OT- MJ's greatness with respect to Jkidd's recent streak

[Spin Move]

They were showing that Jason Kidd had 3 triple doules in a row on ESPN and that last 2 players to do that were grant hill and Michael Jordan, who did it 7 straight times in 1988-89. We hear all sorts of comparions to MJ these days, Kobe for example, but I went and looked at Michael Stats from that season.



FG% 3P% FT% OFF DFF TOT APG SPG BPG PPG
.538 .276 .850 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.89 0.80 32.5

Think about that, 32 points a game, with 8 rebounds and 8 assists and almost 3 steals a game for a playoff team and he did it on over 50% shooting (remember the 3 point lane was a couple feet further back then, and defenders could hand check).

now that was Michaels most statisticly well rounded season, but really, think about having a 30 8 and 8 guy on your team, just wow.

[Tricky Ricky]

Thats why people call him the best ever

[jfs1000d]

More Cult of Jordan nonsense.

Yes, that was an impressive year for Jordan.

But who put up this year?

30.8 points, 11.4 assists and 12.5 rebounds per game?

That my friends is the Big O. Jordan is great, but he is arguably the best player ever, not inarguably.

Big O doesn't take a back seat to anyone.

[Spin Move]

Thats why people call him the best ever

Yes but I think people forget just how good he was, you here these kobe comparisons, kobe has never come close to shooting 50% from the field, his highest FG% was .469, he never averaged more then 6 assists even with the ability to dump the ball into shaq, he never got close to 8, kobes best (most well rounded) year he averaged 30.0 points 5.9 assists 6.9 on 45.1% shooting very very good, but like i said with shaq, and not as good as Michael.

I was just stunned when i heard 7 straight triple doubles.

[GuyClinch]

The rest of the league wasn't that talented when the Big O was dominant. Sorry. It's like watching Marcus Banks in the Summer League..

Pete

[Spin Move]

More Cult of Jordan nonsense.

Yes, that was an impressive year for Jordan.

But who put up this year?

30.8 points, 11.4 assists and 12.5 rebounds per game?

That my friends is the Big O. Jordan is great, but he is arguably the best player ever, not inarguably.

Big O doesn't take a back seat to anyone.

Very true the big O belongs in the argument, but that was done in 1962 Wilt Chamberlien averaged 50 and 25 that year, I think that given the level of competition Jordans stats were more impressive, I would aslo argue that Wilts 50 and 25 is more impressive then 30 8 and 8 , point is late 80's is more comparable era to today then the early 60's

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

The rest of the league wasn't that talented when the Big O was dominant. Sorry. It's like watching Marcus Banks in the Summer League..

Pete

I guess we can say the 8 straight titles the Celts won don't mean **** if we go by your logic then.

[LenBiasBaller]

-= original quote snipped =-



I guess we can say the 8 straight titles the Celts won don't mean **** if we go by your logic then.

Its difficult to compare era's and all that jazz....thats why I leave these arguments alone....good point though! LoL...

[CornbreadMaxwell31]

I guess we can say the 8 straight titles the Celts won don't mean **** if we go by your logic then.

Well that isn't relevant at all.

The league was vastly different then and played at a completely different pace. As a result statistics were inflated. It would be nearly impossible for someone like Dwight Howard to average 20+ rebounds per game now, but put him in 1965 and there is no question that he would be right next to Wilt and Russ as a rebounder.

Not to take anything away from Wilt or O, but comparing players from the modern era and of the past is a pointless activity.

[Datruth345]

you can't compare eras in sports

i agree when michael played is much more comparable to today, that that of the 50's-60's

with that said

bird put up years of

26-10-7-2 50% shooting
28-9-8-2 52% shooting

not bad for a white guy

[chakdaddy]

I agree wholeheartedly about cult of jordan nonsense.

If he put up more years like that, then he probably would be the greatest ever. Too bad that year and the first couple championship years to a lesser extent were the only times that he played unselfishly...

Most of Bird's years are close to those numbers.

[Joyeuse]

(remember the 3 point lane was a couple feet further back then, and defenders could hand check).

Actually, the 3 point line was the same then as it is now. You're thinking of that two-year period in the nineties where it was moved in to the 22-foot arc all the way around instead of the 23.9 or whatever it is at the arc and 22 feet near the sidelines.

Also, remember that illegal defense was still part of the game in the 80's. That was before the great 90's defenses (*coughknickscough*) that pretty much outright ignored illegal defense.

Not that that takes anything away from the accomplishment; I just really don't believe it was harder to put up those sorts of numbers back then than it is now.

[GuyClinch]

I guess we can say the 8 straight titles the Celts won don't mean **** if we go by your logic then.

They still were the best back then. <g> Your statement hardly applies my "logic"

Players back then by and large weren't as good as they are now. Outside of the occasional superior specimen - which big O was one off they didn't compare to today's players. That's why guys were able to AVERAGE 50 points per game and 25 rebounds.

It's like this in all sports. For example the 1942 bears were are great football team - the Falcons though would beat them by 100 points if they played today though. Jordan could still put up those numbers today - but its pretty unlikely Oscar Robinson could.

There were alot fewer people playing basketball then - the training methods were inferior - and the overall athleticism of the league was way down compared to what it is now.

