Absence of international players on the Celtics

[Fencer reregistered]

I can think of a number of reasons for the Celtics to lack international players:

1. They visibly -- perhaps too visibly -- wanted Gasol and Nowitski in the draft. They just didn't happen to get them. And they happened to make a trade instead of drafting Yi.
2. El Cheapo Gaston underinvested in international scouting.
3. Wallace and Papile aren't the smoothest, most internationally cosmopolitan guys.
4. The international guys who have come to the Cs didn't happen to work out.
5. Ainge made big investments in American high schoolers and 30+ year old vets, neither group of which has a lot of international members.

Still, it's striking when you consider that almost every other contending team has a strong international contingent (Detroit is the other exception).

A. San Antonio -- Parker, Ginoboli, and more
B. Phoenix -- technically Nash. Also Barbosa, Diaw.
C. LA -- Gasol.
D. NO -- Peja.
E. Utah -- Kirkilenko, Okur
F. Orlando -- Turkoglu (OK, not the biggest example, but more than the Cs)
G. Cleveland -- I won't try to spell them.
H. Toronto -- most of the team, except Bosh.
I. Dallas -- Nowitski

If they become contenders as currently constituted, Chicago (Deng, Nocioni) would be an example, as of course would Houston, while Portland -- with apologies to Sergio Rodriguez -- wouldn't.

[greenbeans]

screw Cassell, sign Jiri!!!!!

[ParticleMan]

1. I think foreign players have been overvalued in the last few years. Ainge always looks for value in the draft.

2. Ainge almost always drafts above-average rebounder and/or defenders. Euros are often not above average in those categories.

[Fencer reregistered]

2. Ainge almost always drafts above-average rebounder and/or defenders. Euros are often not above average in those categories.

Hmm. Let's consider that one.

A. San Antonio -- false
B. Phoenix -- true
C. LA -- at least as true as not
D. NO -- true
E. Utah -- half true, half false
F. Orlando -- true
G. Cleveland -- false
H. Toronto -- true
I. Dallas -- partly true, partly false (less true when Diop was there)
J. Chicago -- false

You may have hit on part of the reason.

[alwayslovetheceltics]

Fencer, I generally like your posts, but this post is crap.

Aigne has gotten players on the basis of talent and mix. period. it just so happens that the best fit for us now didn't include any foreign players.

there is no reason to go out and get foreign players just to get foreign players. it just so happens, that he didn't have the opportunity to go out and get players that added to the talent or mix that he wanted.

for example in the past 2 years, we have had an unbelievable amount of posts calling for crappy players like sergio and saras. both of these guys have done nothing in the nba, and yet, b/c they were foreign, they had a certain amount of appeal, and we had numerous posts calling for the celtics to sign them. think about how much that would suck right now, that is, instead of having rondo, we would have crappy players like saras or sergio b/c ainge wanted to go get foreigners.

[ParticleMan]

I think Ainge just prefers to look a little further than Earth for his roster.

[GregB]

Screw all those teams. We are Team America!!

[Fencer reregistered]

I think Ainge just prefers to look a little further than Earth for his roster.

I've been expecting that joke ever since I started this thread!

[Fencer reregistered]

Aigne has gotten players on the basis of talent and mix. period. it just so happens that the best fit for us now didn't include any foreign players.

Agreed.

I never suggested it was bias. Just an interesting anomaly. Indeed, the most naive bias arguments would favor getting the white guys.

Maybe there's a real scouting-weakness issue. Maybe it's comparative advantage, due to Ainge's SUPERIORITY at scouting Americans. Maybe it really is a play-energy thing (Ainge's acquisition of Jiri Welsch worked out OK only because there was a greater-fool buyer for him).

Probably it's a little of everything, plus a lot of coincidence.

[sox839]

First there are only a handfulof great internationalplayers and don't count Nash as he played at an american college lets count eastern hemisphere and south american players who didn't play our college game. Ainge is smarter at drafting than any GM in the last few years. Most teams in the second round take a chance on little known international guys while ainge is drafting established college players. College basketball has better competion and is closer to the american pro game than international basketball. If you look at ainges drafts most of his second rounders were contributors in the nba. Your better off drafting college guys most international guys don't rebound orblock shotsorplay defense the exception being andrei kirelenko. the best internationals are drafted to high for the elts tobe able to get one or a solid college player was available. Very rare does asecond round international pan out into a star the exception being manu ginobli. It rarely happens its overrated and the best international guys are well known and aren't unknowns anymore. Looking at the celts past internationals they have had by drafting or trading only dino radja amounted to anything. You have guys like stojko vrankovic, jerome moiso who actually played in american college, Jiri welsch, josip sesar, albert mirales, ben pepper. Drafting international is a waste lokk at the sonics they drafted two international centers both limited and overrated. I'll take a guy like big baby,powe or gomes any day over most of the internationals that drafted in the low first early second. They keepplaying up this nathan jawai he will wither get drafted to igh for us or he'll be drafted by soemone else. Give me a devon hardin, trent plaisted , david padgett,richard hendrix over any of these internationals in the upcoming draft.

