C's gotta fix their offense....quick.

[MaxwellSmart]

From the remarks I've heard from Doc ....it seems like the team doesn't even work on offensive plays in practice at all--like they're only worried about defense...The "Offense will take care of itself" BS just ain't cutting it anymore---Rivers better pull his head out soon...does Tom Thibodeu have a twin brother who knows offense?.....cause Rivers sure doesn't know what he's doing.

Don't give me any of that 34-7 talk either---this team has stunk it up since the Detroit game,they're just winning on talent and a bit of luck in a watered down league.

[return2glory]

From the remarks I've heard from Doc ....it seems like the team doesn't even work on offensive plays in practice at all--like they're only worried about defense...The "Offense will take care of itself" BS just ain't cutting it anymore---Rivers better pull his head out soon...does Tom Thibodeu have a twin brother who knows offense?.....cause Rivers sure doesn't know what he's doing.

Don't give me any of that 34-7 talk either---this team has stunk it up since the Detroit game,they're just winning on talent and a bit of luck in a watered down league.

Thank you MaxwellSmart.

I've seen saying this for weeks now. There should be some concerns with the way this team is playing, since the start of the new year.

I'm just glad that we had a chance to win against the worst team in the NBA tonight. That is who bad it been getting. We only had 37 points in the 2nd half.

This team looks lost on offense right now. There is no way Ray Allen should get to play 40 minutes, when is shot 4-18. It's not like his out there for his great defense. Pierce and Allen combined for 8-33 shooting. They only managed to make 8 shots combined in over 82 minutes.

[Stephen Levitt]

Defense wins championships. The Celtics will win the ship because of their defense.

[darrendaye]

Co-sign, the OP.

[bruno sundov]

Ray Allen hasn't shot the ball well since he was hurt and had to sit out for a few games.

[canman1971]

I have been saying this for awhile now. Teams are playing more zone against the Cs. The only way to combat that is threefold: quick passing, dribble-penetrate, screens. It really shouldn't be that hard. I'm confident they'll figure it out. I also think they are a little banged up right now. Nothing serious, but enough to effect the fluency of the offense. The key is to keep winning, and focus on what they need to fix and fix it before the playoffs. They have plenty of time. I think we, as fans, were (are) spoiled by their record. They have only played together for 40 games. Yes, they came out of gate hot, but now teams are playing them differently, so they are adjusting, which naturally will take some time. You can't just throw a completely new team out there for 82 games and think they'll play together like they've been together for 4 years.

[darrendaye]

can, I whole-heartedly agree with your sentiments. At the same time, this is as valid a topic of discussion at present as any. I'm far from on a ledge, and I chuckle to read comments from people who always seem to take up residence there, but, there are issues currently. I think they'll figure it out, however, I'll still have my imaginary cattle-prod in hand, hoping to vicariously shock them into higher awareness of the problem and expedite the needed adjustments.

[canman1971]

can, I whole-heartedly agree with your sentiments. At the same time, this is as valid a topic of discussion at present as any. I'm far from on a ledge, and I chuckle to read comments from people who always seem to take up residence there, but, there are issues currently. I think they'll figure it out, however, I'll still have my imaginary cattle-prod in hand, hoping to vicariously shock them into higher awareness of the problem and expedite the needed adjustments.

I wholeheartedly agree this is a valid topic. They are having offensive issues, and they need to be fixed. I just think they will get fixed, just hopefully sooner rather than later.

[Kefa461]

From the remarks I've heard from Doc ....it seems like the team doesn't even work on offensive plays in practice at all--like they're only worried about defense...The "Offense will take care of itself" BS just ain't cutting it anymore---Rivers better pull his head out soon...does Tom Thibodeu have a twin brother who knows offense?.....cause Rivers sure doesn't know what he's doing.

Don't give me any of that 34-7 talk either---this team has stunk it up since the Detroit game,they're just winning on talent and a bit of luck in a watered down league.

Don't give me any of that 34-7 talk either- Watered downed league or not or pee wee league there are not many leagues anywhere can claim to have this record and I agree we have a bump and I repeat a bump in the road on offense. Offense is easy to fix, alot easier then defense. I think some of us, Mods or not need to look back and reflect catch or breath and see the progress this team has made in 41 games. Rome was not built in a day. Defense was the #1 job. Job well done. Now for us here to say "Don't give me any of that 34-7 talk either" when we came from where we all know where we started is and please excuse me from what I'm gonna say is just plain stupid. From losing the #1 pick to now at 34-7 and to discount where we are is again just either blindness or lack of bb know how. Teams in the NBA do not make these jumps like the C's have done. These jumps take 4 to 5 years the C's have done it in months. So let's be real. I expect some posts from some people to not know this, but other posters who have claimed to have playing and coaching experiences should know what it takes to turn teams around. This we are watching, what Danny has done is a BB miracle and sometimes somethings suffer. The offense will come around better in the 2nd half of the season. Be happy the D is the best in the league.

