota Timberwolves. Boston is neck-and-neck with the Milwaukee Bucks, about $50 million behind the Wolves and $150 million behind the Suns in terms of total spending.

It’s next season and beyond when Boston takes the lead in committed salary plus tax penalties. As it stands today, for 11 players, the 2025-26 Celtics are sitting at nearly $445 million in salaries plus tax penalties. That figure will very likely zip well past half-a-billion when all is said and done.

Yes, the cap and tax are set to go up the maximum of 10% for at least each of the next few seasons. But Boston is so far over the second apron, it might take years for it come back into view again. Even in 2026-27, the Celtics are already at over $200 million on the books for just nine players.

[redslastlaugh]

I expect new ownership, or present ownership as a precondition of the sale, to cut the payroll. It’s seeming like an impossibility that any new owner will buy the team to walk into hundreds of millions in losses right off the bat.

But this is not a catastrophe. The competition has to play by the exact same rules.

The Clippers let Paul George walk for nothing. The Nuggets same with KCP.

This is fine, it just means we need some earlier than expected contributions from younger players, which is not really uncommon in Celtics history. Dee Brown played significant playoff minutes in 1991. Rondo and Powe played huge minutes in 2008 in their second year.

There is this belief that players in their first 2-3 years can’t impact playoff series, and I don’t know where it came from. Yes, a young core isn’t going to win anything. But a veteran core getting a boost from a young player stepping up is pretty muc the norm, whether it’s Sam Cassell in Houston, 2003 Tony Parker in his second year, FVV in Toronto, Alex Caruso in the bubble, Christian Braun in Denver, just many examples right on down the line.

I’m expecting we are cutting $150 million off the long term books within the next 12 months, even though it will suck to lose guys, I expect we will because the NBA is a business. And I still think we can add more banners with JT etc because other guys can step up.

[165bows]

Read on Twitter

Now, the Celtics have zoomed past the second apron. They aren’t quite as expensive this season as the Phoenix Suns or Minnesota Timberwolves. Boston is neck-and-neck with the Milwaukee Bucks, about $50 million behind the Wolves and $150 million behind the Suns in terms of total spending.

It’s next season and beyond when Boston takes the lead in committed salary plus tax penalties. As it stands today, for 11 players, the 2025-26 Celtics are sitting at nearly $445 million in salaries plus tax penalties. That figure will very likely zip well past half-a-billion when all is said and done.

Yes, the cap and tax are set to go up the maximum of 10% for at least each of the next few seasons. But Boston is so far over the second apron, it might take years for it come back into view again. Even in 2026-27, the Celtics are already at over $200 million on the books for just nine players.

Celtics have essentially mirrored the Bucks for several years running. Until recently they would fall just behind them.

[itrsteve]

Pay to play.

Enjoy the next 2-3 seasons before the ride has to end. Hopefully we get one more.

[Hal14]

I expect new ownership, or present ownership as a precondition of the sale, to cut the payroll. It’s seeming like an impossibility that any new owner will buy the team to walk into hundreds of millions in losses right off the bat.

But this is not a catastrophe. The competition has to play by the exact same rules.

The Clippers let Paul George walk for nothing. The Nuggets same with KCP.

This is fine, it just means we need some earlier than expected contributions from younger players, which is not really uncommon in Celtics history. Dee Brown played significant playoff minutes in 1991. Rondo and Powe played huge minutes in 2008 in their second year.

There is this belief that players in their first 2-3 years can’t impact playoff series, and I don’t know where it came from. Yes, a young core isn’t going to win anything. But a veteran core getting a boost from a young player stepping up is pretty muc the norm, whether it’s Sam Cassell in Houston, 2003 Tony Parker in his second year, FVV in Toronto, Alex Caruso in the bubble, Christian Braun in Denver, just many examples right on down the line.

I’m expecting we are cutting $150 million off the long term books within the next 12 months, even though it will suck to lose guys, I expect we will because the NBA is a business. And I still think we can add more banners with JT etc because other guys can step up.

