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Kidd to the Mavs??

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Post#21 » by hiphop1 » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:10 pm

theman wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



And NJ is at like 25. So do they make another trade or cut a bunch of guys.

I like the deal for Dallas. Terry isn't a true point and Harris I'm not sure "gets it" either. But he is the best thing they go in return. Dallas will move Terry to shooting guard. Diop isn't much. He is an okay defensive center, duplicates Sean Williams imo. The draft picks will be late first. Stackhouse is done. The only question is how much does Kidd have left in the tank.

So who can we pick up from this mess? Diop for a second round pick? Wait for Stackhouse to be bought out?


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Post#22 » by Spin Move » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:10 pm

the 2 firsts makes no sense to me, i can understand doing the trade for the rest of it, but if your sending out devin harris and jerry stackhouse and some young players and taking on Kidds huge salary then you dont send picks too
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Post#23 » by bruno sundov » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:18 pm

Great deal for both teams especially NJN.

Now NJN take Vince and anyone but rj,harris and Diop, and trade his ass to IND for JO. Now they would have something IF JO can all of a sudden get healthy.
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Post#24 » by GoGoCeltics » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:19 pm

Good trade for both teams, IMO. Dallas has to do SOMETHING to keep up in the crazy west. New Jersey has set up for its future.
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Post#25 » by Rocky5000 » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:26 pm

What is going on out west, it's like a major war out there. In the East we've got Lebron and Howard flying solo versus the Celts and Pistons. I just wonder how much worse it can possibly get out there. Next year Oden is going to be making the Blazers into a beast of a team.

ALSO what are the implications for the All-star game. Does this make Ray Allen into a starter? I think he was the 3rd guard in fan voting.
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Post#26 » by Dogen » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:30 pm

Good trade on both ends for different reasons, just like the PHX/MIA trade.

Now Kidd gets a better shot at a title, although I don't think this trade made Dallas as strong as LA, at least not if Bynum comes back healthy.

But Dallas is more potent for the next year or two. Now there are about 5-6 teams in the West that are really top tier. There are also a few that will likely be on a big decline in two years as the next wave (Oden/Roy, etc) comes together.

Great times! The playoffs are going to be more intense this year than last.
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Post#27 » by Rocky5000 » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:36 pm

The atlantic division just got much weaker though. I saw NJ as being the only team in our division that might be able to give us trouble in a post season matchup just because of their experience.
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Post#28 » by CelticsWhat! » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:50 pm

Rocky5000 wrote:What is going on out west, it's like a major war out there. In the East we've got Lebron and Howard flying solo versus the Celts and Pistons. I just wonder how much worse it can possibly get out there. Next year Oden is going to be making the Blazers into a beast of a team.

ALSO what are the implications for the All-star game. Does this make Ray Allen into a starter? I think he was the 3rd guard in fan voting.


I think the fact that Ray was 3rd in voting would've only come into play if Kidd was traded before the reserves were announced. After that, David Stern picks the replacements. But Doc does get to pick the starters, so it would be nice to put Pierce in there, seeing as how KG will be out.

BTW, you have the best avatar ever. :clap:
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Post#29 » by tombattor » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:09 pm

Rod Thorn is a genius. Not only does he get significantly younger at PG without losing any quality, the Nets add Diop, a defensive monster of a C, something the Nets sorely needed. And they add big time depth with Stackhouse and George. Plus 2 first round picks...
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Post#30 » by hiphop1 » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:09 pm

Rocky5000 wrote:The atlantic division just got much weaker though. I saw NJ as being the only team in our division that might be able to give us trouble in a post season matchup just because of their experience.


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Post#31 » by tombattor » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:18 pm

Rocky5000 wrote:The atlantic division just got much weaker though. I saw NJ as being the only team in our division that might be able to give us trouble in a post season matchup just because of their experience.

I disagree. The Nets got much better. Even this year.
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Post#32 » by bru87tr » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:41 pm

Rocky5000 wrote:The atlantic division just got much weaker though. I saw NJ as being the only team in our division that might be able to give us trouble in a post season matchup just because of their experience.


that is an awsome avatar!!!
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Post#33 » by threrf23 » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:43 pm

When I first saw this rumor on the wiretap I thought it was a bad move for Dallas, if whats currently on the wiretap is true -

"The Nets have agreed to trade Jason Kidd and Malik Allen to the Mavericks for Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse, Devean George, DeSagana Diop, Maurice Ager, two first-round picks and cash, sources tell Tony Mejia of CBSSports.com."

Then I think its a horrible trade for Dallas. Devin Harris is not Jason Kidd, but he is underrated and is continuting to improve his game, and was a decent fit for their roster. Diop is young and presumably still improving a little, helps their defense, and is key to their defense if and when Damper is injured. Stackhouse is the guy -outside of their "core" - who did the most to make Dallas a team with quality depth.

