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In my book, it is pretty clear that Bill Russell is #1 and Larry Bird #2, but who takes the bronze medal?

Bob Cousy? The first real PG who was Magic before he came along?

Bill Sharman? The deadliest shooter on this planet until Jerry West came along?

Tom Heinsohn? The shooting F with the frozen rope (but highly effective) J who later became Johnny Most Jr.?

Sam Jones? The sharpshooter who simply was unable to miss in important games?

John Havlicek? The iron horse do-it-all who was both a superb sixth man and a superb starter?

Dave Cowens? The hothead MVP who fought a prime Kareem and managed to beat him 1-on-1?

Kevin McHale? Mr. Up&Under, who gave opponents fits with his low post moves and his D?

Robert Parish? The insanely durable never-change-that-face guy with that curious kiss-the-ceiling J?

My favs are Cousy, who narrowly beats Havlicek, but I am open to suggestions.

I wouldn't be so quick to annoit Bird over Havlicek, who could play 4 positions, which was a major reason he played on 8 Championship teams, and one near Championship
(1973's 68 win team, whose season ended when he dislocated his shoulder in game 2 of the ECF, losing in 7 games to the Knicks, the Ultimate Champion that year).

Bird got very favorable treatment his entire career; his ticky tack fouls on defense were no calls, while sidekick McHale got mauled at the offensive end, with an equal # of no-calls.

Think of it this way.

Havlicek would have done a respectable job guarding Bird;

Bird would have been unable to guard Havlicek.

And Havlicek, in his prime, routinely had games where he took 10-14 free throws. Havlicek had a lot more help early in his career.

Havlicek's best two seasons:

28.9 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 7.5 apg
27.5 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 7.5 apg

I see your point, but Bird was a starter all his career while Hondo was "only" a very good sixth man in his early years. Also, 3 MVPs vs 0 MVPs don't lie. Referring to Cousy, he was THE playmaker of his generation: NO ONE has won eight consecutive assists titles. I don't care if he could not shoot or defend, he was a revolution.

But I can def see why you would put Hondo as high as #2. The guy was a monster on O and D, and ran marathons on the hardwood w/o breaking a sweat.

I think Hondo is one of the most underrated players in the history of the NBA.

John Locke wrote:I think Hondo is one of the most underrated players in the history of the NBA.

Bingo. Few people realize when he retired he was the 5th leading scorer in NBA history. Was a fixture on the All NBA Defensive teams and was unbelievably clutch.

I understand why people are quick to anoint Bird and he may well have been the better individual player but Havlicek's run from 69-70 to the end of his career is only slightly less impressive than Bird's whole career never mind is HOF worthy part of the original dynasty.

The other thing about Larry, and understand I love Bird, is that he is the one Celtic great whose individual accomplishments outshined what his teams were able to do. I have always felt like the 80's Celts left a championship or two on the table. Because of that I don't think he can rank ahead of Hondo.

Russell, Bird, then Havlicek.

Cousy is the only other Celtic worth considering at #3.

wigglestrue wrote:Russell, Bird, then Havlicek.

Cousy is the only other Celtic worth considering at #3.

No love for Sam Jones or Dave Cowens? Jones won just as many rings and was INSANELY clutch, and Cowens was the leader of the Celtics in Hondo's time.

Point forward wrote:No love for Sam Jones or Dave Cowens? Jones won just as many rings and was INSANELY clutch, and Cowens was the leader of the Celtics in Hondo's time.

It's not that I have no love for those two, I do. It's that the other four are unquestionably greater. Let me make that as clear as possible: There is absolutely no way in hell that anyone except for Russell, Bird, Havlicek, and Cousy should be in this conversation.

wigglestrue wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



It's not that I have no love for those two, I do. It's that the other four are unquestionably greater. Let me make that as clear as possible: There is absolutely no way in hell that anyone except for Russell, Bird, Havlicek, and Cousy should be in this conversation.

To further this point. You can't have a conversation about the greatest of all time at Center, Point Guard, Shooting Guard, and Small Forward without discussing these 4 players. McHale is probably the only other career Celtic that enters that type of conversation.

No love for Antoine Walker???

wigglestrue wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
It's not that I have no love for those two, I do. It's that the other four are unquestionably greater. Let me make that as clear as possible: There is absolutely no way in hell that anyone except for Russell, Bird, Havlicek, and Cousy should be in this conversation.

Yup. I agree with this one. Personally, I would put Cousy ahead of Hondo, but those 4 are clearly ahead of the rest of the pack.

Gotta go with Hondo at #3. I give Bird the edge, but that may be because I saw a lot more Bird and was very young when Hondo played. Didn't see Russell play, but considering what he accomplished it's hard to dispute him at #1.

Dogen wrote:Didn't see Russell play, but considering what he accomplished it's hard to dispute him at #1.

Yeah, I think anything Celtics have to start with Red and Russell.

3a. hondo
3b. cousy

I would agree those top four are a little head of the rest. Also, I can respect some peoples opinion of flipping Bird and Hondo but like someone else mentioned I seen far more of Bird due to my age. So for that reason I would keep Bird number two.

I really don't understand why people like having these types of conversations so often. I don't think you really can make this comparison. Players play different positions and in different eras. The only way to say who is better is to have the play to against each other but even that is effected by your teammates, and coach. Basketball is a team game. Why are so many posters so damn concerned about ranking players?

also Jordon is the GOAT so it doesn't matter what celtic is better than another becuase none of them are as good as MJ. end of conversation, end of thread, end of thinking...

wigglestrue wrote:Russell, Bird, then Havlicek.

Cousy is the only other Celtic worth considering at #3.

That would be my exact order too.

Sharman

He was a 6'8 Center that won titles, and was also the best player on his team.... and went up against a top 5 player of all time in kareem.

I would go

1. Russell
2. Havlicek
3. Bird
4. Cousy
5. McHale

Havlicek gets the edge over Bird because he was a better defender and there was no 3pt shot in his time, he did all his work with just a 2pt shot. Both players were very clutch.

Point forward wrote:I see your point, but Bird was a starter all his career while Hondo was "only" a very good sixth man in his early years. Also, 3 MVPs vs 0 MVPs don't lie. But I can def see why you would put Hondo as high as #2. The guy was a monster on O and D, and ran marathons on the hardwood w/o breaking a sweat.

If Bird had competed against Abdul Jabbar in his prime, Bird would have O, ZERO, MVP's.

Bird's #'s were nice, but he never put up 35 ppg @ 56% and 17 rpg like Alcindor/Jabbar.
That was the year John Havlicek put up 28.9 ppg, 9 rpg and 7.5 apg.

But, while I have Havlicek at small forward on my All Time starting team, I have Bird at power forward, where I feel he was the best ever (Power, not small). There are too many small forwards that Bird could never guard, even with the generous refereeing that he received in the '80s.

Sam Jones is my All-Time favorite Celtic shooting guard, by the way.