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ray just can't seem to find his rythm.if he doesn't find his stroke soon we're in deep doo

Ray's a shooter and shooters will have cold games. The problem is no one is even trying anything else, just dribbling around aimlessly until someone steals it.

Some guy had Ray Allen as a starter for the Eastern Conference All stars on 1st and 10.

chakdaddy wrote:Ray's a shooter and shooters will have cold games. The problem is no one is even trying anything else, just dribbling around aimlessly until someone steals it.

More like a cold season, except for a few great games. . . I think he will pick it up though - can't get any worse.

Give me Gremlin West, some guy with the name Green... and a pardon of 12 million salary back!

Allen should just come off the bench (kinda like Manu Ginobli) so he can get all the shots he used to get before because to me he is a volume shooter which he can't do with the first unit. Plus it helps bolster our second unit.

I don't mind so much Allen's cold shooting as much as some of the bone head turnovers he has been making.

He over dribbles a lot and gets trapped easily, his role should be similar to what Reggie Millers role was towards the end, just come off screens and shoot.

You know, honestly I've been defending this team's starting line up all season. We're 34-7. But the more I see Ray, the more I think he could use the couple minutes more rest. TA is a/the spark plug off the bench, but Ray could come out shooting..

Although, I think that he may fit in the starting more than the bench lineup.

The problem is that he jumps forward on his jumpshots. He normally shoots this way but in the last few games it was more extreme.

That is why I would like to see him get more points coming off screens. When he does that he fades back a little on his jumper and he is more effective that way, IMO.

I hate it when he gets the ball on the top of the key and he dribbles like a PG. We just aren`t using Ray in the right way, IMO. That is why I would think about bringing him off the bench and making him the focal point of our offense in the second quarter. We need to get him more shots coming off screens and play to his strenghts more.

Ray's play has declined sharply from last year and previous years. There is no two ways about it. He is nowhere near being remotely close to an all-star caliber player at this point. Hollinger' sstats do not even have Ray in the top 100, and whatever one thinks of Hollinger, his system is favorable to guys who score like Ray. Foire the last nine seasons Ray has been one of the 25 best players in the game. We can park all that stuff about a new big three. It is more like a Big Two and change.

We have to pray this is just an adjustment issue and he will get it together by April. I fear we cannot win a title without Ray at all-star level. In fact, I know we cannot. Our offense needs Ray to beat the best teams. Period.

I am baffled. I love Ray's game. I thought with Ray's body type and skill level his game would not decline this sharply. I pray it is not due to age but to fluke injuries he can overcome. But as the season drags on, my concern grows.

This is the single most important issue that will determine the Cs fate this year, aside from major injuries to KG or PP.

I hate how celtics fans seem to downplay our problems. as I said over a month ago in my own thread, we don't have ray allen. Right now, we have a semi washed up ray who can't hit wide open threes and sometimes has trouble banking layups off the glass almost un contested. I'm convinced ray will return, but I don't know when...and I'm a bit concerned. He has been pretty clutch though, but his play this season has been inexcusable for someone of his caliber

I agree with you 100% Elrod.

The Big 2 and change is exactly how I see it. IMO, The performance of Pierce, and Garnett affect the game more than the performance of RA. IMO, the Performance of Garnett and Pierce is the difference between a win and a loss. Add Ray and it's the difference between a close game and a blow out. He's just the icing on the cake.

I think our recent struggles have had to do with Pierce's poor play. He's been turned into a volume shooter the last few games, while scoring less. Garnett hasn't been his regular 20/10 self for a few games now, either.

Oddly enough Ray's numbers are starting to go up. Ray has been averaging 21/4/3 with almost 2 steals a game. Now if we can get Pierce back on track maybe 20 point wins will be back. Maybe Ray will play like an All-star again .

yeah, it really lookis like ray is on the decline and that we overpaid for him big time. I've said for a while that I thought 6th man was his role on this team. I'd like to see them develop pruitt this season

Red2 wrote:yeah, it really lookis like ray is on the decline and that we overpaid for him big time. I've said for a while that I thought 6th man was his role on this team. I'd like to see them develop pruitt this season

Seeing that he's the main reason Garnett agreed to come to the C's, I wouldn't say we overpaid at all.

is there going to be a post like this after every game Ray doesnt light it up?

probably be a thread like this whenever any player has a cold game... you get used to it.

UHar_Vinnie wrote:I don't mind so much Allen's cold shooting as much as some of the bone head turnovers he has been making.

I agree. Ray not making wide open shots is definitely dissapointing, but his constant over dribbling in traffic causes TO's, and him holding the ball too long takes the clock down to a point where our offense rushes a last second shot all too often. He seems a bit lost at times.

I'm not rushing to judgement here because let's face it, he's Ray Allen. He's had slumps before and bounced back. He has a track record of being an intelligent player who can make adjustments. But yes, at this point it's not looking good.

except for the best record in the league bit, the stone cold game winners and the games where he has gone off to win the games for us...

apart from that, it looks bleak

elrod enchilada wrote:Ray's play has declined sharply from last year and previous years. There is no two ways about it. He is nowhere near being remotely close to an all-star caliber player at this point. Hollinger' sstats do not even have Ray in the top 100, and whatever one thinks of Hollinger, his system is favorable to guys who score like Ray. Foire the last nine seasons Ray has been one of the 25 best players in the game. We can park all that stuff about a new big three. It is more like a Big Two and change.

We have to pray this is just an adjustment issue and he will get it together by April. I fear we cannot win a title without Ray at all-star level. In fact, I know we cannot. Our offense needs Ray to beat the best teams. Period.

I am baffled. I love Ray's game. I thought with Ray's body type and skill level his game would not decline this sharply. I pray it is not due to age but to fluke injuries he can overcome. But as the season drags on, my concern grows.

This is the single most important issue that will determine the Cs fate this year, aside from major injuries to KG or PP.

....this is panic talk from a group of fans that have been too focused on a losing Celtics franchise for too long...

This team has hit the point in the season where opponents now have enough game film to effectively defend the overly-simplistic offense that this team brought into the regular season. Now the team has to adapt, adjust, and progress as a unit...

Ray Allen isn't the only one "struggling" either...KG and Pierce have declined in production as well offensively...KG is the only one with a superior shooting percentage to season's past, PP and RA are at their previous levels...

Is this "decline?", hardly...

Watch how Pierce and Allen are being used offensively....Neither player is doing very much within the team offense, both are still taking a majority of their shots off the dribble...this is the way both players have been accustomed to playing for the past 4-5 years and it is going to take quite a bit of time for them to re-learn how to NOT try and playmake off of every touch they get...

Ray Allen looks almost identical to his time in Seattle, sans an additional 15+ touches per game on the offensive side of the ball...he's been streaky his entire time in Seattle and shot a very comparable percentage-much more of a volume shooter than people realize...but the Seattle Allen could manufacture big production out of an off-shooting night by shear volume...

Now that his role in the offense is more limited its taking him longer to re-calibrate and his off-nights look more egregious than they actually are...

It may take all season and even into next season to condition Pierce and Allen into catch-and-shoot or one-dribble jumpers directly off screens...right now they both instantly look to create something first and this is what is taking their shooting percentages down...

...the team needs time offensively...if you've ever watched another team closely when they add major offensive cogs, it always takes 2-3 seasons for them to get up to full speed...the Celtics can compete for a title even if they're not at full speed, but they have to be more offensively competent than they are now if they want to win...

...still have 40 games to work on this....don't freak out...