Gooden's gone. Good.

Gant · Post #1 » by **Gant** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:24 pm

I have a thought on that Cleveland trade. They get Large Ben, Joe Smith, Wally and West, all of whom they need. They drop Hughes who was inconsistent. They're definitely a better team and are now a real finals contender.

One thing: I think that this trade helps the Cavs against every team in the East except one. That would be Boston.

The reason is that Gooden just kills the Celtics. With him gone the match ups are actually better for the green. I mean, do any of those new guys scare you?

I'm not sure how much we'll be able to tell in the Wednesday game, since the Celtics are coming off that long trip and Cleveland is adjusting to their new players, but for a possible playoff showdown I'm glad Gooden is elsewhere.

Post #2 » by **canman1971** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:54 pm

That was actually my first thought when the trade happened. I don't think Gooden is actually that good, but he always gave the Celtics' problems. Not sure why, but I am with you as far as him being gone.

grantlongforpresident · Post #3 » by **grantlongforpresident** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:06 pm

Gant - off course on this one.

Gooden is a bottom tier starting PF. Put another mediocre PF into his minutes and you'll get similar production.

If Gooden was traded for a future pick, then fine you might have a point, but Joe Smith/Ben Wallace is way better then Gooden - just like Wally Z/Delonte is way better then Larry Hughes.

Cleveland got Quantity & Quality in this trade. All they have to do is pony up some extra cash.

Post #4 » by **I love heinsohn** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:12 pm

grantlongforpresident wrote:Gant - off course on this one.

Gooden is a bottom tier starting PF. Put another mediocre PF into his minutes and you'll get similar production.

If Gooden was traded for a future pick, then fine you might have a point, but Joe Smith/Ben Wallace is way better then Gooden - just like Wally Z/Delonte is way better then Larry Hughes.

Cleveland got Quantity & Quality in this trade. All they have to do is pony up some extra cash.

I disagree. If Ben Wallace actually plays, then that is a huge plus for Boston. KG is one of the best help defenders in the league and with no one lock-down guy to take LeBron (Posey, TA, and Pierce probably all share the load) it is always good to have some extra help. I could even see Doc going crazy and letting KG take LeBron for a few possessions while Pierce just has to hold his position against Wallace.

GreenMachine · Post #5 » by **GreenMachine** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:16 pm

That funny...I heard the Cs were the #1 reason they made the move - thinking Wallace could slow down KG...

reggielewis · Post #6 » by **reggielewis** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:39 pm

haha that was my first thought too. For some reason Gooden just ABUSED us.. I think Clev has improved, but having had Wally and West on the C's I am not sold that they are goign to put them over the top as much as I respect them as players. HOWEVER we didnt have Lebron witht hem either so who knows..

floyd · Post #7 » by **floyd** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:43 pm

I love heinsohn wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I disagree. If Ben Wallace actually plays, then that is a huge plus for Boston. KG is one of the best help defenders in the league and with no one lock-down guy to take LeBron (Posey, TA, and Pierce probably all share the load) it is always good to have some extra help. I could even see Doc going crazy and letting KG take LeBron for a few possessions while Pierce just has to hold his position against Wallace.

I'm wondering if they'll be crazy enough to play Lebron at the 4 for stretches if we meet in a series. He's just so strong he should be able to hold position on KG. Then they throw at Wally, West, Pavlovic getting their best players on the court and stretch the floor. Hurts them defensively but gives LJ lots of room to operate.

GreenMachine · Post #8 » by **GreenMachine** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:24 pm

There is no way they will tire LJ out by making him work against KG. Maybe for a play here or there - but nothing more.

floyd · Post #9 » by **floyd** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:39 pm

I think he'd get a lot more tired chasing Ray around the court if they play LJ at the two when Wally's in there.

grantlongforpresident · Post #10 » by **grantlongforpresident** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:35 pm

I love heinsohn wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I disagree. If Ben Wallace actually plays, then that is a huge plus for Boston. KG is one of the best help defenders in the league and with no one lock-down guy to take LeBron (Posey, TA, and Pierce probably all share the load) it is always good to have some extra help. I could even see Doc going crazy and letting KG take LeBron for a few possessions while Pierce just has to hold his position against Wallace.

Gooden is a bad defender. Wallace is a good defender.
This will make Garnett's job more difficult, not less.