[bru87tr]

well, defense does win champs. they obviously are practicing defense. I would rather them do what they are doing cause offense does come 2nd, but they do neeed to practice offensive plays.

[ParticleMan]

For the most part, games we have lost this year have been because of defense, not offense. When we play tough D for 48 mins, almost nobody can beat us.

I am concerned about eh offense but not that much, because we are missing good, open shots. How many layup did we blow against Minnesota? How many open jumpers did Ray brick?

Now you're going to tell me we need to redesign our offense... for what? To get layups an open jumpers? We're getting them! From guys who should be able to score, like Paul and Ray! What more can a scheme do? If Paul or Ray were shooting anywhere close to form we would have won by 20.

There are times when we look lost on offense, but from where I stand it never lasts that long, and no team has the perfect offense. If you are concerned about the offense then be concerned why Ray suddenly can't hit open shots, or why Pierce misses layups. It's really nothing to do with the scheme. The best any scheme can do is to give our scorers high-percentage shots. That's already happening. It's up to our scorers to actually make the shots.

[darrendaye]

For the most part, games we have lost this year have been because of defense, not offense. When we play tough D for 48 mins, almost nobody can beat us.

I am concerned about eh offense but not that much, because we are missing good, open shots. How many layup did we blow against Minnesota? How many open jumpers did Ray brick?

Now you're going to tell me we need to redesign our offense... for what? To get layups an open jumpers? We're getting them! From guys who should be able to score, like Paul and Ray! What more can a scheme do? If Paul or Ray were shooting anywhere close to form we would have won by 20.

There are times when we look lost on offense, but from where I stand it never lasts that long, and no team has the perfect offense. If you are concerned about the offense then be concerned why Ray suddenly can't hit open shots, or why Pierce misses layups. It's really nothing to do with the scheme. The best any scheme can do is to give our scorers high-percentage shots. That's already happening. It's up to our scorers to actually make the shots.

Actually, in viewing last night's game, IMO, I agree with this theme. I was only able to catch 1.5 quartes of the game, but, I thought the offensive flow was pretty good, but as you mention the shots simply weren't falling. What I will argue with is the idea that the offense has been fine all along. And it seems you're tossing out cliches when you come from a stance that "win with defense, not with offense." I agree, defense is paramount, but the game still revolves around putting a ball through a basket.

I may have prematurely put my "stamp" on the OP in reaction to last night's game, but, I agree with the premise that the offense has/had been in a prolonged funk with games here and there where things were clicking. I'm sorry, but when Pierce takes 20 shots and no free throws, I still have to call that a symptom of a dysfunctional offense.

[Datruth345]

t-mac once said doc rivers doesnt know how to beat a zone

or something to that effect

[elrod enchilada]

There is a parallel thread on Ray Allen that addresses the offensive woes.

Ray's game is simply a long way from what it has been for the last eight seasons, and especially the last two seasons.

Check out the numbers.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ray_allen ... stats.html

Scoring, free throw attempts per game, fg percentage, assists, rebounds, steals. In every area he is well below his career standard. These are all indications as a rule of an aging player or an injured one. Let us pray it is the latter. As the season drags on it becomes harder to believe that a guy who turns 33 this summer is going to get his game back to where it was in the past. What you see is what you get. The only good news: his turnovers are at a career low, and his free-throw shooting percentage is at a career high. But he is getting to the line a lot less.

The fall in Ray's game is striking. From 2000-2007 Ray was a top 25 player by almost any measure. Now, by Hollinger, he is not even a top 100 player, And by watching all the games I would be hard-pressed to put him in the top 75.

We all knew that Ray's ppg would decline, as would PP's and KG's, because he would get fewer shots. But we did not bargain that he would also become much less efficient offensively and less productive overall. I am not a Ray basher. I have been a huge fan for his entire career. I lived in Wisconsin when Ray was on the Bucks, and Seattle was my home in the 70s and 80s so I have always had a soft spot for the Sonics. I have seen him play a lot during his career.

So I am concerned. Our chances of winning the NBA title in 2008 decline sharply if this is the Ray we get in May and June. We need the Ray we traded for. With that Ray, frankly, I think we are the favorites come April.

[darrendaye]

For a while this season, Ray's FTA ratio compared to FGA was at or near career highs. The shooting slump and the injury may have taken a toll on his production as it relates to that statistic. All other points you've illustrated are much more difficult to argue against for me.

