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Should the Celtics Bring Ray Allen Off the Bench?
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:28 am
by magicfan4life05
He is obviously struggling offensively, but its not just tonight, its been a pattern kind of all season long (although hes had some nice games) and it was really brought to the spot light a couple of games ago with only getting 4 shots and ZERO points. I'm sure part of the blame should go on Doc Rivers, how hard it is to get a scorer like ray allen some looks?
I think with the second unit, allen could be more explosive looking for his shot, Barkley said last night the celtics lost the lead when both teams put their benches in, well this could definitely improve that and on top of that, get allen going b/c he's been struggling.
I said this earlier in the year:
magicfan4life05 wrote:ill probably get flamed, but does anyone else think they celtics should bring ray allen off the bench? I think they have enough scoring with kg and piece in the lineup and then insert posey for his D and you're not losing anything spacing wise with him in the game. Then you bring allen off the bench to help out the scoring/spark similar to dallas and san antonio..
obviously it's not a good idea now because how successful they've been but later on if they start to slip, it might be a good idea...imo having pierce, allen, and kg it too much firepower to start the game, but perfect to finish it if that makes sense...
http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=738166
I honestly think bringing him off the bench will help him get more shots and give him a better chance to get in rhythm. With KG and Pierce in the linup, I dont think Rivers is creative enough to get him more shots in the offense, leaving him with limited opportunities to score, and when he does get looks, if he misses a couple in a row, he's a in a never ending slump as we see now.
Another reason is the pistons are going right at him on defense trying to attack him and wear him down by running around all day chasing hamilton. If you put in posey as a starter, he can do a better job relatively and still shoot the 3 and spread the floor spacing wise. Then when Allen gets in the game, he doesnt have to waste so much energy on defense and concentrate fully on his scoring.
what do you think?
Re: Should the Celtics Bring Ray Allen Off the Bench?
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:34 am
by Al n' Perk No Layups!
magicfan4life05 wrote:He is obviously struggling offensively, but its not just tonight, its been a pattern kind of all season long (although hes had some nice games) and it was really brought to the spot light a couple of games ago with only getting 4 shots and ZERO points. I'm sure part of the blame should go on Doc Rivers, how hard it is to get a scorer like ray allen some looks?
I think with the second unit, allen could be more explosive looking for his shot, Barkley said last night the celtics lost the lead when both teams put their benches in, well this could definitely improve that and on top of that, get allen going b/c he's been struggling.
I said this earlier in the year:
-= original quote snipped =-
http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=738166I honestly think bringing him off the bench will help him get more shots and give him a better chance to get in rhythm. With KG and Pierce in the linup, I dont think Rivers is creative enough to get him more shots in the offense, leaving him with limited opportunities to score, and when he does get looks, if he misses a couple in a row, he's a in a never ending slump as we see now.
Another reason is the pistons are going right at him on defense trying to attack him and wear him down by running around all day chasing hamilton. If you put in posey as a starter, he can do a better job relatively and still shoot the 3 and spread the floor spacing wise. Then when Allen gets in the game, he doesnt have to waste so much energy on defense and concentrate fully on his scoring.
what do you think?
We've played Ray with the bench unit a lot in the playoffs and it hasn't worked. Ray just isn't making shots.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:00 am
by Ed Pinkney
I don't see any changes coming this season, you can't start making them now really. At least not to the starting unit, but that doesn't mean that his minutes can't be wound back and some different fives cant be used more frequently.
If we can another decent shooting guard, or Tony Allen somehow returns to somewhere close to his pre-injury form then I think it might be a definite option for next season.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:30 am
by GreenGrizz
Great Idea
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:31 am
by GreenGrizz
Let Tony Allen attack Rip Hamilton.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:29 am
by BillessuR6
No. We need to make our adjustments to the substitution pattern, we shouldn`t make a change to the starting 5. Ray Allen can`t even score when he is in with KG and Pierce on his own with the second unit he would look even worse. He can`t really create his own shot so he needs KG and Pierce in there to at least get an open look here and there...
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:19 am
by Rondo_Fan
Did anyone else think that JVG made a veiled reference to Ray Allen last night, when he praised McDyess for being able to handle the transition from star to role player?
Sometimes the pride factor of these guys is off the charts, and they don't function very well when they are no longer the main option.
Anyway, whether or not Ray Allen starts, I think that we should play Tony Allen more in certain ball games.
He's a guy that can get by his defender one on one and to the rim, which we could have used last night.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:51 am
by DieselCeltic
I don't care WHO RAY ALLEN is. I don't care if this are the PLAY OFFS. His play has been INCONSISTENT all season and he CHOKED every single game in the post season. I really don't give a **** about his PERSONAL problems leave that **** behind. I have personal problems too but when I come to work I get my **** done. He is getting a lot of cash and is playing like he was the 50th draft pick not 5th. Enough is enough. Doc doesn't have enough balls to do anything about it. Remember when Tony Allen started a few games. He was GREAT.
WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO OUR ROTATION LIKE WE HAD IN REGULAR SEASON. IT SURELY HAS GONE TO THE TOILET.
So yes a 100% YES, bench his ass and start Tony Allen.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:18 pm
by Kefa461
I will respond even though I don't think a post from a fan from another team should be posting about his/her own teams concerns. But in the spirit of niceness I will be civil.....
You have a team with 66 wins.....stay with the horse that you rode in on.
2-2 with 2 out of 3 at home...I see no need to panic....have faith in your decisions and go with it. To change now causes more possible harm then good and Ray has a record of keeping his head up and you hope he snaps out of it......
ps....team unity......now is when it really counts....when one guy is down....
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:39 pm
by HouseJersey?
GreenGrizz wrote:Let Tony Allen attack Rip Hamilton.
What kind of sick humor do you have? TA is god-awful nowadays. He brings nothing to the table on either side of the ball. He plain out sucks.
As far as bringing Ray off the bench, I like the idea but I just think it will be another additive to his lack of confidence he has right now.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:16 pm
by tombattor
HouseJersey? wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
What kind of sick humor do you have? TA is god-awful nowadays. He brings nothing to the table on either side of the ball. He plain out sucks.
As far as bringing Ray off the bench, I like the idea but I just think it will be another additive to his lack of confidence he has right now.
You know he sux now because you've seen him in that one 4-minute stint after not playing more than 13 seconds straight all playoffs?
I don't think Ray should come off the bench because then he'd need to be the main scoring option with the 2nd unit and at this point, I don't think he's capable of doing that. It's better to hide him with the starters and hopefully he'll slowly get out of it.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:31 pm
by celticfan42487
I think Ray Allen currently sucks. I think Ray Allen currently is a worse player then Posey.
But whatever defensive improvement Tony Allen would give us would be negated then turned over to a negative from Ray Allen due to dumb quick fouls and turnovers.
Do you really want to see Tony dribbling into that DET zone? Tony's never been more then a head down slasher at his best this season. And his best was about 3 games.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:56 pm
by tombattor
celticfan42487 wrote:I think Ray Allen currently sucks. I think Ray Allen currently is a worse player then Posey.
But whatever defensive improvement Tony Allen would give us would be negated then turned over to a negative from Ray Allen due to dumb quick fouls and turnovers.
Do you really want to see Tony dribbling into that DET zone? Tony's never been more then a head down slasher at his best this season. And his best was about 3 games.
The least TA can do is make Rip work a lot harder for his points. Right now, Rip, McDyess and Stuckey are carrying that team. Especially Rip. He's there for just about every big basket for the Pistons, this series.