ImageImageImage

Ray at Point Guard?(for stretches)

Moderators: bisme37, Froob, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts, Parliament10, canman1971, shackles10, snowman

Rocky5000
Analyst
Posts: 3,386
And1: 0
Joined: Jan 15, 2008

Ray at Point Guard?(for stretches) 

Post#1 » by Rocky5000 » Sat May 31, 2008 10:15 pm

What do you guys think of using Ray as the point guard for short stretches in the event that LA starts roaming away from Rondo? I've heard that they might use Kobe as a free defender and leave Rondo open. When we embarrassed the lakers in LA, Tony Allen was actually our starting point guard.(Rondo was out with an injury.) This worked because the Lakers don't have anyone like Lindsay hunter who can really bother shaky ball handlers. We should be able to play Eddie a lot as a result, but I think that if we were to go with a bigger lineup of Ray, Pierce, Posey, KG, and Perk we could really take advantage of the Lakers. The 'benchmob' of the Lakers isn't versatile enough to deal with that lineup. Farmar, Turiaf, Walton, and Vu..jfkic aren't going to do much to help them because they are all either smallish or slow players.

Ray vs. Fisher/Farmar is a big advantage for us. Ray will just shoot over these guys and will out run Fisher.

Pierce vs. Kobe is an advantage for the Lakers, but definitely closer than Ray vs. Kobe. Paul can also use his size more to his advantage if he's matched up with Kobe.

Posey vs. Radmanovic/Walton/Odom. Posey can stick with these guys and totally take them out of the Laker's offense. I think he will be a huge factor in this series because of his versatility and his ability to guard any type of player. We can't keep him on the bench for too long.

KG vs. Odom/Turiaf --
:rofl:

Perk vs. Gasol -- Not much we can do here. Just try to make Gasol think he's playing on the Grizz again.
cdubbz
RealGM
Posts: 15,443
And1: 3,990
Joined: May 05, 2005
Location: Oakland
 

 

Post#2 » by cdubbz » Sat May 31, 2008 10:37 pm

Rayray doesnt have enough ball handling skill to tell ya the truth. I can see PP bringing up the ball though and initiating the offense.
Kuya wrote: a good agent collects all the data, including quotes to give them leverage in contract deals.
cdubbz
RealGM
Posts: 15,443
And1: 3,990
Joined: May 05, 2005
Location: Oakland
 

 

Post#3 » by cdubbz » Sat May 31, 2008 10:39 pm

Dude i think youre underestimating fisher/farmar and odom/turiaf. Fisher can bother the hell out of point gaurds and he is a flopper and farmar is quick enough to stay with ray allen.

Odom turiaf can D up KG no question, not saying they will shut him down, but theyre both long and are shot blockers.
Kuya wrote: a good agent collects all the data, including quotes to give them leverage in contract deals.
Fencer reregistered
RealGM
Posts: 40,988
And1: 27,858
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

 

Post#4 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat May 31, 2008 10:40 pm

I've been thinking about this for defensive purposes. Here's what I mean:

Wouldn't it be nice to cover Kobe with Pierce or Posey rather than Ray? Wouldn't it be nice to do this without Ray having to cover a guy who's 6'10"?

Well, we can have all that. Ray just has to cover the Laker PGs.
Banned temporarily for, among other sins, being "Extremely Deviant".
UGA Hayes
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,035
And1: 19,742
Joined: Jan 05, 2004
Location: real gm

 

Post#5 » by UGA Hayes » Sat May 31, 2008 10:53 pm

I'm interested to see how they defend Ray Clevland and Detroit sent doubles at him knowing he is a reluctant passer from the wings. That doesn't really strike me as the Lakers style. I could see them trying to defend him straight up. Defending a gimpy Ginobili could end up doing us a favor since they were able to get away with single teaming him more thatn should have been.
daveisceltics
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,457
And1: 517
Joined: Jun 30, 2006
Location: South Boston
       

 

Post#6 » by daveisceltics » Sat May 31, 2008 11:49 pm

After watching Cassell stink up the game for us last night.
I would more then willing to let Ray torch Fish face.
Knicksfan20
RealGM
Posts: 18,678
And1: 5,759
Joined: Aug 19, 2006

 

Post#7 » by Knicksfan20 » Sun Jun 1, 2008 12:24 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:I've been thinking about this for defensive purposes. Here's what I mean:

Wouldn't it be nice to cover Kobe with Pierce or Posey rather than Ray? Wouldn't it be nice to do this without Ray having to cover a guy who's 6'10"?

Well, we can have all that. Ray just has to cover the Laker PGs.





If you wanted to put out a defensive lineup....why the hell would you replace Rondo with allen?
daveisceltics
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,457
And1: 517
Joined: Jun 30, 2006
Location: South Boston
       

 

Post#8 » by daveisceltics » Sun Jun 1, 2008 12:42 am

He means for stretches.
When Rondo leaves the game.
So Cassell doesn't have to come in.
Knicksfan20
RealGM
Posts: 18,678
And1: 5,759
Joined: Aug 19, 2006

 

Post#9 » by Knicksfan20 » Sun Jun 1, 2008 12:47 am

Ahh gotcha...sorry misunderstood what he ment.
Fencer reregistered
RealGM
Posts: 40,988
And1: 27,858
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

 

Post#10 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Jun 1, 2008 1:03 am

Yep.

It's more like replacing Cassel, House, or (yes) Rondo w/ Posey.

In another thread, a Laker fan said that Allen actually tends to do a very good job on Kobe. Still, some variety is surely called for.

