kg scared to post up?

[celtsloyalty]

I watched the game yesterday specifically focusing on whether KG would post up because I noticed he hadn't been doing it much since he came back from the injury. I wasn't sure if it was my imagination or if Doc told him to take it easy down low for his first couple games back. So yesterday I watched the game down to 3 or 4 mins left and decided to go to bed, but to that point KG hadn't posted anyone up once the whole game. I actually got so annoyed in the 3rd quarter watching him take jumpshot after jumpshot that I almost turned the game off. Even when he was hitting them I was getting annoyed, because I know how versatile he can be.
I know that our offense hasn't been the problem lately, it was our defense. But before the injury and especially at the beginning of the season the Celtics were making a point to have KG post up and get him the ball. Having him inside spreads the court a lot better and gives the Celtics an inside presence, plus the ball can move from the inside out. Leon Powe and Big Baby are great especially on the offensive boards, but they obviously can't create the way KG does.
Hey if KG's taking it easy right now and not banging down low because of his injuries then fine, but otherwise I don't want to see his whole intensity pumping up the crowd bs untill he's actually playing the way he acts and attacking down low.
So do people think that KG's scared to play down low again because he doesn't want to get reinjured? or that the trainers want him to take it easy? Cuz I cant figure it out.

[TheCelticTruth]

KGs game has never been post up heavy. i doubt yesterday makes a good example due to wallaces ability to defend down low, obviously the gameplan would be for KG to draw him out

[dwestside]

He was playing closer to the block earlier in the season, I suspect come playoff time he'll go back to it. He's being cautious. Let's face it though, he's still not a banger, and he won't be Al Jefferson.

[Kaykoose]

I am sure KG will post up ALOT more in the playoffs. Just like Pierce will start slashing ALOT more in the playoffs. If you can win while saving/conserving energy/your body, then you do it.

[threrf23]

I'd like to see him pass out of the low post more too.

[celtsloyalty]

yeah I agree about the wallace thing I forgot to mention that. But still I would expect him to get the ball down low atleast 3 or 4 times just to make his presence known.

[celticfan42487]

I thought he posted up a decent amount of times except for the CLE game since coming back from injury.

Not posting up Wallace though has to get you wondering, maybe that was a good trade if it keeps KG shooting jays to open up the lanes.... of course it also was a meaningless regular season game so no one can know what will happen if the two teams meet in the postseason

[TheCelticTruth]

considering hes a great shooter as well, i have no problem with KG taking Js (great shooter for a big man and he knows his range limit)

[threrf23]

considering hes a great shooter as well, i have no problem with KG taking Js (great shooter for a big man and he knows his range limit)

I don't mind him shooting j's if we go small and are up against say Dwight Howard, and have forced Howard on KG, as it draws Howard out of the paint. I generally don't mind him shooting j's anyway, but I don't like it given our team because we've got other guys for that while lacking a solid and consistent low post threat without KG playing there.

I hate to see us go through the high post so often, in general. Even if the princeton offense has its merits and is similar in respects to the triangle offense, it was designed for college ball, and while ball is ball what works in the NCAA (i.e. Jim O'Brien / Rick Pitino type stuff) doesn't always work in the NBA. We should be making our own customizations to the offense...and here is where I have to admit ignorance because I don't know how effectively I could tell the difference between the Princeton offense and other offensive schemes easily while watching games.

[sully00]

Listening to people talk about "low post" play is like listening to them talk about "running the football." Why is style more important than substance?

You play to your match up. What Ben Wallace does well is defend the the 5 ft around the hoop and rebound, they aren't bringing any help on Garnett in the low post. On the other hand they have noone who can guard Allen and Rondo and LeBron has to man up Pierce. So if KG goes out to 18 feet then either Wallace has to go with him opening up the paint or he doesn't come at all which is what happened and KG was killing it early. He was 8 for 14 and only missed one shot in the first half. Added to that it was flop city in the paint, with side Show Bob, what did PIerce have 3 or 4 charges called in the paint?

As the Spurs have showed it isn't about playing one way it is about playing well anyway. How much better could KG have done going down low and banging with Wallace and Ilgauskas? I am not saying there isn't times I would wish KG would take into the post more this just isn't one of them. You take what the defense gives you. That was KG at 18ft and Wally World 3 steps behind Ray Allen.

