RealGM

Hello, I haven't been on this forum in a while, but with all the playoff excitement I have found my way back. I've been lurking for the past week and would just like to add my 2 cents, all in one post. I may bring a fresh perspective as I'm not a regular here. That said, I hope I don't offend anyone, but I do feel the need to speak (what I perceive) as the truth.

1. Some of you make irrational arguments/posts, based more on your love/hate of a player than on facts and reality.

Lets talk about the Rajon Rondo worship, the Eddie House love, and the Sam Cassell hatred. I won't go into any percentages - I will go purely by what I observe in the context of the playoff games.

Rajon Rondo - He has had stretches of great play, mixed in with stretches of invisibility and a clear lack of experience and sound judgment. Rondo does not move the ball around as much as some posters here would claim. He went at Josh Smith numerous times only to be blocked, every
time. His jumper has been invisible. He has held the ball and ended up with the last shot in numerous expiring shot-clock situations. Dont' get me wrong, Rondo has played really well. Just not as well as some of you would think. He definitely should be kept to 30-35 minutes, with Cassell playing the rest of the time and during critical situations.

Eddie House - Hasn't played much, and I'm not unhappy about it. Some of you think Eddie House is the second coming of Ray Allen. He really isn't that good and he's just as trigger happy as Sam, only without the veteran leadership and decision-making.

Sam Cassell - here is where it gets interesting. I don't get where all the Cassell hate comes from. Maybe its because Sam likes to run down the floor and chuck up jumpers after only a few seconds. Maybe its because Cassell is making only about half the shots that he should be making. Those are facts that I won't dispute. I will point out though that Sam brings leadership and veteran experience - the kind of intangible things that Garnett is so lauded for. He has been called a "player-coach" as he is practically a second coach when he is on the floor. Sam doesn't do anything that is outside his role. Doc wants him to shoot, to push the ball, to be aggressive. He also wants him at the end of the game to avoid Rondo making potentially game-ending mistakes. I trust Cassell at the end of the game more than I trust Rondo. That's not to say that Rondo won't have his time or get his chance. Rondo will get more time as the playoffs progress. Even Tony Parker was taken out of by Popovich in the last couple games of the NBA finals, because he simply wasn't ready or experienced enough. All in all, appreciate Cassell more because the Celtics are better with him.

What everyone needs to realize is that you can't measure what Sam does just by his FG%. And quit with this ubuntu-killing nonsense. I haven't seen much ubuntu on the offensive end in the playoffs from the Celtics at all. Its unfair to blame it on Sam.

Ray Allen - He's had a bad year and he's not the player he used to be.
Cmon, I don't know how any of you can really disagree with this. He looks slow and old out there. If his name wasn't Ray Allen and he was on another team, he might not even be starting. He can't defend anybody. He's too slow to drive, even on Wally Sczerbiak. His 3 point shot is inconsistent. Like another poster said, he's not worth much more than a healthy Wally right now.


edit:: forgot my man Paul Pierce
Paul Pierce: I remember the 2002 playoffs and how I felt Pierce could get hot and spring for 50 in any game. I haven't had that feeling once this entire playoffs. Pierce is older now, perhaps a bit slower, but also more mature as he understands that he doesn't have to score all the time in order for the Celtics to win. But, I'm worried that perhaps his offensive skills aren't as sharp now that he doesn't have to score all the time. In an interview with Pierce, Garnett, and Allen, when asked who should take the last-shot at the end of a game, Pierce answered "Ray Allen". Maybe he was just being modest. Or nice. Or trying to give his teammate some confidence. All noble things, but that answer still troubles me. What happened to the Pierce of old? The supremely confident player who wanted the ball in his hands in all game-ending situations? Who got upset once when O'Brien called a play for Antoine Walker at the end of the game instead of for Pierce? What happened to the Pierce who lived for those moments?

I wouldn't be as worried for the Celtics if it weren't for the fact that I don't believe the Celtics can win the championship without that Pierce. When we need points at the end of the game, Pierce is going to have to come through. Not Garnett. Not Ray Allen. When Kobe starts scoring indiscriminately in Game 7 of the Finals, we're going to need Paul Pierce's ego back, his pride which is at times both his greatest strength and his most embarassing weakness.


I do think the Celtics offense could be better. Maybe there should be plays run for Ray and for Pierce. However, these are supposed all-stars. It's not like Ray Allen is being double-teamed. I do worry about the later playoff games. I don't trust in Doc's ability to "adjust" the offense.


Finally, don't know if it happened on this board, but I was incensed when supposed Celtics fans started turning on the team and the players when the Celtics started losing to the Hawks. I think people don't realize that the Hawks peaked during the playoffs and would have gave any team fits. They definitely weren't as bad as their record showed.

That is all. Looking forward to the discussion and to the game tomorrow.
Go Celtics!

Is Rondo perfect? No, but he is a 2nd year player and could make the allstar team as soon as next season if he keeps this up. Ray isn't having a bad season really. He just has a more limited role than he usually has had. I dont see anyone talking about House like you said, but regardless he is a useful roleplayer. I really dont see people praising him much beyond that.

