If Paul Pierce PLayed for Miami

[s1ickd]

Swap Pierce and Wade.

If Paul Pierce played with Shaq, Ricky Davis, Haslem, and with Pat Riley as his head coach... that team is a 6 seed, minimum. Theres no way he would allow that team to be as bad as they are now.

Think about it, that team would be AT LEAST as good as that 05 team with payton and walker that made the playoffs.

i think wade is totaly overrated.

[technologic]

The '05 Heat team was arguably better than '06 Heat team with a healthy Wade. The '05 Heat was one of the best in the league.

NO

[s1ickd]

The '05 Heat team was arguably better than '06 Heat team with a healthy Wade. The '05 Heat was one of the best in the league.

NO

and what does this have anything to do with my argument?

[technologic]

-= original quote snipped =-



and what does this have anything to do with my argument?

Unnecessary information.

If you said,
'08 Heat without Wade plus Pierce>= 05' Heat

Then the
'08 Heat without Wade plus Pierce would be east seed 2 minimum.

Pick your minimum placement for the team more rigorously (it's confusing).

[Bleeding Green]

They'd probably be a few wins better or so?

The Heat don't have a very talented team. Replacing Wade with Pierce is not going to bring them from a projected 21-win team to a 41-win team, which would probably get the 6 seed.

No player is worth 20 wins over another player. And certainly not over a player of Wade's caliber.

[Jimmy103]

-= original quote snipped =-



Unnecessary information.

If you said,
'08 Heat without Wade plus Pierce>= 05' Heat

Then the
'08 Heat without Wade plus Pierce would be east seed 2 minimum.

Pick your minimum placement for the team more rigorously (it's confusing).

Well he didn't say that, you just missed his point.

The OP's ORIGINAL point was that the 2005 Boston Celtics' supporting cast for Paul Pierce was <= the 2008 Miami Heat's supporting cast for Dwyane Wade

THUS since Pierce made the playoffs, he brings more to the table than Wade who has the Heat in the gutter.

Correct?

[sittinOnGreen]

I agree with you on one thing at least, I'm in the Wade-is-overrated camp...benefits from foul calls too much

[technologic]

-= original quote snipped =-



Well he didn't say that, you just missed his point.

The OP's ORIGINAL point was that the 2005 Boston Celtics' supporting cast for Paul Pierce was <= the 2008 Miami Heat's supporting cast for Dwyane Wade

THUS since Pierce made the playoffs, he brings more to the table than Wade who has the Heat in the gutter.

Correct?

Wow, that's an indirect conjecture, if anything.
I didn't see one mention of the 2005 Celtics team. I think we need s1ckd to clear this up.

[Jimmy103]

-= original quote snipped =-


Wow, that's an indirect conjecture, if anything.
I didn't see one mention of the 2005 Celtics team. I think we need s1ckd to clear this up.

Maybe you're a new NBA fan, that's okay. He did reference it:

Swap Pierce and Wade.

If Paul Pierce played with Shaq, Ricky Davis, Haslem, and with Pat Riley as his head coach... that team is a 6 seed, minimum. Theres no way he would allow that team to be as bad as they are now.

Think about it, that team would be AT LEAST as good as that 05 team with payton and walker that made the playoffs.

i think wade is totaly overrated.

The 2005 Boston Celtics featured Gary Payton (aka The Glove) and Antoine Walker (aka Employee #8) and they made the NBA Playoffs as the #4 seed. What's interesting about that team is that Pierce's supporting cast was: Ricky Davis, Gary Payton, Mark Blount, and Antoine Walker. Then compare that to what Wade is playing with and you scratch your head how they're so awful if he's so great.

[technologic]

-= original quote snipped =-



The 2005 Boston Celtics featured Gary Payton (aka The Glove) and Antoine Walker (aka Employee #8) and they made the NBA Playoffs as the #4 seed. What's interesting about that team is that Pierce's supporting cast was: Ricky Davis, Gary Payton, Mark Blount, and Antoine Walker. Then compare that to what Wade is playing with and you scratch your head how they're so awful if he's so great.

LMAO my bad.

[Bleeding Green]

Because the players are older and much, much, much crappier. Antoine Walker is badly out of shape and even worse out of talent, Mark Blount is horrific (was pretty good in 2005 if you'll remember, but you probably won't), Ricky Davis is worse, Gary Payton isn't even playing (and if he did, I imagine he'd be one of the worst players in basketball--did you see him last year? To say the '05 versions of these players are equivalent to their current versions is a lie.

The Heat literally have zero talent beyond Wade. Haslem is a mediocre starting power forward, Ricky Davis is just a matador and his offensive game is pretty awful right now, Shaq is LOL, Mourning is injured and likely done, Penny was terrible. Who else is there? Jason Williams, Daequan Cook? Just more mediocrity at best.

I do like Dorrell Wright, though. Too bad that he's their only above-average player after Wade.

Replace Wade with any single player in history and they probably don't make the playoffs.

[Jimmy103]

Because the players are older and much, much, much crappier. Antoine Walker is badly out of shape and even worse out of talent, Mark Blount is horrific (was pretty good in 2005 if you'll remember, but you probably won't), Ricky Davis is worse, Gary Payton isn't even playing (and if he did, I imagine he'd be one of the worst players in basketball--did you see him last year? To say the '05 versions of these players are equivalent to their current versions is a lie.

The Heat literally have zero talent beyond Wade. Haslem is a mediocre starting power forward, Ricky Davis is just a matador and his offensive game is pretty awful right now, Shaq is LOL, Mourning is injured and likely done, Penny was terrible. Who else is there? Jason Williams, Daequan Cook? Just more mediocrity at best.

