ImageImageImage

Peter Vecsey at his "best" (Cassell related)

Moderators: bisme37, Froob, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts, Parliament10, canman1971, shackles10, snowman

P2
Banned User
Posts: 4,759
And1: 1
Joined: Dec 18, 2006
Location: Beantown

Peter Vecsey at his "best" (Cassell related) 

Post#1 » by P2 » Tue Mar 4, 2008 2:26 pm

Link

Sam Cassell's propensity to pound, it says here, does not really mesh with the Celtics, who look their best when passing following two dribbles tops - as long as Paul Pierce plays along.

Cassell's imminent signing conflicts with Danny Ainge's feel for the game; he was not Sam I Am's biggest fan when he tried to coach him in Phoenix. In order to force him to pass, Ainge would call a post-up for Cassell and beg the opposition to double.

In other words, this pickup is all about appeasing Kevin Garnett, who enjoyed his lone longest playoff run in '01 (Western finals; all the rest were one round and done) alongside Cassell (working the pick-and-roll to perfection, no doubt) and Latrell Sprewell.

A ready-made faction is not what the Vitamin C's need coming down the home stretch. They also can do nicely without a slow point guard who can't defend, the exact opposite of why they've been so successful.

I also don't like giving Doc Rivers an option when Rajon Rondo commits a particularly grievous turnover or misses two straight open jumpers. The temptation is to substitute experience belonging to someone who played a pivotal part in two titles his first two years in the league in the mid-'90s.


Where in the heck does he get his information from? All of what is bold is completely made up. Garnett played with Cassel and Sprewell in the 2004 (not 2001 :roll:) West Finals, and when did Rondo miss two straight jumpers the last time? Rondo hits the open ones, missed contested shots.
User avatar
SuperDeluxe
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 23,969
And1: 23,675
Joined: Feb 23, 2003
Location: Celtic Nation
   

Re: Peter Vecsey at his "best" (Cassell related) 

Post#2 » by SuperDeluxe » Tue Mar 4, 2008 2:30 pm

P2 wrote:In other words, this pickup is all about appeasing Kevin Garnett


Everybody knows Garnett needs some appeasing these days. Peter Vecsey is spot on, as usual.
User avatar
cisco
Veteran
Posts: 2,738
And1: 48
Joined: Nov 14, 2005

 

Post#3 » by cisco » Tue Mar 4, 2008 2:35 pm

LOL. If the Cavs or Pistons had picked him up it would make them favorites to win it all. :roll:
John Locke
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,957
And1: 38
Joined: Nov 28, 2004

 

Post#4 » by John Locke » Tue Mar 4, 2008 2:48 pm

Seriously, what is May's background in basketball? Was he a player? Was he a coach?

He doesn't seem to understand players.
sully00
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 28,105
And1: 7,738
Joined: Jan 08, 2004
Location: Providence, RI
       

 

Post#5 » by sully00 » Tue Mar 4, 2008 2:57 pm

This is Vecsey not May, May thinks this is great he knows who PJ and Sam are.

To be fair Vecsey is right about Sam. What he is wrong about is the C's. This isn't about replacing Rondo, this is about replacing House because he causes Pierce and Ray (who is even worse) to pound the ball when Rondo is out of the game. If we are going to grind it in the half court anyhow we would be better served doing it with Sam than Eddie.

I don't want to grind it out in the half court but at some point we will have to so it is good to have a master if that is the case.
wickerhd
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,340
And1: 139
Joined: Apr 23, 2001

 

Post#6 » by wickerhd » Tue Mar 4, 2008 4:39 pm

Playofs are always a halfcourt game, and Celtics have been playing it well. Sam will only help.
****dave
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

Re: Peter Vecsey at his "best" (Cassell related) 

Post#7 » by tombattor » Tue Mar 4, 2008 5:26 pm

Well, everyone knows Cassell can't play D to save his life. Not even when he was 28, so at 38, he's pretty much a chair out there. However, he can set up the offense and make open shots, so that's fine for a guy who's going to play 10 minutes a night.

Please don't expect some second coming of Isiah with this move. Cassell is way past his prime, which wasn't even that great to begin with.
P2
Banned User
Posts: 4,759
And1: 1
Joined: Dec 18, 2006
Location: Beantown

Re: Peter Vecsey at his "best" (Cassell related) 

Post#8 » by P2 » Tue Mar 4, 2008 5:33 pm

tombattor wrote:he can set up the offense and make open shots, so that's fine for a guy who's going to play 25 minutes a night.


Fixed.
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

 

Post#9 » by tombattor » Tue Mar 4, 2008 5:45 pm

P2, are you the president of Sam Cassell fan club? Or do you think he's 28? Which is it?