[Red2]

I'd like to see KG use the power game more often but on the otther hand do you really want him getting beat up in the post? I say save it for the playoffs. Jefferson is a true low post player. the combination of him and a player like KG would have been frightening assuming Al would ever pass the ball. As much as I love Al and his post up game. KG brings so much more to the table. How many points did Bill Russell average? We won because of his defense and that's what KG brings. I would like to see KG get out on the break more a la Russell. that would be awesome

[tombattor]

Are you guys serious with this postup garbage? KG posts up when he has to. If the team's offense is stalling and we need a low post bucket, he'll post up. However, as sully said, you play the matchup and situation.

Why do people think there is only one way to play the game? Haven't you noticed that KG's trying to play off of guys like Ray and Paul? How often have you seen him post up and pass it off immediately? That doesn't mean he has no lowpost game and he'll never be Al Jefferson. It just means that he's able to recognize the defense quickly and is moving the ball around instead of letting it stick. Good ball movement leads to easier buckets and gets everyone moving and involved.

It's quite absurd how little so many of you know about basketball. FWIW, Zach Randolph is one of the best low post player. He's got a ton of moves and is very consistent with his offense inside. Does that mean we should trade KG for him, so we'll have a chance in the playoffs? Get real.

[ParticleMan]

I've learned this season that KG really isn't a post up player. I seem to recall him posting up more in Minny, but it might have also been because he had to. He really does seem to be a lot less effective in the low post, he gets the ball stolen and doesn't absorb the contact well. Luckily he is money with that 18 ft jumper. Plus he is a great passer out of the high post. So he brings a lot to the offense despite not being a post monster like Al or Zach.

Jumpshooting isn't bad when you can hit then. Al, for all his great post play, shoots 50%. Zach hits 46%. KG is at 54%. If he's more effective outside, that's great by me. It opens up the middle for Pierce, Ray, and Rondo anyway.

[cavsfan_osiris]

KG has always been more comfortable operating out of the high post more than low post.

[celticfan42487]

I don't know if anyone else has felt this way, but I always considered the diffrence between KG and Duncan is that Duncan played in the post. And that's what seperated them.

KG is a HoF PF and Duncan is a HoF Center. With the only diffrence beign mass so Duncan plays inside offensively.

[tombattor]

I don't know if anyone else has felt this way, but I always considered the diffrence between KG and Duncan is that Duncan played in the post. And that's what seperated them.

KG is a HoF PF and Duncan is a HoF Center. With the only diffrence beign mass so Duncan plays inside offensively.

You are right in that Duncan and KG's biggest difference is their mass. However, KG CAN post up inside. He has a go-to post move too, which is his fade away. Moves like up-and-under aren't the only low post moves. Patrick Ewing, if you remember, was one of the best low post players of his time and one of his best weapons was the fade away too. Same thing with Hakeem. He had his "Dream shake," but that usually leads to a fade away jumper, which was pretty much unstoppable.

The thing is, KG has a nice range on his jumper, which allows him to play a little further away from the basket than guys like Big Al, who's exclusively a low-post player. KG's also a fantastic passer out of the post (both low and high), and with the team he has around him, it makes sense for him to keep the ball moving than become a black hole in the post, trying to take his guy every time.

[celtsloyalty]

-= original quote snipped =-


You are right in that Duncan and KG's biggest difference is their mass. However, KG CAN post up inside. He has a go-to post move too, which is his fade away. Moves like up-and-under aren't the only low post moves. Patrick Ewing, if you remember, was one of the best low post players of his time and one of his best weapons was the fade away too. Same thing with Hakeem. He had his "Dream shake," but that usually leads to a fade away jumper, which was pretty much unstoppable.

The thing is, KG has a nice range on his jumper, which allows him to play a little further away from the basket than guys like Big Al, who's exclusively a low-post player. KG's also a fantastic passer out of the post (both low and high), and with the team he has around him, it makes sense for him to keep the ball moving than become a black hole in the post, trying to take his guy every time.