[doctaJ_92]

They should dump the ball into KG a lot more often than they do. KG only took 1 shot in the 2nd half if I remember right, and didnt have that many assists because he barely touched the ball. You throw it into KG, if the D doubles him like they did early last night you'll have an open shot for either the first catch or if its swung to the other side(a la Toronto ball), or he'll score 50% of the time. You guys dont get him the ball anywhere near as much as you should. He isnt Emeka Okafor who just protects on D and gets the garbage buckets on O. Give the guy the ball more often.

And for the love of God, stop running plays for Ray Ray where he's the creator. It's become disgusting how bad he is when he catches it on the right wing, dribbles out the clock, and just throws up junk to beat the shot clock. Have him running around screens and getting catch and shoot opportunities, or curling after a couple dribbles where his defender is already behind him where he can pull up for the shot or drive it all the way in. His ability to create has been awful this year and he shouldnt be used in that role at all. Same thing goes for Redd this year, all of a sudden hes an isolation player and he's been AWFUL this year in that role. Those guys are at their best running around screens and yet their coaches are using them like theyre Lebron or Pierce, it's hard to watch.

[billfromBoston]

There is a parallel thread on Ray Allen that addresses the offensive woes.

Ray's game is simply a long way from what it has been for the last eight seasons, and especially the last two seasons.

Check out the numbers.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ray_allen ... stats.html

Scoring, free throw attempts per game, fg percentage, assists, rebounds, steals. In every area he is well below his career standard. These are all indications as a rule of an aging player or an injured one. Let us pray it is the latter. As the season drags on it becomes harder to believe that a guy who turns 33 this summer is going to get his game back to where it was in the past. What you see is what you get. The only good news: his turnovers are at a career low, and his free-throw shooting percentage is at a career high. But he is getting to the line a lot less.

The fall in Ray's game is striking. From 2000-2007 Ray was a top 25 player by almost any measure. Now, by Hollinger, he is not even a top 100 player, And by watching all the games I would be hard-pressed to put him in the top 75.

We all knew that Ray's ppg would decline, as would PP's and KG's, because he would get fewer shots. But we did not bargain that he would also become much less efficient offensively and less productive overall. I am not a Ray basher. I have been a huge fan for his entire career. I lived in Wisconsin when Ray was on the Bucks, and Seattle was my home in the 70s and 80s so I have always had a soft spot for the Sonics. I have seen him play a lot during his career.

So I am concerned. Our chances of winning the NBA title in 2008 decline sharply if this is the Ray we get in May and June. We need the Ray we traded for. With that Ray, frankly, I think we are the favorites come April.

...Elrod, your panicking...

The game is more complicated than simple stats...Ray Allen has played with the ball in his hands on 80 percent of his team's possessions for the past 5 seasons...that has changed drastically this season...his current role in the offense is to operate out of pick-and-roll situations as the ballhandler, which by rule, is a lower percentage offensive shot for him because its off the dribble...

Ray's career shooting may be 44.6, but his shooting this season is very close to his shooting last season-most consider that to be his best individual season...what's the difference beyond 2 percentage points? His opportunities and usage in the Celtics offense...even open shots are effected when you don't feel "in-rhythm" offensively...offense is about instinct, not thinking and second-guessing decisions...

In order for Ray (and Paul btw) to become more efficient scorers they have to play more TEAM offense and have less of the team offense run THROUGH them...right now Pierce is the designated ISO guy and Ray is the designated P&R guy...neither player comes off of screens with authority, looking to shoot right off the catch...they both go 3/4 speed while cycling off ball becuase they are both mentally preparing to square up and try to make something happen off the dribble...

The BIGGEST challenge for this team will be re-tasking Allen and Pierce to play effective TEAM offense and abandon a portion of their playmaking/ball-handling tendencies...

I think it will happen, but it may not take place until next year...we'll see...

[darrendaye]

Thanks for stopping by BFB, and I concur with your assessment and conclusions on this topic.

[Dakid21KG]

Agree'd but like Stephen said defense wins championships. Look at the spurs, they are not a good offensvie team but theyre defense is amazing. Look at the pistions, similar scenario. They have had there ups and downs, but that is the chemistry still tyring to find itself. They will be fine after all star break and everyone starts to pick up the pace.

[bawstin]

Agree'd but like Stephen said defense wins championships. Look at the spurs, they are not a good offensvie team but theyre defense is amazing. Look at the pistions, similar scenario. They have had there ups and downs, but that is the chemistry still tyring to find itself. They will be fine after all star break and everyone starts to pick up the pace.

They aren't high-scoring teams but they're very good offensive teams. When they need a basket they know how to get one using team offense. The celtics are still relying too much on iso's at the end of games.

The celtics are a little deceptive. Over the course of a game they usually score at a good clip, but on a given must-score possession they don't seem to trust the offense.