Who scares you more??

greenbeans · Post #1 » by **greenbeans** » Tue May 6, 2008 12:09 am

Pre-trade Cavs or post-trade Cavs???

pretty simple, have at it!!

kmgarnett21 · Post #2 » by **kmgarnett21** » Tue May 6, 2008 12:59 am

thats a hard one...assuming you mean which team scares me most against us, its pre-trade cavs.

hughes was a great outside defender, better than wally, & he's equal to wally in offensive production even tho wally is a better shooter.

gooden is better than ben wallace. gooden always killed the C's lately & he matches up better against KG AND he's a much better offensive player.

but i will go with post trade cavs b/c thats who we have to play NOW. & i think the players cleveland has now fit better with bron than gooden & hughes do. wally & west are players who can feed off lebron. hughes was a terrible fit beside lbj, but wally & west are better fit for lebrons game.

s1ickd · Post #3 » by **s1ickd** » Tue May 6, 2008 4:05 am

they're both about equal, i think. this team has more talent, but the previous one had more cohesion.

wally is going to be in foul trouble because he needs to defend either allen or pierce.

Dwest is going to see some full court press from rondo... and won't get open 3's either. Ilgauskas usually has good games against Perk.

I think Pierce and Posey are the perfect type of player to throw at Lebron, though he's going to play well anyways.

GuyClinch · Post #4 » by **GuyClinch** » Tue May 6, 2008 4:13 am

Pre..

Gooden and Hughes are far more talented then D. West and Joe Smith.. Wallace has slipped into being a net negative.. The old Cavs had some untapped talent but the new Cavs have hustle guys who give it their all.

Pete

Ed Pinkney · Post #5 » by **Ed Pinkney** » Tue May 6, 2008 4:18 am

I think post. Hughes was stinking it up all year and his comments about not caring about winning doesn't really make him someone to worry about come playoffs. Gooden was nothing to really worry about.

Now they can play three very good outside shooters with James (Gibson, West, Wally) and Joe Smith is also a good spot up shooter. That makes doubling James much more dangerous.

MalReyn · Post #6 » by **MalReyn** » Tue May 6, 2008 4:23 am

No question in my mind post. After some early hiccups, they've played really well.

The key is they now have the shooters to surround Lebron, so it's far more dangerous double-teaming him.

They're not SIGNIFICANTLY better, but I do think they're noticably better.

SonicYouth34 · Post #7 » by **SonicYouth34** » Tue May 6, 2008 4:45 am

Pre-trade cavs, Ray is gonna rip the Cavs a new one in this series since he doesn't have to guard Joe Johnson

GuyClinch · Post #8 » by **GuyClinch** » Tue May 6, 2008 5:35 am

The key is they now have the shooters to surround Lebron, so it's far more dangerous double-teaming him.

Your not factoring in what they lost on the defensive end - in addition Wallace is a non-shooter so the rotations to cover your perimeter players have become easier not harder.

This question in my mind was already answered with the inferior record post trade.

Pete

Post #9 » by **Bleeding Green** » Tue May 6, 2008 6:19 am

Gooden and Wallace are pretty bad players, though Gooden has the ability to be pretty good. Hughes and Szczerbiak are both below-average players, but at least Szczerbiak can get hot and drop 25 like nothing. I'd say they're roughly equal in terms of actual talent, but I think the Celtics matchup a little better against the post-trade Cavs. Wallace is such an awful offensive player that it makes covering the good perimeter shooters (Gibson, Jones, Szczerbiak, West) that much easier. KG can really slack off of Wallace and go out to the three point line to defend a lot more than he'd usually be able to. And three of their best shooters are going to be defended by Rajon Rondo, so that's a big plus.

LeBron is going to go crazy and drop his typical 35/10/7, it'll just come down to defending the good perimeter shooters, I think.

Post #10 » by **tlee324** » Tue May 6, 2008 6:39 am

Prior to the trade, they had a 56% win percentage over 55 games, and then went on for the next 26 games at a 53% win percentage with less time to gel. Now they've appeared to hit their stride in the playoffs when the games matter a lot more... if you count the playoffs they are right at the same percentage record-wise as they were prior to the trade. I don't think the win percentages really tell the story here at all; it's more about how the team matches up with Boston, and how the Celtics handle the Lebron Factor.

Allanon · Post #11 » by **Allanon** » Tue May 6, 2008 7:01 am

Post Trade.

The got rid of their two soft players....Hughes and Gooden. Anytime you can get rid of those two forever injured players, you've stepped it up a notch. In addition, they are so streaky you can never rely on them. They're either really good or suck really bad.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #12 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Tue May 6, 2008 12:56 pm

GuyClinch wrote:Pre..

Gooden and Hughes are far more talented then D. West and Joe Smith.. Wallace has slipped into being a net negative.. The old Cavs had some untapped talent but the new Cavs have hustle guys who give it their all.

Pete

Again Pete, agree 100%.

This is a .500 (including playoffs) after the trade.

Post #13 » by **tlee324** » Tue May 6, 2008 1:11 pm

Actually, they were a .563 team before the trade and .563 after the trade, including the playoffs....

.... as I already stated....

MyInsatiableOne · Post #14 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Tue May 6, 2008 1:15 pm

BadMuthaCeltic wrote:Actually, they were a .563 team before the trade and .563 after the trade, including the playoffs....

.... as I already stated....

Whoa, so those 0.063 % points totally make them a MUCH BETTER team, huh? :roll:

Sorry for the sarcasm, BMC, but I'm not buying it!

Athanacropolis · Post #15 » by **Athanacropolis** » Tue May 6, 2008 1:17 pm

At first I thought this poll was about "pre-op" vs. "post-op," and I got kind of scared. Then I read the post.

Pre-trade Cavs. Not scared of Wally, West, or Wallace. Come to think of it, post-op works well when talking about this team, to.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #16 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Tue May 6, 2008 1:28 pm

I think we take this series in 6 games.

goddago · Post #17 » by **goddago** » Tue May 6, 2008 11:26 pm

Actually when you look at the trade from our side it was Hughes and Gooden for DWest, Wally, Joe Smith, and Big Ben. Except for Wally prior to game 6 the other 3 have brought fairly consistent play since the trade. Four rotation players is better than 2 when none of them are considered stars and allows Mike Brown to go 9 or 10 deep with his rotations. In a grind out series a deeper rotation is a plus. BTW good luck C Fans.

hiphop1 · Post #18 » by **hiphop1** » Tue May 6, 2008 11:30 pm

Post, alot better defensivly.

GuyClinch · Post #19 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed May 7, 2008 4:31 am

In addition, they are so streaky you can never rely on them. They're either really good or suck really bad.

Thats what makes them scary. I understand WHY Cleveland made the trade. Essentiallly they traded talent for professionalism. Talent is more scary then professionalism. Larry Hughes had talent. Drew Gooden has talent.

D. West, Wally and Wallace have great work ethics, they try hard and they are pros. But talent is alway scarier. Guys like Rasheed Wallace can decide to act like a pro at any time and that can take away championships. Just ask the Lakers.

Pete

Post #20 » by **tlee324** » Wed May 7, 2008 5:50 am

MyInsatiableOne wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Whoa, so those 0.063 % points totally make them a MUCH BETTER team, huh?

Sorry for the sarcasm, BMC, but I'm not buying it!

My point was that the win percentages don't really tell who's better, even though you were using them (a wrong figure at that) to say who was better.

See what I mean?