Thought it would be interesting to start a conversation on Larry Hughes insane decision to tell reporters he would rather get his numbers than win. I've always thought this was the one variable that was tough to account for when we evaluate players.
We've already heard Marion's comments and no doubt ther are a decent amount of players for who winning is not a priority. Are there any celtics players currently or in the past that you felt had Larry hughes attitude.
No saying Blount either. Thats too easy.
EDIT: Here is the link by the way
http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/
OT: Larry Hughes comments (Loser Alert)
Moderators: bisme37, Froob, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts, Parliament10, canman1971, shackles10, snowman
OT: Larry Hughes comments (Loser Alert)
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UGA Hayes
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SuperDeluxe
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bruno sundov
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Fatoine was concerned with winning as long as he got 20 points. If he didn't he could probably care less. I think it was Fatoines rookie or second year he had 2 or 3, 40 point games in a row. And didn't really understand why the fans were pissed. Oh yeah, the Celts lost every one of those games also. He didn't really get it.
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DelMonte West
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Ricky Davis has had that rap for a long time. Obviously the pseudo-triple-double incident speaks for itself, but Jackie MacMullan had an article saying he always kept track of his field goal attempts IIRC.
For all the talk about Walker "bleeding green" and giving "110%", he always struck me as a guy that went out of his way to get his stats for the sake of bragging rights.
For all the talk about Walker "bleeding green" and giving "110%", he always struck me as a guy that went out of his way to get his stats for the sake of bragging rights.
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canman1971
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UGA Hayes
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^ Yeah when I was younger it was unimaginable that people didn't play to win, sure people might have played selfishly but I never thought that winning wasn't important to them. Its one of the major dissapointments of pro sports that some people can make it to the top level without that motivation.
Makes you appreciate it when you pick up guys who say stuff like this
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... in_boston/
Makes you appreciate it when you pick up guys who say stuff like this
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... in_boston/
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sully00
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I think people are pretty out of line with criticizing guy for being honest. Keep in mind Paul Pierce is this kind of guy, that is why he is still a Boston Celtic, hell KG and Ray Allen are that kind of guy. that is why KG stayed in MINN and Ray stayed in SEA instead of filling the exact same role Hughes has had for the past 3 or so years.
Hughes didn't say winning wasn't important. He said it wasn't more important than being happy.
Frankly people are so two faced. What you want is winning is everything guys but to be that way you kind of lack a moral compass.
The NBA is the guys job, would you really sacrifice all of your individual success, role, and happiness in the prime of life to be a part of the big company but have no hope of advancement? Or would you take the gig with a slightly lesser company but with more individual success, the role you love and a chance to be the guy that is credited with some of the success if it comes.
Hughes didn't say winning wasn't important. He said it wasn't more important than being happy.
Frankly people are so two faced. What you want is winning is everything guys but to be that way you kind of lack a moral compass.
The NBA is the guys job, would you really sacrifice all of your individual success, role, and happiness in the prime of life to be a part of the big company but have no hope of advancement? Or would you take the gig with a slightly lesser company but with more individual success, the role you love and a chance to be the guy that is credited with some of the success if it comes.
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e in boulder
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John Locke
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BrokenLeftyJumper
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I agree with Sully and Pete on this one. I think Sully's comparison with working for a big-time company doing something you don't like vs. working on a smaller scale but having more individual freedom and being happier, is spot on.
As fans, its always easy to say winning is everything. Its a very narrow way to look at things. Lets face it, on a larger scale, winning isn't everything. You win, or you lose, life goes on. The real end all be all is being happy. For some players, winning creates happiness. For others, it doesn't. Many times the 'win at all costs' type people are the unhappiest people around. One loss tears them up and they are miserable, and no matter how much they win, they are never satisfied. I used to play ball with that attitude, and in the end, it made basketball less enjoyable because I'd be thinking all damn day about the pick up game I lost the day before or something.
Fans naturally have the 'win at all cost' mentality, but I don't blame some of the players for not having it. When it comes to your job and your life, the real key is just enjoying life. And if Larry wasn't enjoying his life on the Cavs, I'm not gonna hate on him for being happy on a worse team.
As fans, its always easy to say winning is everything. Its a very narrow way to look at things. Lets face it, on a larger scale, winning isn't everything. You win, or you lose, life goes on. The real end all be all is being happy. For some players, winning creates happiness. For others, it doesn't. Many times the 'win at all costs' type people are the unhappiest people around. One loss tears them up and they are miserable, and no matter how much they win, they are never satisfied. I used to play ball with that attitude, and in the end, it made basketball less enjoyable because I'd be thinking all damn day about the pick up game I lost the day before or something.