I agree to some extent. But I also wouldn't be so certain about $150 mil being cut from the payroll in the next 12 months.

First off, Wyc is still owning part of the team until 2028. As long as he's there, I would expect that the mindset is winning championships, rather than cutting payroll.

Secondly, every team and situation is different. I wouldn't necessarily say that just because Paul George and KCP left the Clippers and Nuggets for nothing, that automatically means the Celtics will cut $150 mil in payroll.

-Paul George is 34. He'll be 35 during the upcoming playoffs. He's injury prone and is getting paid a TON of money. Maybe the Clippers just didn't want to pay all that $ for an old, injury prone guy. Maybe they felt like the George/Kawhi pairing had run its course and they wanted to move on.

-The Nuggets let Jeff Green, Bruce Brown and KCP walk. *BUT* those 3 guys all got paid a lot of money. Some might say that all 3 of the contracts they just got by their new teams were an overpay. Green's deal with the Rockets was definitely an overpay for a guy that old and with that much gas left in the tank. KCP's deal seemed to be pretty reasonable. But maybe Denver just felt like, "Hey. We got 1 title. Realistically, this core of Jokic-Murray-Gordon-Porter probably isn't good enough to win another one. So let's just move on from some of these older vets and do kind of a rebuild while still competing and give more mins to our young guys like Strawther/Braun/Watson." The Celtics are in a different spot. Right now, it's not that farfetched that they could win another 2 or 3 (if not more) titles with this core. So the strategy should be keeping the foot on the gas pedal, build a dynasty, keep winning championships, f the tax bill.

Of course, it's not my money lol

Lastly, we don't know who the new owners will be. For all we know, they will have tons of money and will spend even more than Wyc has been spending. I wouldn't assume anything..

[ConstableGeneva]

Brad Stevens:
“What we want to do is try to get our guys locked in on fair and good extensions that they feel really good about and hopefully continue this thing as long as we can continue this thing. We'll cross every bridge when we get there, and the different basketball penalties that will be associated with being above the second apron, those are real, and we'll just have to weigh those against where we are as a basketball team, and we'll also have to weigh the financial part of that. And I'm sure part of that will be a discussion amongst whoever the new investors are.”

That was just from a month ago. I don't think that's changed. So it's more likely than not that Cs cut salary if they fall short of expectations next couple of seasons. The repeater tax penalty (which starts in 2025-26 for the Celtics) is brutal and you have to reset that knob at some point or avoid it entirely if possible.

PSA: Enjoy the core while it lasts.

[Hal14]

Brad Stevens:
“What we want to do is try to get our guys locked in on fair and good extensions that they feel really good about and hopefully continue this thing as long as we can continue this thing. We'll cross every bridge when we get there, and the different basketball penalties that will be associated with being above the second apron, those are real, and we'll just have to weigh those against where we are as a basketball team, and we'll also have to weigh the financial part of that. And I'm sure part of that will be a discussion amongst whoever the new investors are.”

That was just from a month ago. I don't think that's changed. So it's more likely than not that Cs cut salary if they fall short of expectations next couple of seasons. The repeater tax penalty (which starts in 2025-26 for the Celtics) is brutal and you have to reset that knob at some point or avoid it entirely if possible.

PSA: Enjoy the core while it lasts.

Eh, that's not really how i internet that quote.

All he's really saying is "there's penalties for teams who spend a lot. When we make roster decisions we have to take them into account and also factor in where we are as a team."

No kidding, Brad..we know that.

It's basically a nothing-quote. Like a lot of what he says. Saying a lot of words but not really saying anything or tipping his hand..

[ConstableGeneva]

Brad Stevens:
“What we want to do is try to get our guys locked in on fair and good extensions that they feel really good about and hopefully continue this thing as long as we can continue this thing. We'll cross every bridge when we get there, and the different basketball penalties that will be associated with being above the second apron, those are real, and we'll just have to weigh those against where we are as a basketball team, and we'll also have to weigh the financial part of that. And I'm sure part of that will be a discussion amongst whoever the new investors are.”