I'm not sure if Rondo can be an all-star next season, just because of all the talent that is in the NBA now and how hard it is to make the all-star team.

He is definitely a young talent who will only get better with time. Like I said, he still has weaknesses due to his inexperience. Playing Sam Cassell (even in the 4th quarter) is crucial to the Celtics' success. I do wish Rondo would take (and make) that mid-range jumper more. Maybe he should take some of Sam's over-confidence for himself.

There is no way around the fact that on numerous occasions since his signing, the first unit has built a double digit lead in the first only to have cassell come in and drive the offense to a screeching halt. His ball pounding and bad shot selection have let the opposing team back in the game with him on the court in the second quarter. For whatever the reason it may be, doesn't know the plays, not familiar with his teamates, not in rhythm coming off an injury to a new team, be it as it may, it is frustrating

that is the main gripe about him on the board, everyone knows he brings leadership championship, experience and the ability to hit big shots like only a few players in the league, there is no way around that either

but without cassell driving the offense in the ground last night, we shouldnt have been in trailing with 1:30 left when the other team is shooting 30 percent

I agree and have made the point too that Rondo needs to take shots and not pass them up as much as he does. One of the reasons I think Rondo has a shot at making the allstar team next year is simply that I dont think there are a ton of great PG's in the east unless things change. Maybe I'm forgetting some, but I can't even think of any that would make it ahead of him besides Billups. That is assuming he continues on this pace and possibly gets even better. I'd be curious to hear what others think of that.

CelticGamecock wrote:I agree and have made the point too that Rondo needs to take shots and not pass them up as much as he does. One of the reasons I think Rondo has a shot at making the allstar team next year is simply that I dont think there are a ton of great PG's in the east unless things change. Maybe I'm forgetting some, but I can't even think of any that would make it ahead of him besides Billups. That is assuming he continues on this pace and possibly gets even better. I'd be curious to hear what others think of that.

Duck! Here come the Raptors homers !!!

As an overall player, his only competition in the East is Billups. Calderon has the gaudy offensive stats, but he's abysmal on D and not even a starter. Andre Miller isn't nearly the defender Rondo is. Arenas is a SG not a PG. Derrick Rose if drafted by the East won't be on Rondo's level right away as a PG. Rondo just simply > Hinrich, Harris, Felton, Delonte, Ford, Nelson, MoWill, Tinsley, Marbury , Bibby...that it? Pretty sure that's it for the East. IMO Rondo is already the 2nd best overall PG in the East.

Homerism FTW!!!^

Datruth345 wrote:There is no way around the fact that on numerous occasions since his signing, the first unit has built a double digit lead in the first only to have cassell come in and drive the offense to a screeching halt. His ball pounding and bad shot selection have let the opposing team back in the game with him on the court in the second quarter. For whatever the reason it may be, doesn't know the plays, not familiar with his teamates, not in rhythm coming off an injury to a new team, be it as it may, it is frustrating

that is the main gripe about him on the board, everyone knows he brings leadership championship, experience and the ability to hit big shots like only a few players in the league, there is no way around that either

but without cassell driving the offense in the ground last night, we shouldnt have been in trailing with 1:30 left when the other team is shooting 30 percent

Amen, brother, amen.

The problem with Cassell is that not only is he bad while he's in, but when he comes back out, all sense of ball movement is STILL gone. Rondo can't get back into a rhythm, and the entire team wants to play 1 on 1 again.

Eddie House might like to shoot as much as Cassell, but he facilitated ball movement. Sam I am does not.

To give Sam credit, though, in the 4th quarter last night Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were practically afraid of the ball. They needed someone in there who would be able to get a shot off...and Sam was a good option for that.

The Sam hate does seem to be a little ridiculous, but...

I think two more important differences between Sam and Rondo is that Sam does absolutely nothing on the glass and on the defensive end. It seems like Sam's man consistently gets offensive boards and burns him on defense. Also the team never even attempts to run when Sam is in the game.

I agree ... the people that have this hatred for sam are way off!! Ubuntu killer sam cassell .. What a joke.. So glad hes here.. Thank god!

Ray Allen - He's had a bad year and he's not the player he used to be.
Cmon, I don't know how any of you can really disagree with this. He looks slow and old out there. If his name wasn't Ray Allen and he was on another team, he might not even be starting. He can't defend anybody. He's too slow to drive, even on Wally Sczerbiak. His 3 point shot is inconsistent. Like another poster said, he's not worth much more than a healthy Wally right now.

Facts be damned, right?

To quote my post in the other thread:

RoyHobbs wrote:Ray had a great shooting year.

TS%: 58.4% (fourth best in his 12 year career, 1.3 better than career average)
eFG%: 53.7% (fourth best in his career, 1.8 better than career average)
3PT%: 39.8% (fifth best in his career, 0.1 better than career average)
FT%. 90.7% (second best in his career, 1.8 better than career average)

I'm not sure what the problem is. His points are down, because he takes fewer shot attempts. His overall field goal percentage was very slightly down (although it was his second best in the last six seasons, and within 0.1 of his career average) because he took a higher percentage of three-pointers this year.

