Though KG is clearly the better player, would we have been a better team is Ainge could have gotten Gasol for the garbage Memphis took for him?
Would it have been Ratliff ( Browns Contact ) Telfair ( Crittendon equivalent) and 2 picks for Gasol?
My thinking is Jefferson and some of the other parts ( Gomes ) may have been still here once the smoke cleared.
Sorry if there is a thread like this out there already, I was in Mourning for the Pats.
Gasol instead of Garnett
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Gasol instead of Garnett
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lojowo
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bruno sundov
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I think it is a godd question. Remember last year MEM wanted more than jsut salary being dumped. They probably would have wanted Al. I want to say they did ask for him. In that case no, I would rather have what we got now.
Pau and Al would have been great but I still don't know if the team would be as good as they are now.
Pau and Al would have been great but I still don't know if the team would be as good as they are now.
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Ant
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I hate Gasol as a #1 option, but I love him as a #2/#3. It's possible that we probably would have a better team had we gotten Gasol for cheap. Here's the team...
PG. Rondo
SG. Ray Allen
SF. Paul Pierce
PF. Pau Gasoft
C. Al Jefferson
Granted, Pau and Al could switch positions and both are better off at PF. I just think Jefferson is more of a rebounder. A cheaper option may have been to NOT trade for Ray Allen, make/Trade the pick (Last year) and instead trade for Jayson Kidd. This linup would be good too...
PG. Kidd
SG. Paul Pierce
SF. James Posey
PF. Pau Gasoft
C. Al Jefferson
The ability to Keep jeffeson and add a quality big has a lot of value.
PG. Rondo
SG. Ray Allen
SF. Paul Pierce
PF. Pau Gasoft
C. Al Jefferson
Granted, Pau and Al could switch positions and both are better off at PF. I just think Jefferson is more of a rebounder. A cheaper option may have been to NOT trade for Ray Allen, make/Trade the pick (Last year) and instead trade for Jayson Kidd. This linup would be good too...
PG. Kidd
SG. Paul Pierce
SF. James Posey
PF. Pau Gasoft
C. Al Jefferson
The ability to Keep jeffeson and add a quality big has a lot of value.
Danny Ainge Owned me!
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theman
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It is arguable if we would have been a more talented team. I doubt we would be a better team.
I don't want to sound like a KG rump swab, and didn't think that highly of him when he was on the T-Wolves. But Garnett brought an attitude change to this team that Gasol would not have brought. First, KG brings great defensive intensity that was sorely lacking before his arrival. He also, returned the idea of team ball to the club that the Celtics haven't seen since Jim Paxson was the beneficiary of many an easy basket.
The level of play of this team has changed since KG's arrival. I remember watching a game last week when KG was out and being pleasently surprised at the extra passes, the movement without the ball and defensive effort. All of those, I think would not have existed without KG.
I don't want to sound like a KG rump swab, and didn't think that highly of him when he was on the T-Wolves. But Garnett brought an attitude change to this team that Gasol would not have brought. First, KG brings great defensive intensity that was sorely lacking before his arrival. He also, returned the idea of team ball to the club that the Celtics haven't seen since Jim Paxson was the beneficiary of many an easy basket.
The level of play of this team has changed since KG's arrival. I remember watching a game last week when KG was out and being pleasently surprised at the extra passes, the movement without the ball and defensive effort. All of those, I think would not have existed without KG.
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celticfan42487
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we'd be like ORL. Good young team.
Paul and Jefferson are both young and have a decade of play in them. Gasol is a little better then Jefferson defensively but they both have the same strength[man to man] and weakness[help] there.
If we got Gasol I'd like to think we would of spent some of the MLE on a PG like Boykins
Rondo/Boykins
Ray Allen/Tony
Pierce/Gomes
Gasol/Baby
AL/Perk
looks like the lineup to me. We'd never be serious contenders though we would have the next 10 years with Rondo/Gasol/Jefferson guaranteed to be good.
Paul and Jefferson are both young and have a decade of play in them. Gasol is a little better then Jefferson defensively but they both have the same strength[man to man] and weakness[help] there.
If we got Gasol I'd like to think we would of spent some of the MLE on a PG like Boykins
Rondo/Boykins
Ray Allen/Tony
Pierce/Gomes
Gasol/Baby
AL/Perk
looks like the lineup to me. We'd never be serious contenders though we would have the next 10 years with Rondo/Gasol/Jefferson guaranteed to be good.