He was playing 25 minutes a game this year as a starter. No way he plays that off the bench. And he plays no D. So what makes you think he'll play that many minutes? You gotta stop living in the past when Cassell could do that on a championship calibur team.
User avatar
Taget
Analyst
Posts: 3,169
And1: 2,631
Joined: Apr 24, 2004
     

Re: Peter Vecsey at his "best" (Cassell related) 

Post#10 » by Taget » Tue Mar 4, 2008 5:57 pm

P2 wrote:and when did Rondo miss two straight jumpers the last time? Rondo hits the open ones, missed contested shots.


That last comment was directed at Doc rather than Rondo with the explicit message that Rondo is for real and it would be a mistake to reduce Rondo's minutes even if he has an off quarter.

And actually in the past Doc's rotations have been a concern with a tendency for him to do better when he has fewer options. Of course that was back when we were rebuilding and a larger more diverse rotation was necessary in terms of player development.

This year Doc has had tighter smaller rotations. Some of that might be having three stars who demand big minutes every night no matter what. But of course a lot of that is that we are actually playing to win it all and developmental minutes are no longer in any way shape or form a priority.

I take Vescey's skewering of Cassell to be Vescey praising Rondo and his role on the team. Just being Vescey he'd rather couch it in negative terms rather than positive ones.
[quote:545636310b="Darth Celtic"]man, these refs need to stop giving us the benefit of the doubt and start screwing us.[/quote]

Image
User avatar
cisco
Veteran
Posts: 2,738
And1: 48
Joined: Nov 14, 2005

Re: Peter Vecsey at his "best" (Cassell related) 

Post#11 » by cisco » Tue Mar 4, 2008 5:58 pm

tombattor wrote:Well, everyone knows Cassell can't play D to save his life. Not even when he was 28, so at 38, he's pretty much a chair out there. However, he can set up the offense and make open shots, so that's fine for a guy who's going to play 10 minutes a night.

Please don't expect some second coming of Isiah with this move. Cassell is way past his prime, which wasn't even that great to begin with.


Cassell is not past his prime. I guess you can say that age wise, but if he can still play at a high level (which he can and has THIS season), I don't see how that is past his prime.
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

Re: Peter Vecsey at his "best" (Cassell related) 

Post#12 » by tombattor » Tue Mar 4, 2008 6:10 pm

cisco wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Cassell is not past his prime. I guess you can say that age wise, but if he can still play at a high level (which he can and has THIS season), I don't see how that is past his prime.

Yes, he is past his prime. In his prime, he was averaging 18~19 points a game with 7+ assists. So you think he's still in his prime?

And this is a part you probably won't understand. DEFENSE. You know why Rondo plays a lot of minutes and is considered the PG of the future even though he can't shoot? A big part of it is his ability to play D, which also happens to be our team's forte.

At his age, Cassell's gotten so slow, he can't stay in front of any good PGs. In fact, he doesn't even try to play defense any more. What do you think having a PG who gets beat off the dribble consistently will do to your defense?

Like I said, Cassell is good for 10 minutes or so as a guy who makes good decisions, make some shots to keep defense honest, etc., especially towards the end of the game. But why do you guys keep thinking, he's someone that's going to carry us through the playoffs? I guess you can dream...
UGA Hayes
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,370
And1: 20,109
Joined: Jan 05, 2004
Location: real gm

 

Post#13 » by UGA Hayes » Tue Mar 4, 2008 6:15 pm

To be fair Vescey has said in the past that he is a huge fan of Rondo, so it isn't a huge surprise that he would write such. Of course he threw some BS into the column, but I think he voices the concern of some people, not to mention Tommy. We all know Rondo at this point is goning to make multiple mistakes in a row. The question is do you take Rondo out of the game when that happens. I don't know the answer.
User avatar
Matt34520
Junior
Posts: 392
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 28, 2007

 

Post#14 » by Matt34520 » Tue Mar 4, 2008 6:18 pm

tombattor wrote:P2, are you the president of Sam Cassell fan club? Or do you think he's 28? Which is it?

He was playing 25 minutes a game this year as a starter. No way he plays that off the bench. And he plays no D. So what makes you think he'll play that many minutes? You gotta stop living in the past when Cassell could do that on a championship calibur team.



Why is there a negative spin on everything? All we've heard all year was we needed veteran PG, now we got one...the best one available. Why are people still being negative? Its no matter what the Celtics do is gets spun by the media or the fans as a bad thing. If we go left, we should have went right....if we run we should have walked...just can't win. Getting Sam Cassell is not a bad thing, we didn't give up anything for him. We added to quality veteran players to are roster for the playoffs. If we didn't bring either in, I'm sure people would be complaining about that. By the way Sam Cassell has been a great player in the past, one year he dropped 19 a game with 9 assists.
Ray still got game.
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

 

Post#15 » by tombattor » Tue Mar 4, 2008 6:52 pm

Matt34520 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Why is there a negative spin on everything? All we've heard all year was we needed veteran PG, now we got one...the best one available. Why are people still being negative? Its no matter what the Celtics do is gets spun by the media or the fans as a bad thing. If we go left, we should have went right....if we run we should have walked...just can't win. Getting Sam Cassell is not a bad thing, we didn't give up anything for him. We added to quality veteran players to are roster for the playoffs. If we didn't bring either in, I'm sure people would be complaining about that. By the way Sam Cassell has been a great player in the past, one year he dropped 19 a game with 9 assists.