That was just from a month ago. I don't think that's changed. So it's more likely than not that Cs cut salary if they fall short of expectations next couple of seasons. The repeater tax penalty (which starts in 2025-26 for the Celtics) is brutal and you have to reset that knob at some point or avoid it entirely if possible.

PSA: Enjoy the core while it lasts.

Eh, that's not really how i internet that quote.

All he's really saying is "there's penalties for teams who spend a lot. When we make roster decisions we have to take them into account and also factor in where we are as a team."

No kidding, Brad..we know that.

It's basically a nothing-quote. Like a lot of what he says. Saying a lot of words but not really saying anything or tipping his hand..

He literally says they have to weigh the financial part of it. And that they have to discuss it with whoever the new investors are. It's a diversion from previous messaging of Brad having the greenest of green lights to spend from the owners.

It's not our money so it's easy to stay gung-ho with this stuff. Apparently, it also wasn't Wyc's. My hope is even if we do shed salary at some point (hopefully not within next two seasons), that they keep Brad in his post. He's proven himself an astute team builder and an inspiring organization leader regardless of circumstance.

This really would be less of an issue if the Cs had their own arena and are getting full revenue from the games. Even teams with deeper pockets (see LAC, GSW) have had to shed salary at some point. Maybe Cs keep winning the title and there's more incentive to keep this thing going, let's see. But maybe cost-cutting is "as easy" as finding suitable replacements for Porzingis and/or Holiday. Anyway, handing out the extensions with the rising cap was still the right move as opposed to seeing core pieces walk for nothing. As Brad said, "we'll cross every bridge when we get there." Cs don't even have a new owner yet so we don't know what the mandate is.

[celtxman]

The NBA has really succeeded in pounding teams that try to win into oblivion with this CBA. You penalize the brilliant work of Brad Stevens and the willingness of Wyc Grousbeck to go places that now can affect his own family's legacy. Meanwhile teams like Charlotte, with no intention of paying what it now costs to win, just get to collect the profits, including off of the luxury tax.
I have no idea where the Celtics go with this after the season. We can only hope for the best

[165bows]

The NBA has really succeeded in pounding teams that try to win into oblivion with this CBA. You penalize the brilliant work of Brad Stevens and the willingness of Wyc Grousbeck to go places that now can affect his own family's legacy. Meanwhile teams like Charlotte, with no intention of paying what it now costs to win, just get to collect the profits, including off of the luxury tax.
I have no idea where the Celtics go with this after the season. We can only hope for the best

Yup - good news is they should keep Tatum and Brad, so whatever they trade out, if they get comparable value to Brad's moves so far they will still be really tough lol.

[shackles10]

Silver's ultimate goal is to have so much parity that every team in the league finishes at .500. The Celtics dominated the regular season, the playoffs, and the Finals and everyone talked about their cake walk. Yes injuries to other teams were a big part of the discussion, but parity has also watered down the level of the top tier contenders (2024 Celtics breaking the system with Brad and Zarren's genius excluded). Can't wait until 2027 when we get to see the worst championship team in the history of major US sports hoist the Larry O.

[redslastlaugh]

If parity is every team has 2 max guys, 1 near max guy, 1 mid level guy, and ten minimum guys.

We’ve got :

Tatum
Brown
D. White
Hauser

As our four surrounded by minmum guys picked by Brad Stevens and I’m looking around the league thinking, dang I like our chances.

Actually I’m like, alllllright LETS GO!!! Our four plus mins vs your four plus mins … lol, Let’s Do This !!

[shackles10]

If parity is every team has 2 max guys, 1 near max guy, 1 mid level guy, and ten minimum guys.

We’ve got :

Tatum
Brown
D. White
Hauser

As our four, and 8m like, alllllright LETS GO!!!

10 minimum guys is so bad for the NBPA as a whole. They either need to fix this for the next CBA (and realize they shouldn't do something too similar in the future) or switch to non-guaranteed deals. I can't imagine NBPA will go for that either.

[redslastlaugh]

If parity is every team has 2 max guys, 1 near max guy, 1 mid level guy, and ten minimum guys.