They had the best record in the league last season - largely as a result of their defense and quality depth. They got better in the offseason, largely due to Harris' offensive improvement, and by Diop's growth as well. Kidd may be better than Harris, but I'm not sure if that makes up for the loss of depth and Diop, and it leaves them in worse shape for the future as well. We'll see.

And Devean George / Ager might not be great, but Juwan Howard and Trenton Hassell now probably end up getting pt, and both of those guys suck
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Post#34 » by Relative Autonomy » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:43 pm

Datruth345 wrote:the west is crazy right now, its like the cold war over there

everyone is just loading up on weapons


except, like the Soviet Union, it is all painted rust and will crumble. Kidd is 34 and Dallas soft and has some psychological block in the playoffs.
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Post#35 » by JHTruth » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:48 pm

Kidd gives the Mavs a pair at long last. They're far too soft, too unfocused. They need toughness and leadership in a big way. Aside from the declining stats, that's why Dallas makes the trade..
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Post#36 » by chakdaddy » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:51 pm

This isn't a good trade for New Jersey. The picks will be low. Stackhouse is redundant with Carter/Jefferson. I've never been impressed with Devin Harris, and they already had a decent young PG in Marcus Williams. And Kidd is all that ever made their team decent.

On the other hand, Kidd has declined some, he is pretty old, with a few more trades they could improve things, and they save money.

As bad as it is for New Jersey, it's only bad on the level of the Iverson trade. It's not like the Gasol trade. Philly got Andre Miller at least. New Jersey got Devin Harris at least. Although I'd much rather have Miller than Harris, and I'd much rather have Kidd than Iverson...so NJ got hosed worse than Philly even.

Interestingly, it's not as commensurately as great a deal for Dallas. They gave up two players who are valuable to them but basically worthless to the Nets in Diop and Stackhouse.

Nets are now the worst team in the league. Other than Memphis.

I'll say this about trade evaluation though - small minds sure seem to think low draft picks and cap space are great returns in a trade. They think erasing a superstar player's value for nothing in return and making your team bad is the right idea. But the trick is to convert the superstar player's value for something else of value - like a high draft pick or Al Jefferson-, while at the same time making the team bad so you can get the high draft pick *at the same time* you have extra picks or developing young players.

If you're going to just bend over, let another team get your star for free, and then start from square one - you'd be better served by waiting another year or two and just letting your guy retire and getting the cap space that way. Then maybe the next time when you call the Laker's bluff you can get some value in return.

Doing it like Memphis is basically saying you'd rather be an expansion team at square one than be in your current situation. Doing it smart like Minnesota lets you be in the same situation except you also have Al Jefferson.

If you're mediocre, trading an old asset for a young asset AND hitting rock bottom and going to the lottery can be smart. Trading an old asset for nothing and hitting rock bottom isn't smart. You can always hit rock bottom, but you shouldn't waste the assets you already have to do so. Like if you're going to declare bankruptcy, a clever man might secretly "give" his few valuables to a friend with the expectation of them being given back when he's back on his feet.
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Post#37 » by DynastyInTheMaking » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:51 pm

Stackhouse is supposed to be bought out and sign back in Dallas and in a separate trade Antoine Wright is supposed to go to Dallas for two second rounders.

Along with getting Allen and/or Armstrong from the Nets throw in young talent such as Barea and a Fazekas who has lit it up in the D league, along with vets Eddie Jones, Brandon Bass, Eric Dampier, Trenton Hassell, Juwon Howard and a top 4 that is unmatched.....Dallas has certainly not dropped off.

The Nets while they still have enough to make the playoffs this year are looking at this trade more toward the future, the potential playoff experience this year can only help in building toward that future.
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Post#38 » by tombattor » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:52 pm

JHTruth wrote:Kidd gives the Mavs a pair at long last. They're far too soft, too unfocused. They need toughness and leadership in a big way. Aside from the declining stats, that's why Dallas makes the trade..

Well, obviously. But do you think this trade made them better? You can agree that this trade made the Nets much better in the coming years, right?
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Post#39 » by JHTruth » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:56 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Well, obviously. But do you think this trade made them better? You can agree that this trade made the Nets much better in the coming years, right?


I think they will be better. NJ is going young. I don't know, that usually doesn't produce results in the short term anyway. I think Dallas is much better with Kidd. Dirk just isn't a strong enough leader for them. Huge upgrad e for them there. For all his faults, kidd will bring that in for them big time..
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Post#40 » by chakdaddy » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:58 pm

DynastyInTheMaking wrote:Stackhouse is supposed to be bought out
The Nets while they still have enough to make the playoffs this year are looking at this trade more toward the future, the potential playoff experience this year can only help in building toward that future.


I was going to laugh hysterically until I realized that right now 3 sub .500 teams are in position to make the playoffs.

But, the team is bad right now...Kidd has declined, but this is a guy who made Kenyon Martin look like an All-Star. I'm not sure that other than Bird and Magic, if another guy ever made teammates better more than Kidd does. They're going to decline hard, and Jefferson and Carter will likely turn into fairly average players now.

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