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Congrats Doc, and it only took you a #1 seed 7 games to beat the worst playoff team ever! Congrats!

I'm assuming you meant round not year in the title first off and second, get over it, move on, we're playing the cavs now, the hawks are at home wacking off.

The only playoff team he's had that should have made it past the first round and didn't was the division winning Celts of a few years back. The rest of the teams were crap and were lucky to be in the playoffs.

The lack of Grant Hill effected Doc's playoff failures greatly in Orlando. Coaching matters, and he definitely could have done better there, but you need talent too, and losing Grant Hill for all that time having him taking up that capspace was huge too.

He should have beat the Pistons in 2002 when his team was up 3-1 -- but that Rick Carlisle made one of those pesky... what do you call them? Oh yeah, "adjustments" and took Tayshaun Prince off the bench and put him on Tracy McGrady.

Now if Doc had 4 more games to play at that point I'm confident he would have found an answer, but alas, he had only 3 and lost the series.

Well he beat McGrady to it at least. I dont think anyone thought that would happen after TMac went to Houston.

spf211 wrote:He should have beat the Pistons in 2002 when his team was up 3-1 -- but that Rick Carlisle made one of those pesky... what do you call them? Oh yeah, "adjustments" and took Tayshaun Prince off the bench and put him on Tracy McGrady.

Now if Doc had 4 more games to play at that point I'm confident he would have found an answer, but alas, he had only 3 and lost the series.

You can say they should have won, but I'll also say they shouldn't have ever been up 3-1. The Pistons were the one seed and the Magic were the eight.

spf211 wrote:He should have beat the Pistons in 2002 when his team was up 3-1 -- but that Rick Carlisle made one of those pesky... what do you call them? Oh yeah, "adjustments" and took Tayshaun Prince off the bench and put him on Tracy McGrady.

Now if Doc had 4 more games to play at that point I'm confident he would have found an answer, but alas, he had only 3 and lost the series.

that's funny you hold that up as bad coaching by Doc. the magic were the #8 seed, and by all accounts lucky to be there, and the pistons the #1 seed. it would have been a bigger upset than GS-DAL. how about the fact that it took golden boy coach Rick Carlisle 4 games to figure that out? can you imagine if Doc did took that long to make an adjustment, all the hate he would get? The fact is Tmac was all Doc had that year, when he got shut down there wasn't much else Doc could do.

as for the Indy series, I have a hard time blaming Doc for an absolutely putrid game 7 effort by our guys. That was worse than the Hawks' efforts yesterday, because we were at home and should have been up for it. Doc was partly to blame too but the players have to actually step up. if you can't get up for a game 7 on your own home floor, you shouldn't be in the NBA.

I feel you're OVER defending Doc, Particle...

.... he takes NO blame for losing 3-1?

None?

nah, i'm just pointing out the double standard. as in it's all about how doc lost a 3-1 lead, not how carlisle took a #1 seed team to a 3-1 deficit. just pointing out the other side.

i've never thought doc was a great in-game coach, but i do like his overall style and ability to make between-game adjustments. in this respect he's a bit like francona, who gets a pretty decent amount of flak around boston too. and that's after he's won 2 titles lol.

ParticleMan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




that's funny you hold that up as bad coaching by Doc. the magic were the #8 seed, and by all accounts lucky to be there, and the pistons the #1 seed. it would have been a bigger upset than GS-DAL. how about the fact that it took golden boy coach Rick Carlisle 4 games to figure that out? can you imagine if Doc did took that long to make an adjustment, all the hate he would get? The fact is Tmac was all Doc had that year, when he got shut down there wasn't much else Doc could do.

Dude, don't let logic get in the way of a good Doc-bashing!

Just kidding. And you're right; posters on this board hold Doc Rivers to a much higher standard than they do Rick Carlisle. For a supposed coaching genius, Carlisle's team has been upset in the playoffs by lower seeds not once, not twice, but three times, and two of those times were in convincing fashion (his #1 Pistons swept by the #2 Nets in 2003, his #2 Pistons beaten 4-1 by O'Brien's Celtics in 2002, his #1 Pacers beaten 4-2 by the Pistons in 2004). Where was Carlisle with his vintage ... what are those pesky things called again ... oh yeah, adjustments during any of those series?

And I love how spf can use the fact that Carlisle came back from down 1-3 to "guide" his #2 seed Pistons to a win against Rivers' #7 seed Magic to show that Carlisle is a vastly superior coach to Rivers, when in effect he is really pointing out that Rivers was outcoaching Carlisle through the first four games of the season. How else do you explain the #2 seed being down 1-3 to the #7 seed in the first place (and yes, I am partly joking with this last sentence, but only partly)?

BadMuthaCeltic wrote:I feel you're OVER defending Doc, Particle...

