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Pierce MVP

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Pierce MVP 

Post#1 » by b3n » Wed Mar 5, 2008 3:02 pm

Stumbled upon this link this morning...http://www.nba.com/features/player_rankings.html ...what do you think about Pierce being put above KG for MVP?

That is a tough call, I am pretty much split down the middle on who should be MVP. I mean P is very underappreciated and he has contributed (aside from the occasional off night) consistantly on all parts of the floor all season. There is always going to be the case about the defensive presence of Kevin Garnett out weighing any aspect of the celtics game this season, but I guess I'm not entirely convinced that Paul Pierce doesn't deserve to be mentioned on the same level as KG as an MVP candidate. I mean picture this team w/o Paul Pierce...:cry:
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Re: Pierce MVP 

Post#2 » by CelticsWhat! » Wed Mar 5, 2008 3:11 pm

b3n wrote:Stumbled upon this link this morning...http://www.nba.com/features/player_rankings.html ...what do you think about Pierce being put above KG for MVP?

That is a tough call, I am pretty much split down the middle on who should be MVP. I mean P is very underappreciated and he has contributed (aside from the occasional off night) consistantly on all parts of the floor all season. There is always going to be the case about the defensive presence of Kevin Garnett out weighing any aspect of the celtics game this season, but I guess I'm not entirely convinced that Paul Pierce doesn't deserve to be mentioned on the same level as KG as an MVP candidate. I mean picture this team w/o Paul Pierce...:cry:


I think, in the end, they'll take votes away from each other and Kobe or LeBron will get the MVP. That's fine by me, as long as Pierce or KG is hoisting up the NBA Finals MVP trophy. 8)
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Post#3 » by sam_I_am » Wed Mar 5, 2008 3:26 pm

If Pierce misses 9 games and the team goes 7-2 including wins over Dallas and San Antonio.... then I would say that Garnett is best player on team. But I have noticed that when we lose it is usually because Pierce has a bad game. Despite the hype, Pierce is still the best player on this team and that is why his teams have had more success than the Garnett T-Wolves did.

That being said, Garnett is still more valuable simply because there are about 15 guys in NBA who can do what Pierce does to some degree and only 3 who can do what Garnett does.
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Post#4 » by Relative Autonomy » Wed Mar 5, 2008 4:20 pm

sam_I_am wrote:If Pierce misses 9 games and the team goes 7-2 including wins over Dallas and San Antonio.... then I would say that Garnett is best player on team. But I have noticed that when we lose it is usually because Pierce has a bad game. Despite the hype, Pierce is still the best player on this team and that is why his teams have had more success than the Garnett T-Wolves did.

That being said, Garnett is still more valuable simply because there are about 15 guys in NBA who can do what Pierce does to some degree and only 3 who can do what Garnett does.


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Post#5 » by Dogen » Wed Mar 5, 2008 5:03 pm

Relative Autonomy wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



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Ditto. Spot on.
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Post#6 » by sully00 » Wed Mar 5, 2008 9:02 pm

I have nothing to say besides well you are all correct, hopefully Dr. Smith gets in and out of here before this things goes south, and I was reading some around the NBA thing on Yahoo did you know that Paul Pierce has scored the 4th most points this decade. Not entirely sure if he meant the last 7 years or last 10 but only Kobe, AI, and Dirk have put it the basket more than the captain.

I think that clearly Pierce is the MVP of this team. Not to dimish Garnett and what he does in anyway, he may well be the heart and soul leader and all of that and he made us good again. But Pierce has been the difference between good and great.
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Post#7 » by darrendaye » Wed Mar 5, 2008 9:26 pm

Paul is the most important scorer on the team. He and Tony Allen are the two players on the team that drive assertively to the basket and seek to draw contact. Over the entire season, however, KG's defense, ball movement, rebounding, scoring, and sustained energy make him, IMO, the team MVP.
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Post#8 » by SonicYouth34 » Wed Mar 5, 2008 9:37 pm

I think Truth deserves it more, he's been the leader on the best team on the league. That is what the MVP is, and if Kobe gets it just because of a strong second half I'm gonna be pissed
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Post#9 » by tombattor » Wed Mar 5, 2008 9:44 pm

darrendaye wrote:Paul is the most important scorer on the team. He and Tony Allen are the two players on the team that drive assertively to the basket and seek to draw contact. Over the entire season, however, KG's defense, ball movement, rebounding, scoring, and sustained energy make him, IMO, the team MVP.