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sully00
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As pointed out the price was higher a year ago and in the offseason. They wanted Al and Gerald. Even now you would be talking about giving up Rondo, not Telfair, and Theo and 2 firsts.
The market bottomed out on Gasol because everyone has seen how good the complimentary players that were in Memphis when they couldn't get out of the first round have done in different situations added to the fact that Memphis is just awful built around him right now. At least last season he was hurt and things were out of hand before he could do anything about it. Big Al is better than Gasol right now never mind a year or two from now but neither of them make a difference on the defensive end.
I am sorry but you can't see what is going on in POR and not wonder with the talent in Memphis that he isn't the problem. I can't say I watch a ton of the Griz but against the C's I have seen that guy put up some of the softest 20/10 around.
I am not saying he is the same guy or anything but everybody thought that Randolph would at least produce similiar numbers offensively in a different situation and not so much. Like I said I am not saying that Gasol is Randolph but he is a hell of lot closer to him than he is to KG.
The market bottomed out on Gasol because everyone has seen how good the complimentary players that were in Memphis when they couldn't get out of the first round have done in different situations added to the fact that Memphis is just awful built around him right now. At least last season he was hurt and things were out of hand before he could do anything about it. Big Al is better than Gasol right now never mind a year or two from now but neither of them make a difference on the defensive end.
I am sorry but you can't see what is going on in POR and not wonder with the talent in Memphis that he isn't the problem. I can't say I watch a ton of the Griz but against the C's I have seen that guy put up some of the softest 20/10 around.
I am not saying he is the same guy or anything but everybody thought that Randolph would at least produce similiar numbers offensively in a different situation and not so much. Like I said I am not saying that Gasol is Randolph but he is a hell of lot closer to him than he is to KG.
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celticfan42487
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Before you say that did you watch him last year and in his 50 win season?
He certianly is a lot closer to Randolph then KG. Only Duncan is further away from Randolph. But Gasol is a complete offensive post player. KG is a compelete offensive post player with HoF passing abilities at the PF position.
AL + Gasol would be able to work out offensively and do decently defensively.
He certianly is a lot closer to Randolph then KG. Only Duncan is further away from Randolph. But Gasol is a complete offensive post player. KG is a compelete offensive post player with HoF passing abilities at the PF position.
AL + Gasol would be able to work out offensively and do decently defensively.
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captain_cheapseats
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I doubt we'd be better this year with Gasol/Al instead of Garnett. Given the Celts record, it's hard to argue that there is any series of realistic trades that would have made us significantly better off this year. We are the odds on favorite to win the title right now, which is hard to improve upon.
However with that said, getting Gasol on the cheap might have been the better overall trade. This year instead of being "the" favorite, we'd have been "one of the" favorites. But we'd also continue to be one of the favorites well into the foreseeable future, while the current team has a shorter window. However since we're in pure hypothetical land, it should be pointed out that if Gasol were as cheap this summer as he ended up being for the Lakers, we could have easily had both Gasol and KG. But at the end of the day, like others have said, we couldn't have gotten Gasol this summer for the bargain the Lakers got him for.
However with that said, getting Gasol on the cheap might have been the better overall trade. This year instead of being "the" favorite, we'd have been "one of the" favorites. But we'd also continue to be one of the favorites well into the foreseeable future, while the current team has a shorter window. However since we're in pure hypothetical land, it should be pointed out that if Gasol were as cheap this summer as he ended up being for the Lakers, we could have easily had both Gasol and KG. But at the end of the day, like others have said, we couldn't have gotten Gasol this summer for the bargain the Lakers got him for.
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sully00
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celticfan42487 wrote:Before you say that did you watch him last year and in his 50 win season?
He certianly is a lot closer to Randolph then KG. Only Duncan is further away from Randolph. But Gasol is a complete offensive post player. KG is a compelete offensive post player with HoF passing abilities at the PF position.
AL + Gasol would be able to work out offensively and do decently defensively.
Yeah I have and I saw a team that should have won more than it did. They had good coaching and good defenders, perimeter shooters, they should have gone further. Sure he is good offensive player, he is talented but there is something just lacking in his game I think some of it for me is watching him crap out in that playoff series against the Mavs. Over the last two seasons he seems to just be out to get his numbers and that is not someone who you want to be paying max money to. I don't think he is going to hurt the Lakers, and they have Kobe and plenty of money, but I don't think he will be the same player production wise or a guy you can count on coming down the stretch in a playoff game.