Simply put if you think the Big O could step in and dominate now like he did then your crazy. It's just like the D. League - there is some dude kicking the crap out of it - but in the big show his numbers become pedestrian. I don't think the drop off from now to then is THAT big where D-League teams would be winning but it's there.

What you think Babe Ruth would be the homerun king today?

Pete

[GuyClinch]

Anyway Jordan was in fact the man - he managed to dominate games from the SG position which we have never seen before. And it was his defense as much as his "numbers" which was so amazing.

It's not a 'cult" go back and watch some old Jordan games.. I hate the Bulls but you can make a good case he was in fact the best ever despite the fact that people have had 'superior" fantasy years.

pete

[chakdaddy]

Who is Oscar Robinson?

[UGA Hayes]

Who is Oscar Robinson?

The original LeBron James

[Jammer]

The rest of the league wasn't that talented when the Big O was dominant. Sorry. It's like watching Marcus Banks in the Summer League..

Pete

Sorry to disagree with you there, sonny.

When the league was 8 teams, it was a 96 player league.

Players were multi-positional, and more skilled.

Ambidexterity was common.

Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Sam Jones would have been dominant in any era.

Heck, I'd take any of those 3 for the last shot in a game over anyone on the Celtics right now.

Sam Jones, owner of 10 championship rings with the Celts, and Mr. Last Shot, was not only bigger than Tony Allen, but A LOT quicker than anyone on the Celts current team, including Rajon Rondo.

Walt Frazier, who came into the league in 1967, is the best defensive guard that I've ever seen. When Havlicek and Jo Jo White routinely collided heads with Walt, they faced each other 8 times per year, before the playoffs.

Sam Jones would have to square off against Oscar and West 10 times per season, before the playoffs. And all of those guys, West, Robertson, and Sam Jones shot jumpers out to twenty feet with either hand. Walt Frazier shot with either hand also, but his range was 19 feet. It's much harder to guard a player who can let a 20 footer go when you don't know which hand he's going to use.

Heck, I can remember right handed Sam winning a playoff game for the Celts with a lefty 22 footer with 2 future First Team All Defensive Players on him.

[SuigintouEV]

The bulls' offense was ugly that year

[tanat-0s]

Oh, c'mon...

The GOAT debate is sooo onesided it's not even funny.

First of all, MJ's accolades blows every other athlet's OUT OF THE WATER.

NBA ALL-TIME LEADERS:
(All statistical records + playoff records + career averages + playoff averages + MVPs + Finals MVPs + Rings + All-1st teams + All-1st Defensive Teams + All-star games + All-star MVPS)

1st Place: MJ, 149 total points
2nd Place: Wilt, 124 total points
3rd Place: Bill, 118 total points
4th Place: Jabbar, 114 total points
5th Place: Magic, 102 total points

Second, MJ was a KILLER in playoffs. He holds all the scoring records there that you can imagine.

- Highest career scoring average: MJ 30.12
- Highest career playoff scoring average: MJ 33.4
- Highest career Finals scoring average: MJ 33.6
- Highest single Finals series average: MJ 41.0
- Most Total Points Playoffs: MJ 5987
- Most 50 point games playoffs: MJ 8
- Most 40 point games playoffs: MJ 38
- Most consecutive 50 point games playoffs: MJ 2
- Most consecutive 45 point games playoffs: MJ 3
- Most consecutive 40 point games finals: MJ 4
- Most consecutive 30 point games finals: MJ 9
- Most consecutive 20 point games playoffs: MJ 60
- Most consecutive 20 point games finals: MJ 35
- Highest scoring game playoffs: MJ 63

Third, he scored 63 on Bird-McHale-Parish-Walton Celtics at the Garden in the year when Celtics lost at home only ONCE. That was possibly the best team ever in basketball! And he scored 63 on them! Wilt for example never scored even 50 on Russel's teams. MJ sweeped Thomas-Lambeer Pistons in series and that was one of the best defensive teams ever, the original Bad Boys team.

MJ WAS THE GOAT, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

[Jimmy103]

They were showing that Jason Kidd had 3 triple doules in a row on ESPN and that last 2 players to do that were grant hill and Michael Jordan, who did it 7 straight times in 1988-89. We hear all sorts of comparions to MJ these days, Kobe for example, but I went and looked at Michael Stats from that season.



FG% 3P% FT% OFF DFF TOT APG SPG BPG PPG
.538 .276 .850 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.89 0.80 32.5

Think about that, 32 points a game, with 8 rebounds and 8 assists and almost 3 steals a game for a playoff team and he did it on over 50% shooting (remember the 3 point lane was a couple feet further back then, and defenders could hand check).

now that was Michaels most statisticly well rounded season, but really, think about having a 30 8 and 8 guy on your team, just wow.

MJ: FG% .538, 3P% .276, FT% .850, OFF 1.8, DFF 6.2, TOT 8.0, APG 8.0, SPG 2.89, BPG 0.80, PPG 32.5

LBJ: FG% .476, 3P% .290, FT% .715, OFF 1.5, DFF 5.8, TOT 7.3, APG 7.5, SPG 1.90, BPG 1.03, PPG 29.0


LeBron doesn't even stack up as MJ beats him in everything but 3P% and BPG


Then again, I'm always a BIG fan of:
55.5% FG, 79.2% FT, 19.1 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 3.6 apg, 1.50 bpg, 1.56 apg