Exactly thats my point, I don't mind him taking jumpshots because he can create off of pumpfakes from 18 ft out but he also needs to make a presence in the paint. If he does that he can create from down low and the high post which confuses the other teams defense. Plus his offensive rebounding numbers are down.
By the way.. KG's shot selection stats for this year..
Shot Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
Jump 74% .469 58% 1% 9.5
Close 16% .631 62% 13% 2.8
Dunk 8% .979 83% 0% 2.0
Tips 1% .556 20% 0% 0.2
Inside 26% .731 68% 8% 5.1

[billfromBoston]

-= original quote snipped =-




Exactly thats my point, I don't mind him taking jumpshots because he can create off of pumpfakes from 18 ft out but he also needs to make a presence in the paint. If he does that he can create from down low and the high post which confuses the other teams defense. Plus his offensive rebounding numbers are down.
By the way.. KG's shot selection stats for this year..
Shot Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
Jump 74% .469 58% 1% 9.5
Close 16% .631 62% 13% 2.8
Dunk 8% .979 83% 0% 2.0
Tips 1% .556 20% 0% 0.2
Inside 26% .731 68% 8% 5.1

Now go get Tim Duncan's stats...you'll see they arent so different...

As Tombattor said above you (excluding the Jefferson tripe about "inside only"), KG DOES HAVE a very effective low post game, but his go-to move is the turn-around baseline jumper...this is a post move, but its a finish moving away from the hoop instead of toward it...this is still a post move, still creates space as a post move would, and is still executed at a very high percentage...

According to the stats above, 51% of KG's finishes are "inside" or around the basket...though 74% are jump shots...part of that 74% jump shot stat is the "inside" go-to baseline turn-around KG uses in the post...

I actually did a study on this during the summer to see how the two compared...both are equally as effecient in the post and Duncan only spends a marginal amount of time more in the post than KG...the difference is in the way in which they finish...Duncan does more hooks and forward finishing post moves, KG tends to go for space with his away finishing moves...

At the end of the day its the efficiency of those moves that count, not the aesthetics...as long as KG posts down on the low block he is doing his job...the recent lack of post play from him is probably an indication of where he is in terms of his rehab from the abdominal...post banging is rough on the core muscles...

The Cleveland game is good example of KG's versatility as an advantage, exploit the other team's weakness, don't play to its strength...

[celtsloyalty]

Now go get Tim Duncan's stats...you'll see they arent so different...

Whats your point? I never said anything about Tim Duncan.

As Tombattor said above you (excluding the Jefferson tripe about "inside only"), KG DOES HAVE a very effective low post game, but his go-to move is the turn-around baseline jumper...this is a post move, but its a finish moving away from the hoop instead of toward it...this is still a post move, still creates space as a post move would, and is still executed at a very high percentage...

I count that as a post move also, that's why I'm wondering why he hasn't been using it as much. He didnt use it once in the Cleveland game.

According to the stats above, 51% of KG's finishes are "inside" or around the basket...though 74% are jump shots...part of that 74% jump shot stat is the "inside" go-to baseline turn-around KG uses in the post...

Ok so say that puts his close shot attempts percentage up to 25% a game, he took 0% in the Cleveland game. Obviously making his presence known in the low post can open up more oppurtunities for the whole team.

I actually did a study on this during the summer to see how the two compared...both are equally as effecient in the post and Duncan only spends a marginal amount of time more in the post than KG...the difference is in the way in which they finish...Duncan does more hooks and forward finishing post moves, KG tends to go for space with his away finishing moves...

I didn't bring Duncan up..

At the end of the day its the efficiency of those moves that count, not the aesthetics...as long as KG posts down on the low block he is doing his job...the recent lack of post play from him is probably an indication of where he is in terms of his rehab from the abdominal...post banging is rough on the core muscles...

Did you read my original post? One of the last things I said was do people on this board think that KG is scared to bang down low right now because of his injury or maybe the trainers told him not too. That was the point of this post, not to knock KG if he's injured but to say that if he's alright to bang down low 16% of the time then he should because it gives the defense a different look.

The Cleveland game is good example of KG's versatility as an advantage, exploit the other team's weakness, don't play to its strength.

Yes so I would expect more jumpshots but Ben Wallace played 25 mins and Big Z 27 mins, so KG had oppurtunities to bring it down low.

[GuyClinch]

KG does have a low post game - it's just that many of his moves are fade away J's rather then up and under /drop step type moves. This is why Al is seen as a low post player and KG a "jump shooter."

Seems to me that most of the time KG would go to an "inside pivot" move where he creates space between him and his defender vs. an outside pivot where he goes into his defender (the kind of move that Al Jefferson would do).

Either way like most pros he has the full array of moves from the post - he just favors the space creating ones alot more then the ones that cause contact..

Pete