We’ve got :

Tatum
Brown
D. White
Hauser

As our four, and 8m like, alllllright LETS GO!!!

10 minimum guys is so bad for the NBPA as a whole. They either need to fix this for the next CBA (and realize they shouldn't do something too similar in the future) or switch to non-guaranteed deals. I can't imagine NBPA will go for that either.

I was editing my post as you were responding. Yea, I agree, from a labor perspective it’d be crap for the league. But from a competitive balance perspective, considering we are stuck with this CBA, I’m just saying if every team stripped it down, we’d still probably be in one of the best spots of every NBA team, having two elite wings in their primes plus a couple of pieces, that’s all.

[celtxman]

If parity is every team has 2 max guys, 1 near max guy, 1 mid level guy, and ten minimum guys.

We’ve got :

Tatum
Brown
D. White
Hauser

As our four, and 8m like, alllllright LETS GO!!!

Oh I'm definitely excited for next season. I've already gotten some tickets. I absolutely hate the thought of breaking up the team because the CBA squeezes like a vice. It puts Wyc and his father at odds and it isn't right. You'll have over half of the teams pretending to go for championships and teams like Denver getting to the mountain top, and lose talent to keep below the 2nd apron.

[ConstableGeneva]

Warriors payroll (and revenue) from 2014-2018:
2014-15: $72.6M ($201M)
2015-16: $114.98M* ($305M)
2016-17: $100.3M ($359M)
2017-18: $170.5M* ($401M)
*paid tax

Warriors were REALLY profitable during their 4-year title window. The only year Dubs were in the red since then was 2020-21.

If the NYPost article is to be believed, Celtics weren't even profitable in the year they won the title and will lose $80M this coming year. Ouch.

[redslastlaugh]

Last year we paid $45 million in taxes, played 11 playoff home games and made a small profit.
With the current roster, lux tax is estimated to be $65 million. If we missed the playoffs entirely we wouldn’t lose $80 million.

Winning the title adds a significant dollar amount of intangible premium to the value of the franchise as well.

[Tatumfor2]

Silver's ultimate goal is to have so much parity that every team in the league finishes at .500. The Celtics dominated the regular season, the playoffs, and the Finals and everyone talked about their cake walk. Yes injuries to other teams were a big part of the discussion, but parity has also watered down the level of the top tier contenders (2024 Celtics breaking the system with Brad and Zarren's genius excluded). Can't wait until 2027 when we get to see the worst championship team in the history of major US sports hoist the Larry O.

As long as it's us!

[shackles10]

If parity is every team has 2 max guys, 1 near max guy, 1 mid level guy, and ten minimum guys.

We’ve got :

Tatum
Brown
D. White
Hauser

As our four, and 8m like, alllllright LETS GO!!!

10 minimum guys is so bad for the NBPA as a whole. They either need to fix this for the next CBA (and realize they shouldn't do something too similar in the future) or switch to non-guaranteed deals. I can't imagine NBPA will go for that either.

I was editing my post as you were responding. Yea, I agree, from a labor perspective it’d be crap for the league. But from a competitive balance perspective, considering we are stuck with this CBA, I’m just saying if every team stripped it down, we’d still probably be in one of the best spots of every NBA team, having two elite wings in their primes plus a couple of pieces, that’s all.

True, and I wasn’t meaning I disagree with you either it’s just such a bad situation that cap will likely put most competitors in with rosters comprised in similar manners to how you described. If they’re all like that though we’re still in the hunt at least.

[shackles10]

Warriors payroll (and revenue) from 2014-2018:
2014-15: $72.6M ($201M)
2015-16: $114.98M* ($305M)
2016-17: $100.3M ($359M)
2017-18: $170.5M* ($401M)
*paid tax

Warriors were REALLY profitable during their 4-year title window. The only year Dubs were in the red since then was 2020-21.

If the NYPost article is to be believed, Celtics weren't even profitable in the year they won the title and will lose $80M this coming year. Ouch.

To help with the bottom line the mods have agreed to not get paid this season. You’re welcome Wyc.