[Jammer]

1. You can't criticize the 2007 (Gabe Pruitt & effectively Glen Davis)
or brilliant 2006 (Rajon Rondo & Leon Powe) drafts.

2. Although in 2005 Gerald Green was taken ahead of
Hakim Warrick, Nate Robinson, Jarret Jack, Jason Maxiel, David Lee and Monta Ellis,
none of those alternatives are international.

Ryan Gomes was a fantastic pick at # 50.

3. 2004 was Al Jefferson, Delonte West and Tony Allen. The biggest hindsight move would probably be Kevin Martin, Anderson Varejao (first international option) or Trevor Ariza over Delonte West.

So, fencer..., my friend, there were not a lot of alternatives.

However, now that the Celtics will likely be picking #30 and #60 this year; it is quite possible that Danny will try to emulate Jerry Krause and stash a future Tony Kukoc at #30; or emulate Don Nelson or R. C. Buford and get a Manu Ginoboli at # 60.

Actually, if Danny doesn't trade or sell the #60, it would not surprise me at all if they draft a South American or Euro and wait a few years on him.

[Scal for 3]

Scal is an international player...

Internationally known as a pimp, that is

[ARB729]

Scal is an international player...

Internationally known as a pimp, that is

Umm, what?

[Datruth345]

as Jammer pointed out and I was prepared to say

the opportunities to get these foreign players just hasn't been there in addition to there not being alot of strong foreign talent latley

here is a recent article on the subject

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2007/12/16/international_flavor_not_to_every_teams_taste/

[JiriMania]

screw Cassell, sign Jiri!!!!!

QFT

BRILLANT!

Jiri FTW

[Celts09]

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/alexisajinca.html

he might enter the draft this year. maybe he cane be our first international player.
says he needs to stay hungry so he can gain some weight. That wont be a problem if he can become friends with Big Baby

[campybatman]

I wonder why this is a constant topic that is brought up in regards to Boston. In my opinion, every team today is different as is their opportunities to draft or sign foreign born players. A poor judgment in evaluating foreign talent can be a waste of a draft selection. You've to consider if this player's specific skills could translate well in the NBA. Conversely, one team's oversight can be another team's good fortune. I mean style of play and/or head coaching can dictate how well and how quickly a foreign player can get accumulated to his new team and adapt to the challenges he'll faces learning the American rules and the speed of the game. In some cases, the issue of a foreign player's team's contract buyout situation can create concerns. Or it'll test your patience in the front office.

For Boston, it has been a matter of a standout foreign player simply being out of reach to draft. The interest could be there but is he available to select where they're selecting? Also, it can be an instance of chance. You take a chance on a player that doesn't go higher because teams often select American born players ahead of them. From this, the foreign player might drops down to the playoffs teams drafting in the bottom half which puts these teams in the likely position of taking a flier on him without much lost if he doesn't pan out.

Hopefully, now that the Celtics are winning and being good enough to qualify for the playoffs. They too can afford to take low level risks on a foreign player with considerable upside but lesser name recognition. That is, if Ainge sees fit to select a worthy foreign talent in the first round or perhaps in the second round if they're without a first round pick.

[UGA Hayes]

The problem is that we didn't really make the right international draft choices when their stock was still undervalued i.e when Dirk, Peja, AK were coming into the league. I think most of those guys were already showing promise at senior levels before they were drafted (with the exception of Dirk who I guess was a real gamble at the time).

Then perhaps luckily for us, the pendulum swung the other away and teams started prospecting on guys who weren't near making senior teams. Luckily b/c we didn't have high draft choices when the prospecting (BUSTS) went on.

That we don't have one through FA or trade I think is sheer circumstance and opportunity.

[bballcool34]

A. San Antonio -- Parker, Ginoboli, and more
B. Phoenix -- technically Nash. Also Barbosa, Diaw.
C. LA -- Gasol.
.

Add Sasha to the Lakers- he's been playing well lately.

[TheDevilsReject]

Man what I would do to unload a couple of our euros on you guys.

We just keep dumping our american players for euros