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billfromBoston
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...while Gasol is not a franchise, number 1 option player, paired with other top players he is an extraordinary asset to have...he will play his best ball on the Lakers and make them extremely good...
..If the Celtics had made the Ray Allen Trade and then gone into the year and waited for Pau to shake loose they could have had him for a similar package, probably trading Gerald Green, Telfair, and Ratliff or something similar...a team of:
Pau/Jefferson/Pierce/Allen/Rondo...is clearly a contending team in the East and would have a very talented interior scoring combination that would be hard to defend with two top-end perimeter wings and a dribble penetrating PG...the idea that "they couldn't play defense" is a cop-out answer...they would certainly NOT be the defensive team that they currently are, but Perkins, Powe, TA, and Rondo still provide excellent defensive depth off the bench and Jefferson/Pau are pretty mobile and long, so layups wouldn't just be given away for free...
The thing to remember is this:
1. If you have the option of getting KG you take it when it presents itself, you don't wait around and hope another situation comes along
2. The Celtics would have gone into the year without Pau and with less expectation, so their record could easily have been closer to .500 than it is now, which means that Pau's arrival would have to spark a second half push toward home-court...
Now, its possible that Jefferson/Pierce/Allen would have really come together...Jefferson is playing UNREAL ball and if anyone has just been watching the box scores they should get League Pass and go watch the T-wolves-that team is putting it together and playing at a pretty high level right now...by next season they should be contending for the 8th seed and certainly should be above .500...
Regardless, revisionist history does no one any good...the Celtics made the right call by getting the better player when he was available...I'd love an All-Star frontcourt tandem, but i'll take what we've got and build around it....
..If the Celtics had made the Ray Allen Trade and then gone into the year and waited for Pau to shake loose they could have had him for a similar package, probably trading Gerald Green, Telfair, and Ratliff or something similar...a team of:
Pau/Jefferson/Pierce/Allen/Rondo...is clearly a contending team in the East and would have a very talented interior scoring combination that would be hard to defend with two top-end perimeter wings and a dribble penetrating PG...the idea that "they couldn't play defense" is a cop-out answer...they would certainly NOT be the defensive team that they currently are, but Perkins, Powe, TA, and Rondo still provide excellent defensive depth off the bench and Jefferson/Pau are pretty mobile and long, so layups wouldn't just be given away for free...
The thing to remember is this:
1. If you have the option of getting KG you take it when it presents itself, you don't wait around and hope another situation comes along
2. The Celtics would have gone into the year without Pau and with less expectation, so their record could easily have been closer to .500 than it is now, which means that Pau's arrival would have to spark a second half push toward home-court...
Now, its possible that Jefferson/Pierce/Allen would have really come together...Jefferson is playing UNREAL ball and if anyone has just been watching the box scores they should get League Pass and go watch the T-wolves-that team is putting it together and playing at a pretty high level right now...by next season they should be contending for the 8th seed and certainly should be above .500...
Regardless, revisionist history does no one any good...the Celtics made the right call by getting the better player when he was available...I'd love an All-Star frontcourt tandem, but i'll take what we've got and build around it....
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canman1971
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threrf23
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Gasol wouldn't have been a very good fit alongside Al, a question is if we could have gotten something for him in a three way. That depends on what Indy's asking price would have been for JO, perhaps. In the offseason I might have also proposed Ben Wallace, but he seems to have certainly fallen off a bit so that probably wouldn't have been a great suggestion on my end.
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celticfan42487
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sully00 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Yeah I have and I saw a team that should have won more than it did. They had good coaching and good defenders, perimeter shooters, they should have gone further. Sure he is good offensive player, he is talented but there is something just lacking in his game I think some of it for me is watching him crap out in that playoff series against the Mavs. Over the last two seasons he seems to just be out to get his numbers and that is not someone who you want to be paying max money to. I don't think he is going to hurt the Lakers, and they have Kobe and plenty of money, but I don't think he will be the same player production wise or a guy you can count on coming down the stretch in a playoff game.
okay yeah I can see your point. And I do agree, this year and last he was playing for stats on a crappy team wich killed Randolph's drive as a player. And I agree I don't want him as a #1 option. Then again I don't want Garnett as one either.
Everyone underestimated Gasol a year ago though [not saying you I meant in general] and it seems like everyone has given him crediate the past year for what he is. And I def hear what you're saying.
I agree with the few posters ahead of me too, Gasol certainly has some flaws and isn't a top 5 nba franchise player.