Too damn complacent

[ParticleMan]

i gotta start a thread to call out the players here. this is getting ridiculous.

wtf is up with the inconsistent effort????

when the C's play with intensity, effort, and hustle, they are unstoppable (see game 3). then they come back in game 4 and throw up an absolute dud. guys standing around picking their nose for most of the shotclock, and then a crappy shot goes up. what the hell. guys not fighting through picks. letting Rip get to the rim easily twice in the 4th for big buckets.

it's incredible. every time the C's are in a position to win out at home, they seem to think "hey, nobody can beat us at home, we don't have to worry about losing this road game".

Ummm, guys, it's the ECF, f-in WAKE UP!!!

sure Det would have to play another perfect game to beat us at home, but guess what, they're capable of it.

This sort of inconsistent effort is going to bite us in the ass. Even if we manage to get out of this round, there's no way we're beating either the Spurs or Lakers with this attitude.

[celticfan42487]

yeah i didn't understand why at every chance we slowed it down and walked up the court.

At one point the announcers even said 3 on 2 if he goes... Rondo is brining the ball back out.

Doc didn't even care, he kept Sam in there for a long time with PJ. It's like he decided we're going to win this game without trying to get an easy baskets or making aggresive plays in transistions to get to the line since their in the penalty yayayya!

I really don't know if Doc feels we can't play with intensity to match DET or we our system will just fall apart... I just don't know.

edit: In conclusion pretty much we played like the damn arrogant Pistons last night and I hate it.

[ParticleMan]

I don't think it has much to do with Doc. I seriously doubt Doc is telling guys to do anything different between Game 3 and Game 4.

He can yell all he wants, but he can't make Rondo push the ball harder, he can't make guys fight thru screens or close out on shooters or move without the ball. The players have to show up. The only thing he can do is take out guys who aren't playing well, but there's only so many guys on the bench.

It's on the players to play harder, period.

[tombattor]

I don't think it's all that. Both teams are very good on defense and evenly matched. They've proven that each team is capable of making the other look bad and that both can win anywhere, any time. It's going to be a dog fight and go back and forth all the way.

[tombattor]

I don't think it has much to do with Doc. I seriously doubt Doc is telling guys to do anything different between Game 3 and Game 4.

He can yell all he wants, but he can't make Rondo push the ball harder, he can't make guys fight thru screens or close out on shooters or move without the ball. The players have to show up. The only thing he can do is take out guys who aren't playing well, but there's only so many guys on the bench.

It's on the players to play harder, period.

Well, Doc can start by not putting out garbage lineup combinations though. No more Sam, please!

[Tricky Ricky]

I agree, I think this is the first time all season Im blaming the players over Doc, I dont care who he put out there last night they all let me down. They looked like garbage and have been all postseason on the road other than game 3 in Det. Honestly this team just looks like the "lose on the road and come back and win at home" mentality that might kill us in the end

[cisco]

I blame the players also, but Doc deserves some blame as well for his lousy lineups with only one starter and his failure to at least try Eddie House when both Rondo and Cassell were stinking it up.

I place the blame as follows, in order:

1. Rondo & Sam = horrific point guard play, which I think was the main cause of the bad offense. They didn't make themselves a threat on offense, dribbled down the shot clock and being indecisive on when to pass, shoot, etc. Not getting the ball to the Big 3 in the right spots. The list goes on for the horrible point guard play.

2. KG. While his numbers look decent, he played like a SISSY. Did not get in the box, did not go to the hoop, was not aggressive AT ALL. Him being aggressive and dominating like he could, could have helped the C's win in spite of the poor point guard. play.

3. Ray Allen. I know people want to put him first, but we have been winning without Ray contributing many points. And when he does score a lot of points, we don't win.

4. Paul. I didn't think he had a bad overall game, although he shot poorly, but I did expect him to be more aggressive and possibly take over the game for a stretch to try to get the team back into it. It's kind of hard to blame him for that not knowing what Doc wanted out of him, but I still think he could have been a bit more aggressive, especially in the 4th quarter.

5. Doc. Where was Eddie House? I know he got hassled when bringing the ball up, but when both Rondo and Cassell are struggling, why not at least give Eddie a try? He could have used Paul to bring the ball up like he did in the Cleveland series. Paul is much better not just when he is scoring, but when he is making plays for his teammates. Why not take advantage of that or at least try it until it doesn't work.

[Tricky Ricky]

I blame the players also, but Doc deserves some blame as well for his lousy lineups with only one starter and his failure to at least try Eddie House when both Rondo and Cassell were stinking it up.

I place the blame as follows, in order:

1. Rondo & Sam = horrific point guard play, which I think was the main cause of the bad offense. They didn't make themselves a threat on offense, dribbled down the shot clock and being indecisive on when to pass, shoot, etc. Not getting the ball to the Big 3 in the right spots. The list goes on for the horrible point guard play.

2. KG. While his numbers look decent, he played like a SISSY. Did not get in the box, did not go to the hoop, was not aggressive AT ALL. Him being aggressive and dominating like he could, could have helped the C's win in spite of the poor point guard. play.

3. Ray Allen. I know people want to put him first, but we have been winning without Ray contributing many points. And when he does score a lot of points, we don't win.

4. Paul. I didn't think he had a bad overall game, although he shot poorly, but I did expect him to be more aggressive and possibly take over the game for a stretch to try to get the team back into it. It's kind of hard to blame him for that not knowing what Doc wanted out of him, but I still think he could have been a bit more aggressive, especially in the 4th quarter.

