Playoff choke jobs by players...Any bigger than Ray Allen?

GonzoLays · Post #1 » by **GonzoLays** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:44 pm

Can anyone recall a bigger playoff choke job by a money player than Ray Allen? I can't.

The reason we are not sitting in the finals right now is Ray Allen. We went from a legit big three in the regular season to a big two in the playoffs and that **** this team up.

The C's rely on Ray Allen to hit shots. But that mofo is missing WIDE OPEN three pointers with a regularity. If he hits his wide open shots like he did in the regular season, we would have beaten Atlanta and Cleveland far earlier than what we did. If he hit his free throws and wide open threes in the 4th quarter last night, we probably could have beaten Detroit last night.

What Ray Allen is doing is like James Worthy averaging 10 points a game in the playoffs; Tony Parker shooting 31% from the field; Robert Parish averaging 9 pts a game. YOU NEED YOUR BIG PLAYERS TO PLAY BIG IN THE PLAYOFFS.

THE ONLY REASON WE ARE STRUGGLING IN THE PLAYOFFS IS BECAUSE OF THE CHOKE JOB BY RAY ALLEN. What else can you say?

tombattor · Post #2 » by **tombattor** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:49 pm

GonzoLays wrote:THE ONLY REASON WE ARE STRUGGLING IN THE PLAYOFFS IS BECAUSE OF THE CHOKE JOB BY RAY ALLEN. What else can you say?

Well, he's not the only reason we're struggling, but he's certainly the biggest reason.

mr_sunshine · Post #3 » by **mr_sunshine** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:50 pm

You need to post more please.

A major key to the offense was spacing. This allowed Pierce and KG to find Perk inside for easy layups, or hit Rondo outside for a mid-range jumper. Well with Ray not hitting shots and Rondo's confidence crushed by Doc playing Sam, this does not work anymore. Nothing on offense comes easy since they just collapse the lane now. Our only offense is Pierce driving and kicking out to KG for a jumper, Pierce driving and finishing, or KG making a difficult shot in the post. Other than that in about half the games Rondo decides to show up and make extremely difficult shots and passes, and in the other half he makes stupid turnovers and misses uncontested layups. It's really frustrating to see this happen because with Ray's limited effectiveness it slows ball movement and no one over rotates to Ray which leaves other players open for easy scores.

DieselCeltic · Post #4 » by **DieselCeltic** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:55 pm

Does he know that HE COMPLETELY SUCKS is my question. I wouldn't be surprised if we boo him at home if he chokes. Maybe that'll lit up fire under his ass

cisco · Post #5 » by **cisco** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:05 pm

I'm disappointed in Ray as well, but I would hope our fans wouldn't boo him. Not sure why fans would think booing would make players play better. :nonono:

celticfan42487 · Post #6 » by **celticfan42487** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:22 pm

idk should you cheer someone who is doing poorly? Or maybe the fans should just be silent.

GonzoLays · Post #7 » by **GonzoLays** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:28 pm

Just imagine if Ray Allen played like the Ray Allen during the regular season.

Where would this team be?

We were 66-16 because we had a BIG THREE. Now we are 10-8 in the playoffs because have a BIG TWO.

The only thing that has changed for this team is Ray Allen's performance.

Pierce and Garnett are playing at their regular season numbers. Only Ray if **** everything up.

CeltsfaninDC · Post #8 » by **CeltsfaninDC** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:39 pm

GonzoLays wrote:Can anyone recall a bigger playoff choke job by a money player than Ray Allen? I can't.?

Theres hundreds..... Chris Webber is one right off the top of my head (and I didn't think very hard).

and I point to the opposite bench and give you.......
Chauncy Billups. But he's injured you say.....not according to his team doctors or coach. and you can't tell me Ray is playing 100% either.

GonzoLays · Post #9 » by **GonzoLays** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:45 pm

CeltsfaninDC wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Theres hundreds..... Chris Webber is one right off the top of my head (and I didn't think very hard).

and I point to the opposite bench and give you.......
Chauncy Billups. But he's injured you say.....not according to his team doctors or coach. and you can't tell me Ray is playing 100% either.

Not even close, my friend.

Ray is crackalacking at 35% shooting and 11 points per game in the playoffs.

CWebb in the playoffs when he was in Sacramento:
-----------Pts--Rebs--Assists
1999-00 24.4 9.6 5.4
2000-01 23.3 11.5 3.1
2001-02 23.7 10.8 4.7
2002-03 23.7 8.3 3.6
2003-04 18.4 8.3 3.7

You call that choking? That's freaking hilarious.

And Chauncey Billups not injured? Word? When did you hear this?

CeltsfaninDC · Post #10 » by **CeltsfaninDC** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:49 pm

GonzoLays wrote:And Chauncey Billups not injured? Word? When did you hear this?

Pregame show. They made a big deal out of it. The team doctor and trainer said there was nothing wrong with him. The coach said there was nothing wrong with him and he confirmed this himself.

