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Anyone know what started Ray and Kobe's beef?

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=795558

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Anyone know what started Ray and Kobe's beef?

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 3:10 am
by Ed Pinkney
I vaguely remember hearing about it a long time before we traded for Ray but can't really remember what is was about.

Anyone know?

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 3:12 am
by greenbeans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQyDSL1rQVQ

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 4:01 am
by Dr. Laker
Ray has been jealous of Kobe since Ray was in Milwaukee. Ray was drafted 8 spots higher but has never gotten the acclaim that Kobe has.

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 4:14 am
by Ed Pinkney
Ummmm, that doesn't sound quite right.

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 4:22 am
by tanat-0s
Jeff (Toronto): Can you give me a background on the "Allen vs Bryant" beef, and is their any chance Kobe doesn't average more then 35 ppg? I mean who can stop him on the Celtics?

Sports Nation Bill Simmons: I don't know the background, it's a total mystery. Even stranger, I have asked multiple people who normally would know the answer to a question like that, and even THEY didn't know. Which means there's a 100% chance it's over a woman.

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 5:19 am
by vegas_runnin_rebel
Dr. Laker wrote:Ray has been jealous of Kobe since Ray was in Milwaukee. Ray was drafted 8 spots higher but has never gotten the acclaim that Kobe has.

That's a stupid explanation. I could just as easily say that Kobe is jealous of Ray's reputation as the best pure shooter in the game. Or maybe it's the fact that Ray has a squeaky clean image and Kobe doesn't. Or maybe it's because Ray Allen played the star role in He Got Game. All of those points carry as much as weight as your flimsy explanation. I'd argue that real answer is none of the above.

The real reason that they don't like each other is not because of jealousy, it's because they're rivals that play the same position and they go at each other extremely hard. Further adding flames to the fire is that Ray has a problem with all of the trash talking/taunting Kobe does against him, and Bryant didn't appreciate Ray calling him out in the press after the Shaq trade.

And I know you Lakers fans like to take the stance that because Kobe is the [much] better player, it makes it less of a rivalry, but that's false. Kobe is the best SG in the game, and if he didn't create rivalries with players who are "beneath" him he wouldn't have any rivals at all. I don't think it's a coincidence that Kobe broke the single game three point record against Ray Allen. He's so uber competitive that he took the one thing that Ray is better at than him (3-point shooting), and then hit 3-pointer after 3-pointer in his face all game long.

And to Ray's credit, he usually raises his game whenever he faces Kobe. As Tex Winters recently put it when discussing who Kobe should guard in this series, "I don't think you want to put Kobe on [Ray] Allen because Allen has always been very effective against Kobe."

In their two head to head matchups last year, Ray averaged 31 a game against Kobe. So yes, the rivalry is real, and it doesn't stem from jealousy. It stems from competitiveness.

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 5:32 am
by tlee324
It was based on what Ray said back in the day when Kobe and Shaq split up.

He said this:

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 5:53 am
by eatyourchildren
BadMuthaCeltic wrote:It was based on what Ray said back in the day when Kobe and Shaq split up.

He said this:

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 6:27 am
by vegas_runnin_rebel
BadMuthaCeltic wrote:It was based on what Ray said back in the day when Kobe and Shaq split up.

He said this:

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 6:34 am
by PREDATOR
RAy wasnt "exactly right "you conveniently forgot to put this also

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 6:37 am
by mr_sunshine
eatyourchildren wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



A superstar demanding a trade or help if his team starts Kwame at Center and Smush at Point Guard? I want to call Ray Allen and ask him about the interest rate, he's so clairvoyant.


And now saying, "LKR4LYFE YO!" What a fantastic guy! I wonder who Kobe will blame when they lose this? Maybe he'll call out Bynum for being injured? Or Lamar for being lefty? Or maybe he'll run Phil out of town this time? Only time will tell, but certainly if the Lakers don't win the blame will fall far from Kobe Bean Bryant, since he is a god amongst men and his teammates are lucky he let them be on his team.

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 6:49 am
by Datruth345
PREDATOR wrote:RAy wasnt "exactly right "you conveniently forgot to put this also

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 6:57 am
by PREDATOR
right,...

you know what was exactly right? boston fans chanting mvp last year. THey were exactly right, kobe is the mvp. Will you guys chant mvp again this year?

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 6:57 am
by crm0922
I just don't understand how anyone could actually root for a guy like Kobe. He is SO fake and full of ****, it is impossible to respect he guy regardless of his basketball skills. Not to mention all the allegations of untoward behavior with women who are high school aged.