I do like Dorrell Wright, though. Too bad that he's their only above-average player after Wade.

Replace Wade with any single player in history and they probably don't make the playoffs.

Jason Williams vs. Gary Payton...this is MAYBE a toss up, GP was washed up in LA in 2004, JWill is below average at best which is still better than Payton.
Ricky Davis vs. Ricky Davis...Uhhh I guess 05 Ricky was better? Marginal difference
Udonis Haslem vs. Antoine Walker...Toine was detrimental to the team at this point, gotta give the edge to UD
Shaquille O'Neal vs. Mark Blount...Shaq is bad, but he's still better than Mark Blount

[numbas]

i really cant believe this u can be a celtics fan but now ur going overboard, ill accept the argument of who is better wade or pierce even tho i know its wade he single handely won the heat a title wether u think the refs helped him or not only 7 teams in the last like 27 years have even won a title,and dont talk about the spporting casts are the same antoine since last year has been horrible isnt even starting for the worst team in the nba, davis is doing bad this year,blount was good in 2005 which got him his good contract and gp just started his decline the year before 2005 and wasnt all that good with the heat any year and isnt even playing this year

o ya and if u wanna talk about pierce wouldnt let his team do this bad idno wtf u could be talking about wut has pierce done the past 2 years his teams r **** and so is wades now which equals bad records and wut did pierce lead his team to that one year 76ers made it to finals it was between them sixers n raptors all mediocore teams and wut did pierce lead his team to?????? not the finals

[Jimmy103]

o ya and if u wanna talk about pierce wouldnt let his team do this bad idno wtf u could be talking about wut has pierce done the past 2 years his teams r **** and so is wades now which equals bad records and wut did pierce lead his team to that one year 76ers made it to finals it was between them sixers n raptors all mediocore teams and wut did pierce lead his team to?????? not the finals

Pierce never had SHAQ!

Yea, Wade won the NBA Title...BUT HE HAD SHAQUILLE O'NEAL!

When Pierce was making his push to the Eastern Conference Finals, Jason Kidd got in his way. Shaq helped Wade's cause in that department.

[Number34]

You guys forget how bad the heat players have been outside of wade. If wade and pierce swapped, paul would have to have to have at least 30ppg. We have been suffering from injuries too. No Zo, No shaq, No Jwill, No quin (so no pg at all). Paul is a great player, love the bloke and his style but he isn't better then wade.

The op is vastly overrating the heats team and underrating wade

[numbas]

-= original quote snipped =-



Pierce never had SHAQ!

Yea, Wade won the NBA Title...BUT HE HAD SHAQUILLE O'NEAL!

When Pierce was making his push to the Eastern Conference Finals, Jason Kidd got in his way. Shaq helped Wade's cause in that department.

lol bro shaq averaged only like 13.5 points a game in the finals

[Number34]

-= original quote snipped =-



lol bro shaq averaged only like 13.5 points a game in the finals

Dude, you've made your case now take a step back. This is their forum after all.

[D-Wade]

-= original quote snipped =-
Yea, Wade won the NBA Title...BUT HE HAD SHAQUILLE O'NEAL!

Did you care to watch the NBA Finals in 2006 or not? Because Antoine Walker for Christ's sake was Miami's second leading scorer. Shaquille O'Neal looked absolutely finished in that series -- one can argue that Alonzo Mourning's defensive presence even overshadowed what Shaquille O'Neal did offensively for Miami in that series. We're talking about a guy who averaged 14/10 and couldn't stay on the court.

Nonetheless, this is a ridiculous argument. This is Dwyane Wade's 5th year as an NBA pro, and it will be the first time he has ever missed the playoffs. Paul Pierce? Hell, even Kobe Bryant "led" a team a few years ago to a similar path as the 2007-2008 Miami Heat, and Kobe is without question the best player in basketball, IMO.

Paul Pierce & Dwyane Wade is a hilarious debate. They aren't even in the same class, and that's no knock at all because I'm quietly rooting for (obviously not OVER the Heat, but you get the picture) the Celtics to win it all this year.......I love KG, Ray Allen is one of my all-time favorites, Pierce has always had my respect, & James Posey is one of the most appreciated athletes I've ever rooted for. But come on, let's be realistic here. Paul Pierce has never even led a team to the NBA Finals much less what Wade led his team to in 2005-2006. And, he won't be leading this team to the Finals either. I think it's obvious that KG is the new leader, regardless of what may be said for good will. Pierce & Wade's leadership skills may be on the same level, but overall as a player it's not even close -- accomplishments aren't close either.

Basically to sum all of that up, this thread is pretty irrelevant.

[s1ickd]

let me put it this way. last year, paul pierce had arguably the worst supporting cast in nba history (18 game losing streak).

before he went down with his injury, the record of that pathetic celtics team was better than this year's heat team. much better. i dont care how bad you think wade's teammates are, they arent worse than the '06-'07 celtics.

don't get me wrong, wade is a good player. he's a great slasher, average shooter, and decent defender. i don't think he's as multifasceted as paul pierce. he doesnt effect the game in as many ways. people think he's nasty because he gets so much tv time on the freethrow line.

[Kaykoose]

That is a stretch and a half. 1st of all, Wade is better than Pierce (pains me to say it, but I'm just being real). Put that with the fact that the Payton, Walker, Davis, Blount that Pierce had were better than the ones Wade had, and its easy to see why Wade is doing worse with them.

I pretty much agree with DWade's post, although people seem to downplay Shaqs impact in the playoffs. Forget about his numbers. Teams doubled Shaq as if it were 2001. That made things a whole lot easier for Dwyane Wade and the rest of the Heat.