People overrate Gooden. It must be the beard.

humblebum · Post #11 » by **humblebum** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:12 pm

It will be interesting to see how Joe Smith and Ben Wallace work out playing next to Big Z. They sure are real deep up front with those three AND Varejao. I never worried much about Gooden but he definitely had some good games against the C's. He also was (when he was on) probably the best "scorer" of the bigs in the trade. Gooden could really hurt you on the offensive glass with putbacks and such but Joe Smith is more of a perimeter player and Ben can't make a free throw so they get a little bit less dangerous on the offensive boards. Outside of that I think they'll be really good up front. I'm really interested to see how that team comes together.

Gant · Post #12 » by **Gant** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:20 pm

LeBron's gonna get his. At the end of every game he'll have 30 to 40 points on Boston and fill up the rest of the stat sheet too.

The thing is, it's always Gooden that beats the Celtics. He's the one that makes the difference. LeBron is LeBron. Z does well too. But Gooden always has his best games.

Ben Wallace is the opposite. He doesn't match up that well against Garnett. He's too short and stays inside.

Overall Gooden is not that great. Against the Celtics he's Karl Malone.

grantlongforpresident · Post #13 » by **grantlongforpresident** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:23 pm

Gant wrote:Overall Gooden is not that great. Against the Celtics he's Karl Malone.

Two things

1) Malone: Gooden as Stockton: Telfair

2) Small sample size. If Gooden played the C's 1000 times you wouldn't be singing his praises.

heathmalc · Post #14 » by **heathmalc** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:26 pm

Well, we'll get a taste on Wednesday of things to come....but only a taste.

As for SG... People seem to forget that Sasha is the starter... He is an excellent defender! He shut down Kobe twice!!! To add to that, he is 6'7 and 240! They were calling him "white-LeBron"

cavsfan_osiris · Post #15 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:26 pm

grantlongforpresident wrote:Gant - off course on this one.

Gooden is a bottom tier starting PF. Put another mediocre PF into his minutes and you'll get similar production.

If Gooden was traded for a future pick, then fine you might have a point, but Joe Smith/Ben Wallace is way better then Gooden - just like Wally Z/Delonte is way better then Larry Hughes.

Cleveland got Quantity & Quality in this trade. All they have to do is pony up some extra cash.

I've heard a lot of analysis on the trade, but this is one of the best concise takes I've read on it.

Post #16 » by **UGA Hayes** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:39 pm

^ I think Gant made it pretty clear he didn't think Gooden was good, just that he has unreal games against us. We are probably one of the few fanbases who would actually be OK with getting gooden since his good games are always against us.

Marley2Hendrix · Post #17 » by **Marley2Hendrix** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:32 pm

Ben wallace is an average at best 1v1 defender, and considering KG loves the J, he'll just shoot over him anyway. I love this because you can't sag off Gooden who has a solid shot, but KG is free to wander and provide help D to his hearts content and Wallace struggles to score facing an unguarded layup.

Wally Z has no lateral quickness and either RayRay or Paul should and will ISO him every minute he's on the court in a playoff game.

I'm w/ gant on this one, I think this trade helps us.

As for Pavlovic, I've loved the kid since his draft class and cried for trades when Sloan's Euro-hating ass put him in the dog house by day 5. W/O gooden he'll be the guy all of us will hate when he plays good D on 1 of paul/ray and hits timely threes.

celticfan42487 · Post #18 » by **celticfan42487** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:39 am

I agree, I think it's ESPN simplication of the trade to say Gooden was making a lot of mid rangers, now they have Wallace and that won't happen. Wallace is just a name used for casual fans to see something happened.

You have to remeber Joe Smith has just as good of a shot as Gooden did.

And now instead of Larry Hughes shooting, those shots will go to one of Wally or West.

Think of Wallace as teh back-up Center. Now CLE is one of the few East teams with 2 actual Centers on their team. And AV + Smith at PF they really have a solid PF core too.

Cavs declared themselfs what they are, and that's a one man do everything team. And I think this trade pushed them as the better team then ORL for sure, lets see if they can catch up.

GreenGrizz · Post #19 » by **GreenGrizz** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:45 am

Gooden outplayed Garnett this year. I am happy to see him go.

TheCelticTruth · Post #20 » by **TheCelticTruth** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:17 am

i think gooden sucks, and have always said so. however, the fact is, he has played as well against us as anybody on cleveland the last few years. i cant say i think its better for us that they have wallace/west/wally...but i agree, its good that gooden is gone.

just like id never want to see aaron boone back on the yanks, no matter how much he (normally) sucks