I'll get back to you on the rest.....

eitanr · Post #11 » by **eitanr** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:55 pm

The C's are winning despite Ray Allen. I am not sure why Tony Allen has not seen any minutes at all these playoffs. I think Doc needs to reevaluate the rotation and sit Ray for a more extended time and play Tony. Relying on Ray's inconsistencies and wary defense these playoffs have been very risky.

JCizzle · Post #12 » by **JCizzle** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:20 pm

We could really use the Tony Allen of last year over Ray. At least he would consistently attack the rim and get some points. Better than a shooter that can't shoot or get any separation. Plus Tony is the better defender.

return2glory · Post #13 » by **return2glory** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:28 pm

I said the same thing about 2 weeks ago and people started defending Ray. I even changed my avatar hoping it may bring Ray some luck. It did in game 2 but that was it.

Ray Allen is a choker, plain and simple. I was watching a UCONN game about a month ago. It was a Tournament game vs GTown with Ray Allen going about 2-14 from the field.

I agree with the OP. This would be a much better team if Ray was playing like he did in the regular season. We went from the Big 3 to just KG and Pierce. That is why we aren't the same team any more.

tombattor · Post #14 » by **tombattor** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:29 pm

JCizzle wrote:We could really use the Tony Allen of last year over Ray. At least he would consistently attack the rim and get some points. Better than a shooter that can't shoot or get any separation. Plus Tony is the better defender.

We can use TA of this year too. When he got some real consistent PT, he played well.

lojowo · Post #15 » by **lojowo** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:53 pm

Has anyone noticed that the Celtics lost all 3 games that Ray Allen scored 20 points?

We dont need Twenty out of you Ray, just take good shots!!!

Post #16 » by **ParticleMan** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:54 pm

Ray's playoff numbers over his career have been better than his RS numbers.
So it's not like he has a history of choking.
But he's definitely pulling an Arod this time out.

The Rondo Show · Post #17 » by **The Rondo Show** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:58 pm

return2glory wrote:Ray Allen is a choker, plain and simple.

He's played awful in these playoffs, but this is really not true. He's played great in the playoffs on basically every occasion but this year:

1998-1999: 3 games, 22.3 points per game on 53.2% from the field, 47.3% from 3 (9-19), 61.5% from the line (8-13), 7.3 rebounds per game, 4.3 assists per game.
1999-2000: 5 games, 22 points per game on 44.4% shooting, 38.5% from 3, 90.9% from the line, 6.6 rebounds per game and 2.6 assists per game.
2000-2001: 18 games (ECF), 25.1 points per game on 47.7% shooting, 47.9% from 3 (57-119!), 91.9% from the line, 4.1 boards per game and 6 assists per game.
2004-2005: 11 games, 26.5 points per game on 47.4% shooting from the field, 37.8% from 3, 88.9% from the line, 4.3 boards per game and 3.9 assists per game.

He's also had a **** of buzzer beaters over the years, suggesting that pressure doesn't really rattle him. One bad playoff run and one game you saw of him on ESPN Classic from college doesn't off set 4 years of great playoff success and make him "a choker, plain and simple". He sucks right now because his shot is way off and has disappeared at the worst possible time and he's only a bit above average at going to the rim...not because he can't handle the pressure of playoff basketball.

celtsloyalty · Post #18 » by **celtsloyalty** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:10 pm

yesterday it seemed like everyone was afraid to shoot a jump shot. On multiple occasions I saw Posey, Pierce, Ray, Kg, Cassel have the wide open shot, not shoot it, then realize they should have shot it when they had the light of day and then force a contested shot up. At that point they have to just pass the ball.

Ray has been defending well this postseason but at this point its time to give either house, allen, or cassel some of rays minutes to see if they can do better offensivley and hope they can play equal defense.

Matt34520 · Post #19 » by **Matt34520** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:21 pm

I'm a big Ray Allen fan. This stinks.

threrf23 · Post #20 » by **threrf23** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:32 pm

The whole team Doc included was poor in game 4 as if they wanted to lose because they want the series to go seven games.

Ray was poor for most of the game - not just missing shots but one a couple plays just made bad passes or looked lost defensively. He at least made some contributions down the stretch and played his part then. His pass to KG was actually a very good, and smart pass that hit KG in the chest. KG just wasn't alert.

No need to single Ray out.

I have no problem with Cassell first off the bench in that game, he's a better fit against defensive pressure than House. But when he's not playing well, thats when House gets his turn, or at least should.

Are biggest problem in game 4 was a lack of energy and intensity. Our two most energetic and intense players off the bench are Tony Allen and Leon Powe, and they are also arguably our best players off the bench in terms of ability and all-around statistics. They didn't play, and further if we want Ray Allen to play with added spark he needs more rest or he cannot expected to be overly effective. Actions speak louder than words and confidence/energy/etcetera tend to trickle down from the top. Therefore I am forced to put most of the blame for the game 4 loss on Doc's shoulders. No need for Ray to take any of that blame.