Fans naturally have the 'win at all cost' mentality, but I don't blame some of the players for not having it. When it comes to your job and your life, the real key is just enjoying life. And if Larry wasn't enjoying his life on the Cavs, I'm not gonna hate on him for being happy on a worse team.
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JiriMania
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I agree with Clinch and J. Locke, I don't see the controversy. He never came out and said his numbers mean more, it didn't seem like a flashy show of individualism, it seemed more introverted.
It may be that basketball is NOT the most important thing in his life.
He is not a bad person, and he realizes i'm sure there are more important things in life than basketball. I'm sure he would give it all up for just one more day with his brother.
Does it account for his poor play the last couple of year? probably. the great ones have that unquestioned drive to win.
The controversary though should be not that Hughes is only concerned with getting his numbers, but that he doesn't have that type A personality. Its not that he doesn't care about winning, he just knows, at the end of the day, there is more important things in the world.
It may be that basketball is NOT the most important thing in his life.
On May 2, 2006 Hughes was recipient of the inaugural Austin Carr Good Guy Award, designed to recognize the Cavaliers player who is cooperative and understanding of the media, the community and the public.
Whereas Hughes' career has been plagued with injuries, his younger brother Justin's life included a serious medical condition that resulted in his death at the age of 20 on May 11, 2006.
He is not a bad person, and he realizes i'm sure there are more important things in life than basketball. I'm sure he would give it all up for just one more day with his brother.
Does it account for his poor play the last couple of year? probably. the great ones have that unquestioned drive to win.
The controversary though should be not that Hughes is only concerned with getting his numbers, but that he doesn't have that type A personality. Its not that he doesn't care about winning, he just knows, at the end of the day, there is more important things in the world.
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Feed Your Head
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/w...index.html
People can say what they want about his comments, but anybody calling him a loser or hope he loses his money needs to read this story above. Hughes is a good guy who has went through alot the last 12 years or so. His brother had a heart condition which eventually took his life at 20 and Larry worked his life around it and everything he did from college to the Nba was to help out his brother.
So i dont blame the guy for just wanting to enjoy the game first and foremost, i mean its not like he doesnt want to win, its just not the most important thing.
People can say what they want about his comments, but anybody calling him a loser or hope he loses his money needs to read this story above. Hughes is a good guy who has went through alot the last 12 years or so. His brother had a heart condition which eventually took his life at 20 and Larry worked his life around it and everything he did from college to the Nba was to help out his brother.
So i dont blame the guy for just wanting to enjoy the game first and foremost, i mean its not like he doesnt want to win, its just not the most important thing.
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JiriMania
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canman1971 wrote:This is what bothers me most. A guy who has all the money you could ever want and doesn't deserve it. We'll be talking about him in 5 years and how he is broke and losing his home, and I can't wait.
I think this is totally off base. Like the big_MAtt said, this guy has based his life up until last year on caring for his brother/ family. If he wants to enjoy life now, let him, he's not the type of guy to go out and buy a yacht so that he can say "My yacht is bigger than yours."
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UGA Hayes
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I'm sorry but I don't think its too much to ask a guy to fit in on a basketball court. This is not equivalent to a company, and when Larry signed a huge contract he forfeited his right to have a say in this matter.
Additionally he has a lot of people depending on him to give maximum effort and he has a responsibility to the people who are setting him up for life.
This is doubly worse to me b/c he was in a situation where he was the second option and in aa system which is called random for heavens sake meaning he could usually do what he wanted on a team with legit championship aspirations
As for Paul when he behaved those years like a spoiled brat people did call him out. Luckily we brought Doc in just in time to at least to change him somewhat. I'm stunned by some of the responses in this thread. Honesty isn't some eraser that wipes clean all the other character flaws a person admits to having. I'm sure Blount would admit the same thing as Larry, would we be patting him on the back for that.
Also I think people need to get real that this isn't an admission that he wasn't playing as hard as he could.
Additionally he has a lot of people depending on him to give maximum effort and he has a responsibility to the people who are setting him up for life.