After the all-star break, he shot a phenomenal 48.7% overall, and 44.4% from three. For a shooting guard who concentrates on outside shots, those numbers are absolutely tremendous.

In terms of creating his own shot / going to the hoop, that hasn't been Ray's role this year, but it's definitely something he can do. 21% of Ray's shots have been from inside this year, and 36% of his shots overall have been unassisted.

On defense, Ray held opposing shooting guards to an Opponent's PER of 12.4, which is an absolutely phenomenal number, and I believe the best Opponent's PER of any starting shooting guard in the NBA. He's not a great individual defender, but in terms of results, he's been as good as anybody.

I'm not sure why people have the perception that Ray had an off year, but they couldn't be further from the truth.

you're right about everything except Paul and Ray.

yes, he doesn't dunk on people anymore, or cross them up. however, if he played for a .500 team, he'd still be a 20+ppg scorer. the fact is, he looks lost out there. he's way overqualified for his job, which is floating around the arc and waiting till someone is double teamed. his confidence is totaly shot. there are spurts where his confidence comes back, and its visible. for the most part, i dont see as much of a killer instinct.

If you ask Pierce to go 65% on defense, and focus on scoring 25-30 a game, he'll do it. trust me. Paul Pierce has no problem going into iso situations foul line extended. We seem to forget how effective he was when Garnett was injured. He's not at the top of the key crossing people up for 3's aymore because it's totaly unnecessary.

I generally agree with the OP, but not so much about Cassell versus Rondo. Cassell's experience and veteran leadership is valuable regardless of whether or not he is on the floor. But it is clearly obvious though that our guys simply play better with Rondo in the game.

Unless Rondo is having a horrible game, or Cassell is having a better game than he was having last night, and Ray is shooting well also, I don't really care to see Cassell out there in key moments...maybe as an offensive/defensive sub but nothing more.

ICanOutreboundWalter wrote:The problem with Cassell is that not only is he bad while he's in, but when he comes back out, all sense of ball movement is STILL gone. Rondo can't get back into a rhythm, and the entire team wants to play 1 on 1 again.

Eddie House might like to shoot as much as Cassell, but he facilitated ball movement. Sam I am does not.

To give Sam credit, though, in the 4th quarter last night Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were practically afraid of the ball. They needed someone in there who would be able to get a shot off...and Sam was a good option for that.

They were not afraid of the ball, they were well defended, and that means your PG and your PF can go 1vs1, KG dropped alot points and simply Rondo has to be trowed out when he starts to make silly decision like go under tha basket with Z an Big Ben waiting for him... Cassel can score 1vs1 at any time, down low or with the outside shot, this is his role on the team and he has to do it...

Best record in the league.....2nd round......1 game up.....still standing....playing D everyone....nuff said.....have a nice day.


ps.....3 wins from the East Finals
pss....11 wins from #17

Datruth345 wrote:There is no way around the fact that on numerous occasions since his signing, the first unit has built a double digit lead in the first only to have cassell come in and drive the offense to a screeching halt. His ball pounding and bad shot selection have let the opposing team back in the game with him on the court in the second quarter. For whatever the reason it may be, doesn't know the plays, not familiar with his teamates, not in rhythm coming off an injury to a new team, be it as it may, it is frustrating

that is the main gripe about him on the board, everyone knows he brings leadership championship, experience and the ability to hit big shots like only a few players in the league, there is no way around that either

but without cassell driving the offense in the ground last night, we shouldnt have been in trailing with 1:30 left when the other team is shooting 30 percent

Perfect argument. Shreds the OP's thesis, too.

Good post OP. I agree that Sam is getting unfairly thrown under the bus by a lot of people around here. Take game one against Cleveland for example. The Celtics were up ten after one with KG and Rondo dominating. I blame the coach for sitting KG and Rondo for the first 6 minutes of the 2nd quarter when they were the only two players who were producing.

Sam played terrible in the quarter, but Doc needed to stick with what was working. I had the sense that Boston should've been up 15 at the half if Doc used any common sense with his substitutions.

However, when Rondo got back in, he didn't do much after a great first quarter. He was afraid to take open shots and held onto the ball too long. He couldn't get the ball into Garnett in the post. Doc gave Rondo a rest to start the fourth and it just so happened that Sam got hot. Even the most ardent Cassell hater would have to admit that his two 3s and 10 fourth quarter points were key in that game, considering Allen and Pierce were both beyond inept offensively.

I have always been a big Cassell fan and I think he is taking good shots out there. He has already played a crucial role in many Celtics' victories, including the Spurs' regular season game, at least two of the Atlanta games, and most recently Tuesday's game 1. He's a veteran who can score and with a history of clutch performances. Considering Rondo hadn't done a thing since the first quarter in game one, I didn't mind seeing Sam out there considering he had a hot hand. Did I feel Rondo deserved to be benched? No. But these are professionals trying to win, need to stick with what is working.

I like when Roy quotes himself (and I agree).