.... he takes NO blame for losing 3-1?

None?

Forget blame, he should get credit for winning three games against the number one seeded Pistons with that putrid Magic team.

I lived in Florida at the time, and you couldn't get away from the excitement going on there when the Magic were up 3-1, for sure. I used to listen to "The Animal" on the sports radio station and it was the ONLY time they'd talk basketball on there, since the Buccaneers were the end-all/be-all of the Tampa area.

But Doc Rivers was a demi-god at that time, winning coach of the year just a couple of years earlier, and scratching out wins with what many felt was inferior talent.

When he lost that series, it all went downhill after that, and people were just counting the days... that horrendous start they had the next season was all they needed.

But it wasn't all on him. As I said earlier, he'd definitely have had better playoff success had a healthy Grant/McGrady combination been on the floor.

ParticleMan wrote:nah, i'm just pointing out the double standard. as in it's all about how doc lost a 3-1 lead, not how carlisle took a #1 seed team to a 3-1 deficit. just pointing out the other side.

i've never thought doc was a great in-game coach, but i do like his overall style and ability to make between-game adjustments. in this respect he's a bit like francona, who gets a pretty decent amount of flak around boston too. and that's after he's won 2 titles lol.

Exactly. Everyone on here was riding Carlisle's sack, wishing he was coach. He did the exact same thing Doc did just this week, but HUGE double standard.

I like Doc, warts and all, as the coach of this team!

I'm not sure that Doc and Carlisle did the same exact thing. The teams Carlisle lost playoff series to were better than ATL, and even the Orlando team that Doc coached was better than ATL, and Boston is better than any team Carlisle had from a talent standpoint as well.

MyInsatiableOne wrote:I like Doc, warts and all, as the coach of this team!

Here here! And the players like him, which means that they're going to play hard for him every night, which is something some great "Xs and Os" guys, like George Karl and Larry Brown, have trouble with sometimes.

Athanacropolis wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Here here! And the players like him, which means that they're going to play hard for him every night, which is something some great "Xs and Os" guys, like George Karl and Larry Brown, have trouble with sometimes.

It was pretty obvious Karl's players didn't listen to him one bit. Too bad that unlike the real world, where the stupid knucklehead employees would be fired by the boss, the "boss"/coach is the one who will probably get canned...

Wow -- I guess I have to defend my "selective memory" here because, unlike most people accusing me of applying a "double standard" -- I was actually posting here during the Pistons/Magic series that Doc Rivers should have won so let's get some perspective.

1) Rick Carlisle did the same thing Doc Rivers almost did this year with the Celtics - Wrong. Well, you're right if you want to use some inane 1-8 match-up logic -- but actually review the teams that had that match-up in 2003.

The Pistons won 50 games that year. The Magic won 42.
The difference between the 1 seed and the 8 seed? 8 games.
The difference between the 1 seed and the 8 seed in 2008? 29 games.

That's a pretty big spread difference. If you look at the spread, the 1-8 match-up in 2003 is nearly comprable to this year's Celtics/Pistons -- and not remotely close to Celtics/Hawks.

McGrady also missed 8 games that year which could have netted the Magic a few more wins which would also bode a higher seed for them.

All in all, the conference was a spread of 8 games that year -- as competitive as the spread in the Western Conference this year. So, no, I wouldn't say the Magic were "lucky to be in the playoffs," they were a plus .500 team in a conference decided by 8 games from top to bottom.

Hard to believe now when we'd see 30-win teams like the Celtics and Hawks make the playoffs in subsequent years.

2) The Pistons weren't that impressive.

Yes, they made the Eastern Conference Finals that year. Where they got swept by the Nets. In the second round they won, in 6 games, against the 76ers -- with Keith Van Horn as the second option to Allen Iverson.

There was parity in the Eastern conference in 2003. Everyone was onboard with the Magic defeating the Pistons after they went up 3-1. It was at this time that McGrady made his infamous comments about how great it was to finally be in the second round. It was the year that the NBA went from a 5-game first round to a 7-game first round series -- the Magic would have been in the second round were it not for the rule change.

Orlando was dominating and it was inconcievable they lose the series after Game 4.

Rick Carlisle made an adjustment.

Then Doc shocked the world.

Rick Carlisle made an adjustment.

Then Doc shocked the world.

If the great adjustment that Carlisle made was putting Prince on McGrady, what is the counter move Doc is supposed to make? Take McGrady out?

In that situation, its on the player to make the adjustment not the coach. The coach can't just tell you some secret moves that will help you beat a defender.

Why doesn't anyone ever mention that Grant Hill has never made it out of the first round? He was on some good teams in Detroit, Orlando and now in PHO....

He's like the anti-Robert Horry....