This is doubly worse to me b/c he was in a situation where he was the second option and in aa system which is called random for heavens sake meaning he could usually do what he wanted on a team with legit championship aspirations
As for Paul when he behaved those years like a spoiled brat people did call him out. Luckily we brought Doc in just in time to at least to change him somewhat. I'm stunned by some of the responses in this thread. Honesty isn't some eraser that wipes clean all the other character flaws a person admits to having. I'm sure Blount would admit the same thing as Larry, would we be patting him on the back for that.
Also I think people need to get real that this isn't an admission that he wasn't playing as hard as he could.
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JiriMania
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I agree that he is not playing as hard as he could, but its not about his numbers, he just doesn't care about basketball as much as he could, and after all he has been through, i wouldn't crucify him for it.
The difference with Pierce is that he acted childish and immature on the floor. If after his stabbing he had moved to India and become a buddist monk no one would have blamed him. But he has that winners mentality and he is driven by his mark on the game and his legacy as a player (Pierce has been cited as a huge Basketball history buff).
Now Hughes should porbably not be paid as much as he is, but whats done is done, the contract is guranteed. If he suddenly explodes in his next contract year, I will agree with you and bow to your points, but until then, I think he just found something more to worry about than whether he wins an NBA championship or not. Hughes is driven by something else... family maybe, but I don't think it is his stats.
Would you rather have him old, grumpy and miserable like Sir Charles Barkley?
The difference with Pierce is that he acted childish and immature on the floor. If after his stabbing he had moved to India and become a buddist monk no one would have blamed him. But he has that winners mentality and he is driven by his mark on the game and his legacy as a player (Pierce has been cited as a huge Basketball history buff).
Now Hughes should porbably not be paid as much as he is, but whats done is done, the contract is guranteed. If he suddenly explodes in his next contract year, I will agree with you and bow to your points, but until then, I think he just found something more to worry about than whether he wins an NBA championship or not. Hughes is driven by something else... family maybe, but I don't think it is his stats.
Would you rather have him old, grumpy and miserable like Sir Charles Barkley?
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s1ickd
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athletes aren't martyrs. it isnt in their contract for them to put their career, family, and job satisfaction on the line just so fans can get drunk and celebrate championships. it's a GM's job to build a championship team. A player is going to play the brand of basketball they were hired for.
There are only 10 guys in this league that can actually have an impactof whether or nottheir team can realistically win a title or not. What do the rest of the people do? fulfill a role and collect a check. it's an entertainment business.
The only thing that makes me upset is when someone doesn't play up to their role or contract. Gauranteed contracts in the NBA make this problem stand out more. This isn't a problem in the NFL. Guys like Blount, Tim Thomas, Stephon Marbury, Eddy Curry, etc. would be begging for a second chance at a price that's a fraction of what they currently get paid.
Instead, they're uneducated fools who think they're better than you because someone was stupid enough to give them money.
There are only 10 guys in this league that can actually have an impactof whether or nottheir team can realistically win a title or not. What do the rest of the people do? fulfill a role and collect a check. it's an entertainment business.
The only thing that makes me upset is when someone doesn't play up to their role or contract. Gauranteed contracts in the NBA make this problem stand out more. This isn't a problem in the NFL. Guys like Blount, Tim Thomas, Stephon Marbury, Eddy Curry, etc. would be begging for a second chance at a price that's a fraction of what they currently get paid.
Instead, they're uneducated fools who think they're better than you because someone was stupid enough to give them money.
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UGA Hayes
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Also Pierce never stopped playing hard or said he would rather have fun than win, in fact Pierce has always done the opposit of that. This isn't even a rant on selfishness. Pierce and Kobe have been selfish but you knew they were playing pretty dang hard, putting their bodies on the line etc.
Hughes isn't even doing that. Also I don't understand this attitude where you don't do your job b/c you essentially don't feel like it. We aren't talking about coal miner or a car manufacturer or a dead end type job.
We are talking about one of the premier jobs in the world. If you are unhappy suck it up play hard the remainder of your contract, and go somewhere you think will be a better fit next time. Don't screw the people around you from the players, to the execs, to the paying customer, to the janitor who are all depending. How selfish can you be.
Hughes isn't even doing that. Also I don't understand this attitude where you don't do your job b/c you essentially don't feel like it. We aren't talking about coal miner or a car manufacturer or a dead end type job.
We are talking about one of the premier jobs in the world. If you are unhappy suck it up play hard the remainder of your contract, and go somewhere you think will be a better fit next time. Don't screw the people around you from the players, to the execs, to the paying customer, to the janitor who are all depending. How selfish can you be.