Yup. I agree with this. As good as PP's been, it's KG's intensity and D that's made us the team we are. With that said, I think the award should go to either KG or Lebron.
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Post#10 » by Celtics_85 » Wed Mar 5, 2008 10:38 pm

Garnett is the leader of this team, and Pierce is the the MVP of this team. KG wouldn't care about MVP if he can get a Championship. Pierce deserves the MVP if he can lead this team to a championship. He has played pretty good defense this year and seems to take a team's top scoerer on defense. Pierce finally deserves his do in this league as one of the top players.
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Post#11 » by campybatman » Wed Mar 5, 2008 10:39 pm

Unfortunately, the media and national fans tend to look more at the number of points a player scores and so think of James or Bryant for MVP. I feel like the team's place in the standing all season should affect your opinion too.

I don't think that Paul's averages outside of points are eye catching enough to say he has a legitimate chance to win MVP this season. If Garnett weren't on Boston and Boston has this league leading record lead by only he [Pierce] and Ray Allen. Then I believe Pierce's name would be brought up more in this year's regular season MVP conversation. I ask myself: Does Paul deserve it as much at least as Dirk Nowitzki who had a solid season while leading Dallas to the best regular season record (67-15) in 2006-2007?


3/5/08

2007-2008

Paul Pierce

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/paul_pier ... stats.html


2006-2007

Dirk Nowitzki

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dirk_nowi ... stats.html


It would be a great achievement if Pierce were to somehow win the MVP this season with winning the NBA championship title in the same season a bigger accomplishment. However, I feel that it's unlikely to happen and believe Paul would be more excited if he were to let's say finish as the MVP of the NBA finals and his team won the series and the championship. But, I just don't feel that in the minds of enough people who matter see Paul Pierce as an elite player among other elite players. I disagree. Some feel he's a selfish player or one who doesn't play defense or doesn't make his teammates better or can be a leader on a team. There are arguments that could suggest these are true (likely examples drawn from previous seasons) and ones (this season definitely) I'm sure to say otherwise. Still, I see Pierce as an important player in this league and one who's certainly among the best of the top half of All-Star players in the entire NBA. But, Paul's focus has got to be on the bigger prize looking beyond winning the regular season MVP. Ditto for Garnett. He knows too well that winning the trophy proves nothing and doesn't automatically grant you anything in the playoffs. Where did winning the award get Dirk? An early team exit from the playoffs and a summer long of criticism.
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Post#12 » by campybatman » Wed Mar 5, 2008 11:05 pm

Oh, another point I'll like to say. People are apt to say that a MVP candidate is oftentimes the best player on the team. Or you expect your team's best player to have an MVP-like season every season if he can. For Boston, the consensus is Garnett is the best player on the Celtics so the feeling might be nationally that how could Pierce be having a better season than Garnett. It's possible... But, having a roster that features three All-Star players can affect all three's statistics. Then it shouldn't be a surprise that Pierce is having a better year while Garnett is thought to be having the bigger impact. They're both having an impact on wins with Ray Allen.

My guess are the front runners are James and Bryant. I would guess the choice will end up being James but it could be Bryant instead. For one thing, the addition of Gasol legitimizes the choice of Bryant. No longer can one imply that Bryant is on a bad team. Bryant's numbers are good, he's on a good team and Gasol helps to make the Lakers a serious team to consider to go deep into this season's playoffs. On the other hand, both James and Bryant were believed to be deserving of the award last season and neither won. So, the winner of the MVP is anyone's guess.

If the MVP tends to be an All-Star player having an outstanding season on a team with the league's best or second or third best record. Then I suspect the winner could be from Boston or Detroit. However, both of those teams you could see as an unit where the team is the MVP as oppose to picking one player among them. Though I would say Paul, Kevin and maybe Ray are better individually than Billups or whoever Detroit fans would say make up their big three. From this, it can be Pierce and Garnett versus Billups for votes.
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Post#13 » by s1ickd » Wed Mar 5, 2008 11:14 pm

Over the course of a single game, or even a week, Pierce is more valuable than KG.

Over the course of a season or several seasons, KG's impact is much much larger. The mentality and piece of mind he brings by manning the post so intensely and intelligently is matched only by Shaq in his prime and Tim Duncan (amongst current players).

That being said, neither should get MVP because the celtics are a playoff team if they didnt have one of the two.