C

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 7:00 am
by Datruth345
PREDATOR wrote:right,...

you know what was exactly right? boston fans chanting mvp last year. THey were exactly right, kobe is the mvp. Will you guys chant mvp again this year?


obviously they werent Boston fans Einstien

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 7:04 am
by eatyourchildren
crm0922 wrote:I just don't understand how anyone could actually root for a guy like Kobe. He is SO fake and full of ****, it is impossible to respect he guy regardless of his basketball skills. Not to mention all the allegations of untoward behavior with women who are high school aged.

C


I respect him for his basketball skills. Einstein might or might not have been a jerk, but I'm sure you respect his theory of relativity.

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 7:06 am
by PREDATOR
crm0922- do you know kobe? have you met him before? I could make allegations about you does that make it true? Its impossible to you, to others we respect kobe because of his will to win and his dedication to the sport. Nobody trains harder than kobe, that is something you can respect.


Datruth345 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



obviously they werent Boston fans Einstien


Nice comeback..... you will never hear any mvp chants in LA... einstein.

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 7:21 am
by vegas_runnin_rebel
Looks exactly right to me...

"He's going to be very selfish and he feels like he needs to show the league and the people in this country that he is better without Shaq, that he can win without Shaq," Allen said. "That he can still average 30 points and he can still carry the load on this team.

Kobe is the most competitive player in the league. Does anyone deny the fact that he wanted to prove to the league that he could carry a team on his own? He was tired of living In Shaq's shadow. And as Allen predicted, the first thing Kobe did was go out and win the scoring title. He averaged what, 35 points a game that year? I don't think it's a stretch to label his shot selection that season as selfish.


The point production is not so much what people will look at because (Tracy) McGrady did it in Orlando and Allen (Iverson) did it in Philly. But can you win championships? I think that is special. Can he make everybody better?

A good point.

"He has the talent. But is his attitude going to sometimes allow him to take the backseat and let Lamar Odom shine and let Caron Butler have his nights and bring those big guys (Chris Mihm and Slava Medvedenko) along?"

Allen was right. Kobe didn't do a good job of getting his teamates involved that season.

"If Kobe doesn't see that he needs two and a half good players on this team to be a legitimate playoff contender and maybe win a championship, in about a year or two he will be calling out to (Lakers owner) Jerry Buss that we need some help in here, or trade me. We'll all be saying we told you so when he says that."

100% true. Lakers fans can dismiss this one as Allen merely stating the obvious, but if that was the case...Why were you all so shocked when Kobe demanded to be traded?

And last but not least, I love how you Lakers fans are hiding behind the Kwame and Smush excuse. Newsflash: When Allan made his comments about Kobe, the Lakers still had Caron Bulter. Between Kobe, Butler, and Odom, that was more than enough talent to make the playoffs. And their point guard was Atkins, not Smush. If you're going to make excuses for Kobe, at least know the players that were on the roster when Ray made his prediction.

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 7:49 am
by eatyourchildren
Butler was still only in his 2nd year as a player.

Odom was still the 2nd option.

Atkins isn't exactly what you would call an improvement on Smush.

And it was more than enough talent to make the playoffs. Nobody said otherwise. But unless you more than just glanced at the standings, you'd remember that the Lakers went through some serious injuries that year and a major coaching change mid-season. Not too many teams defy odds to make the playoffs based on those circumstances. Well, unless you're in the East.

Not to mention, from that "more than enough talent" team, they traded away Butler for Kwame Brown and replaced Atkins with Smush Parker. Is that supposed to be an improvement or something.

So yay, good for Ray Allen being right. Him and every other media analyst at the time who was saying the exact same things. Like I said, someone get him on the phone so I can ask him about this recession.


And that's not to say that this finals could really put all of that to rest anyway. Looks like Kobe's pouting DID work, whether or not it was right for him to pout.

Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 8:07 am
by vegas_runnin_rebel
eatyourchildren wrote:Butler was still only in his 2nd year as a player.

Odom was still the 2nd option.

Atkins isn't exactly what you would call an improvement on Smush.

And it was more than enough talent to make the playoffs. Nobody said otherwise. But unless you more than just glanced at the standings, you'd remember that the Lakers went through some serious injuries that year and a major coaching change mid-season. Not too many teams defy odds to make the playoffs based on those circumstances. Well, unless you're in the East.

Injuries aside, I think the real problem with that team was Rudy T. Horrible coach.

eatyourchildren wrote:
So yay, good for Ray Allen being right. Him and every other media analyst at the time who was saying the exact same things. Like I said, someone get him on the phone so I can ask him about this recession.

Were Lakers fans saying the same thing? I don't think so. Ray Allen may be the master of the obvious, but the vast majority of Lakers fans all thought he was dead wrong at the time he made those comments.
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