There is no negative spin. It's just being realistic. What makes you think Sam Cassell will some how become this great PG for us and carry us to a championship, when he hasn't been one in some time?

You know what role he's coming here to play, right? It's not to make our Big 3 a Big 4. He's coming here to play backup to Rondo and play backup minutes.

And Cassell was not a great player. He was a good player and had some good seasons, but was he ever one of the top-tier players in the league? No. So what makes him a great player? Are you confusing "great" with "good"?
humblebum
Banned User
Posts: 11,727
And1: 1,755
Joined: Jan 20, 2005

 

Post#16 » by humblebum » Tue Mar 4, 2008 6:57 pm

I think the biggest concern regarding the acquisition of Cassell is Doc's handling of Rondo from here on out. It's important that, to a certain extent, Doc sticks with what has brought the team success... and that's playing Rondo the majority of the minutes at PG. It also has to be a case where Rondo does have SOME leeway to make mistakes... this is important for Rondo's development as well as team success, because Rondo is a BIG part of what makes this team effective.

Overall though Cassell should help to stablize the Celtics offense in general. Cassell is also going to be nearly impossible to defend when playing alongside our three stars. Offensively the Celtics just improved by quite a bit, which is actually, IMO, the weaker aspect of the current team. Cassell can be used in such a way, due to our roster flexibility in the backcourt, to minimize his weaknesses on the defensive end. In other words, if Cassell is getting torched in a matchup the Celtics can simply stick with Rondo, or House, or even Tony Allen.
User avatar
Celts17Pride
RealGM
Posts: 68,302
And1: 69,910
Joined: Nov 27, 2005

 

Post#17 » by Celts17Pride » Tue Mar 4, 2008 7:13 pm

I for one love the Sam Cassell move but let's not fool ourselves this isn't a slamdunk. It has the potential to be a slamdunk but that's up to Sam Cassell.

Right now Sam is saying all the right things but you have to see if he puts them to action. If Sam plays when he is called on and then becomes a good teammate on the sidelines then it will work. I believe he will but the jury is still out on this move. Again it's up to Sam.
User avatar
Matt34520
Junior
Posts: 392
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 28, 2007

 

Post#18 » by Matt34520 » Tue Mar 4, 2008 8:14 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


There is no negative spin. It's just being realistic. What makes you think Sam Cassell will some how become this great PG for us and carry us to a championship, when he hasn't been one in some time?

You know what role he's coming here to play, right? It's not to make our Big 3 a Big 4. He's coming here to play backup to Rondo and play backup minutes.

And Cassell was not a great player. He was a good player and had some good seasons, but was he ever one of the top-tier players in the league? No. So what makes him a great player? Are you confusing "great" with "good"?


I NEVER SAID HE WAS COMING HERE AS A STARTER. But I think he can be a great back up point guard. How about very good, can we agree on that? He did make the all NBA team before and was an all star. He also contributed to two championships for the Rockets. On top of that he said solid seasons of nearly 20 a game and almost 10 assists a game. Plus I think something has to be said for his longevity. Cassell is still a good player now, hes still one of the smartest in the league.
Ray still got game.
User avatar
Matt34520
Junior
Posts: 392
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 28, 2007

 

Post#19 » by Matt34520 » Tue Mar 4, 2008 8:22 pm

Who said that this was some blockbuster move? I never did. All it is suppose to be was getting a quality veteran back up PG to help Rondo out. And we got one!!!!!!!! Sam Cassell is a quality veteran back up PG. So whats the problem? Just be happy we beefed up are roster. All I've heard from the media/fans is we need Cassell!! We need another big man!!! Well got both, were some lucky fans.

Cassell isn't an all time great player, but hes a very good player who does good things out there. If you notice alot of people around the league/writers seem to like Sam Cassell. Mike Goreman said hes one of the five players he'd pay to see. Cassell is a respected player in the NBA and theres a reason for that.
Ray still got game.
hiphop1
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,086
And1: 32
Joined: Aug 08, 2005
Location: hudson nh

 

Post#20 » by hiphop1 » Tue Mar 4, 2008 8:33 pm

When did Cassell even play in PHX?
Free your mind and your a** will follow

Return to Boston Celtics