The Cavs are not a payoff team without Lebron. NOT EVEN CLOSE. They would arguably be the worst team in the league without Lebron. The Lakers wouldn't make the playoffs without Kobe, but then gain, the west has like 6 legit cotenders. You could argue that Odom and Gasol could make the playoffs in the East.

conclusion: Lebron deserves MVP.
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Post#14 » by Mahoney_jr » Wed Mar 5, 2008 11:19 pm

Regular Season MVP? Meeeeeeh. Who needs that?

Pierce has a legitimate shot at the MVP of the finals! That's more important :)
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Post#15 » by Jammer » Wed Mar 5, 2008 11:52 pm

Something about Paul Pierce that surprised me is his NET PER.

Garnett led the league 4 straight years, and is second this year (he may have just slipped to third).

But, Paul Pierce is 10th. Friggin 10th.

No one other than Celtic fans realize how hard he works on both ends. He not only goes out and gets 6 rebounds, 4.8 assists and 20+ points; but Pierce also plays D.

To put that in perspective, Ray Allen, the next best NET PER on the Celtics, is 40th.

So, the Celtics have the 2nd, 10th and 40th best players in the league based on NET PER.

I still think that the team's 3 point shooting, and how Tony Allen plays, will in the end have a lot to do with how far this team can go in the post season.
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Post#16 » by tlee324 » Thu Mar 6, 2008 12:35 am

I think Ray Allen's presence on the floor is overlooked in the matter of how the team performed when KG was out; Rondo's as well, and to a degree, Powe and Glen Davis. When KG went down, Pierce was the same Pierce he's been all season so far. He's the man on offense, he's playing that Jim O'Brien defense he used to play, and did I mention he's the man already? :) Many of the Pierce fans KNEW he'd be able to play great on a team that actually had other great players and good role players... we were just waiting patiently for this to happen...

If Pierce is the MVP though, I feel it should be looked at how he's performed all season, not just how the team won when KG was out, because it was far more than just PP behind that stretch, IMO. Rondo stepped up big time, as did Powe and Baby, IMO. Ray has been consistent all year, period. What that record proved, IMO, was that this team is deeper than just the big three. It proved that basketball is a team game and KG alone isn't the reason this team can be considered one of the best in the league. I think Pierce's season overall has earned himself some MVP talk, not just that stretch. Perhaps that stretch could definitely be used as some evidence, but I as a fan of his, I like to think it has been a total accumulation of what he's done over the season...

Team success is what will get him MVP honors if he's to win it. He is playing the same way he's always played, IMO. It's more noticeable now because he's on a much better team overall than he's ever been on, and perhaps will ever be on.

MVP is more than just who's the best player, IMO. If we assessed who's better in every area of the game between Garnett and Pierce (rebounding, defense, scoring, etc.) then most of us I feel would end up putting Garnett on top. However, the game is more than that, especially when you're talking MVP.

Personally, I think all 3 of the all-stars can make a rock solid case for MVP of this team.
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Post#17 » by sully00 » Thu Mar 6, 2008 3:58 am

I think tonight puts that Garnett guys value in perspective but it also doesn't change my mind much. Again we are good because of KG in that sense he is the most valuable because we the Wizards without him maybe not even that good.

Garnett is exactly what I expected him to be, and while Pierce has always been great it is like he shed his flaws like a snake skin and turned into, well the player both Danny and Doc probably dreamed he could become. He has elevated his game, I think the best comparison of what I am talking about is Duncan vs Manu. Duncan is still as good as he has even been but the MVP for that team has been Manu he has taken his game to another level.

Hubie Brown moment over.
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Post#18 » by darrendaye » Thu Mar 6, 2008 4:09 am

I'm raining on the parade a bit, and I don't mean this to disparage Pierce, but what has he really taken to another level? Defense? Absolutely, from my observance. Perhaps that's enough to proclaim this a breakthrough season. But, is there any other aspect of his game that you can build this case that he's taken a big leap this season over previous campaigns? I mean, the 04/05 season was very good for Paul as well. In fact, he rebounded at a higher rate, got to the free throw line at a higher rate, and the rest of his statistical performance was in line with what he's producing this season.
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Post#19 » by sully00 » Thu Mar 6, 2008 5:16 am

darrendaye

It isn't just stats, it is his decision making, which has been made better by passing to people like Ray and KG. He is making more FT's especially in the fourth quarter. It is the production in the cotext of a dominant team.

But it's Kobe's trophy and who cares as long as that is the only one he gets.

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