5. Doc. Where was Eddie House? I know he got hassled when bringing the ball up, but when both Rondo and Cassell are struggling, why not at least give Eddie a try? He could have used Paul to bring the ball up like he did in the Cleveland series. Paul is much better not just when he is scoring, but when he is making plays for his teammates. Why not take advantage of that or at least try it until it doesn't work.

I can agree with everything you said, the things Ive been most mad at are #2 and #4. KG NEEDS to go to the box, I dont think theres a player on the Pistons that can defend him down there yet he acts like a SISSY and wont go down there.

#4 upsets me because for Paul to be one of the greats and a true superstar in this league he needs to be able to take over which he failed to do in the last 7 or so mins of last nights game. I think Celtics fans expected him to but unfortunatly it looked like his shot was off last night

[celticfan42487]

I'm not blaming Doc for the lack of hustle of players 1-5. I am saying he seemed content with the line-ups out there playing that way.

My reasoning:

1) He played Sam for a long time and Sam is never going to run= Now Rondo sucked with pushing it last night but he can't do it all himself. So even if Rondo needs rest if you want some energy out there put in House, he's not going to do any worse on Billups then Sam is.

2) he left PJ out there for a long time against McNice. If Doc wanted to switch it up and bring some energy into the game.. Have Powe come in to cover McNice. Powe is going to box out and get some over the back fouls on the agreesive McNice or at worse is going to be able to run around and stick with him offensively. MORE to the point this was very doable with Sheed out. I'll take McNice and Maxiell vs Powe and KG on the boards thank you very much. PJ is the better player but he's not suppose to play for a very long consistent stretch.


I can see what Doc is thinking with go with the vets, keep turnovers low. But the playoffs is won with heart as well as consistency. At the very least Powe could of been brought in to give PJ a well deserved break and applause.

[triplet1984]

You're being too hard on the players. Everything you said could also apply to the Pistons between Game 2 and Game 3. This is normal for teams that are reliant on defense to win. It's a lot like the 04 Pistons/Pacers series in fact (see Game 4 and 5). It requires extraordinary concentration, effort, and intensity to play consistently awesome team D. not even the best team of the past decade, The Spurs, can do it. They've gotten blown out in the playoffs a few times themselves.

[DJToLarry]

I think it was just a matter of who wanted Game 4 more. The Pistons REALLY needed that game. The Celtics got game 3 and took back home court. The Celts just did not bring the right mindset into that game. It was more like they were thinking: "It's a bonus if we win, if not we already got a home court back". That's not going to cut it against a veteran Pistons team needing a win.

[dinoz]

You're being too hard on the players. Everything you said could also apply to the Pistons between Game 2 and Game 3. This is normal for teams that are reliant on defense to win. It's a lot like the 04 Pistons/Pacers series in fact (see Game 4 and 5). It requires extraordinary concentration, effort, and intensity to play consistently awesome team D. not even the best team of the past decade, The Spurs, can do it. They've gotten blown out in the playoffs a few times themselves.

This point is key. And the level of intensity to play lock-down D cannot be sustained game after game. A team can only gear up emotionally so many times.

[MVP16]

Jeff Van Gundy mentioned at the start of the game that somebody from the Celtics told him that "all the pressure is on the Pistons." He pointed out that it's bs and I agree. That's what you get when you go into a game thinking that you have nothing to lose. We came out flat from the beginning, let Detroit set the tone and couldn't recover. The team was satisfied with getting game 3 and going away with a split.

[ParticleMan]

You're being too hard on the players. Everything you said could also apply to the Pistons between Game 2 and Game 3. This is normal for teams that are reliant on defense to win. It's a lot like the 04 Pistons/Pacers series in fact (see Game 4 and 5). It requires extraordinary concentration, effort, and intensity to play consistently awesome team D. not even the best team of the past decade, The Spurs, can do it. They've gotten blown out in the playoffs a few times themselves.

I agree with this. It's just frustrating to see great effort one game, then a piss-poor one the next. The Pistons have been guilty of this too, it's not unique to the C's. It really does come down to who wants it more. Hopefully the C's will be able to ride home court emotion. It's a 3-game series now.

[celticfan42487]

The Pistons aren't just guilty of it, this is the quality of that defines the Pistons. And the sole reason why I hate their players.

We have 2 hungry vets and a couple of 20 years olds. There is NO REASON why they shouldn't be given their all or they shouldn't be put in a position to use their desire as an asset.

I'm happy for the most part the Celts kept it close last nigh, I'm satisfied with the defense from everyone except Ray Allen. But to not have us run.. to not have us attack when they are in the penalty.. when we need it most. It just reeks of saving it for a later game.

Pistons already had their 10% chance over ride game in game 2 when we played well enough to win but lost why in the world would we want to chance another one?

[JHTruth]

Eh, I think what you saw is a Pistons team desperate to win playing all out. If anyone thought the Pistons would just roll over and let the C's go Globetrotters again in Game 4 on them, they are a fool. Pistons were able to assert themselves better playing much harder in game 4. It's not like the C's didn't care, it's that the Pistons were able to adjust to the things that beat them in game 3. Buckle in because this is going 7..

[UGA Hayes]

I thought our effort was actually pretty good. I wouldn't hang the team out to dry b/c they missed some running oppurtunity. WE should have seen it coming after the fourth quarter of game 3. WE got Riley-balled. The Pistons basically fouled us on every play in the second half and tested whether the refs would call it. Our game shooting percentages were bad but they are missed leading given the number of times the Pistons were called for fouls.