Let's wish Tony Allen a speedy recovery!
Banned temporarily for, among other sins, being "Extremely Deviant".
User avatar
dwestside
Rookie
Posts: 1,214
And1: 0
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Location: Foxboro

 

Post#11 » by dwestside » Sun Jun 1, 2008 1:11 am

cdubbz wrote:Rayray doesnt have enough ball handling skill to tell ya the truth. I can see PP bringing up the ball though and initiating the offense.


Thanks for the lecture. I've watched nearly every Celtic game this season and can tell you if you think Pierce is a better option bringing the ball up the court than Ray Allen, than you haven't been watching enough. To tell ya the truth.
Image
Rocky5000
Analyst
Posts: 3,386
And1: 0
Joined: Jan 15, 2008

 

Post#12 » by Rocky5000 » Sun Jun 1, 2008 1:51 am

cdubbz wrote:Dude i think youre underestimating fisher/farmar and odom/turiaf. Fisher can bother the hell out of point gaurds and he is a flopper and farmar is quick enough to stay with ray allen.

Odom turiaf can D up KG no question, not saying they will shut him down, but theyre both long and are shot blockers.


Fisher used to be able to bother people and can still flop, but TA was able to do fine against him. If Tony 'The Turnover' Allen can do it, I hope Ray can too.

I think the Farmar/Fisher sentence I wrote didn't come across right. I agree Farmar is quick enough to stay with Ray, but Fisher won't be able to do it.

When it comes to Odom/Turiaf, I think you're underestimating a hyped up KG in the finals. 8)

About the ballhandling, I agree with dwest. Pierce has always seemed pretty turnover prone if he's handling the ball a lot and for his career has averaged 3+ turnovers (same in the playoffs). Ray on the other hand has a pretty mean crossover and his dribble seems much more controlled.

At the beginning of the season, Ray said that he would like to play some point guard, but we haven't seen it yet. Maybe Doc will finally give him a shot?
RayAllen#34
Sophomore
Posts: 100
And1: 0
Joined: Apr 20, 2008

 

Post#13 » by RayAllen#34 » Sun Jun 1, 2008 2:14 am

cdubbz wrote:Rayray doesnt have enough ball handling skill to tell ya the truth. I can see PP bringing up the ball though and initiating the offense.


When Ray was traded to Seattle, he was played at the point for the first few games. I dont know if anyone remembers, but he was averaging nearly a triple double in those first few games before they moved him to his natural SG position. He's capable of bringing up the ball, but obviously not as good as rondo at getting it to where its gotta go.
Image
Rocky5000
Analyst
Posts: 3,386
And1: 0
Joined: Jan 15, 2008

 

Post#14 » by Rocky5000 » Sun Jun 1, 2008 3:57 am

^Awesome. I didn't know that. He is a much better passer than Paul and I think by playing him off the ball as much as we do, we've lost a little of what Ray can give us. To have him work the point for a little bit might help kickstart his scoring as well.
User avatar
Dr Aki
RealGM
Posts: 35,665
And1: 31,898
Joined: Mar 03, 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
   

 

Post#15 » by Dr Aki » Sun Jun 1, 2008 6:50 am

thats great...

experiment with ray at the point at this point in time

thats the way to win championships!

DO IT DOC! DO IT!
Image
User avatar
3pt %
General Manager
Posts: 8,377
And1: 2,788
Joined: Oct 27, 2003

 

Post#16 » by 3pt % » Sun Jun 1, 2008 7:38 am

ha, good post
Captain_Caveman wrote:Probably couldn't spell "cat" if you spotted him the C and the A.
daveisceltics
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,457
And1: 517
Joined: Jun 30, 2006
Location: South Boston
       

 

Post#17 » by daveisceltics » Sun Jun 1, 2008 11:39 am

Akiho wrote:thats great...

experiment with ray at the point at this point in time

thats the way to win championships!

DO IT DOC! DO IT!


You must have not seen Sam bringing the ball up the court (or attempting to)
He could probably get it across with ease against Farmar though.
UGA Hayes
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,035
And1: 19,742
Joined: Jan 05, 2004
Location: real gm

 

Post#18 » by UGA Hayes » Sun Jun 1, 2008 12:36 pm

Uh Ray really struggles to dribble right now. I'd much rather Pierce bring it up in a pinch.
User avatar
Dr Aki
RealGM
Posts: 35,665
And1: 31,898
Joined: Mar 03, 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
   

 

Post#19 » by Dr Aki » Sun Jun 1, 2008 12:52 pm

u guys think tampering with a lineup that made it to the finals before game 1 is the right way to adjust?

if doc rivers did that, it would mean panic signals straight away

obviously give your original five a go before making rash adjustments
Image
User avatar
cavsfan_osiris
Starter
Posts: 2,173
And1: 4
Joined: Oct 28, 2007

 

Post#20 » by cavsfan_osiris » Sun Jun 1, 2008 4:24 pm

I've been saying it for some time now. Sam Cassell should be on the bench picking splinters out his ass while Ray Allen operates as the team's backup PG. He has actually looked pretty good in limited minutes with the offense running through him. If it's not working out with Ray then PP should run the show, but Ray still has to be on the court to spread things out.

House is not a point guard, but should be on the floor to spread the court so he has to get minutes off the bench and Ray Allen should run the offense. I've been impressed with the energy House has played with and how he is determined to help the Celts win even if he isn't hitting 3 pointers.

Sam Cassell serves no purpose in this series other than stabbing Ubuntu in the back. Guarding Farmar is a horrible matchup for him and the last thing the Celts need is Cassell helping the Lakers second unit explode. The Lakers are the superior team already, every minute is huge in this series. The Celts were able to overcome Cassell's horrific play against the eastern conference teams, but they aren't going to overcome poor distribution of minutes and strategy against the Lakers. The Lakers feed on coaching mistakes and matchup problems.

Return to Boston Celtics