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I think Kobe is a terrific defender. But he is not a first team quality defender. It is really a joke that he has received that award.

Watching Pierce struggle against teams with truly great defenders like Bowen over the years and then watching him average 27 ppg against the Lakers always made me wonder. In this series I can see the good things Kobe does defensively but first team? No way.

Kobe has only covered Pierce a minority of the series so far. And a lot of Pierce's success has been in transition, where nobody (except perhaps a center who hangs back like they sometimes used to in the old days) can be expected to be a shutdown defender.

Kobe's uninspired defense of Pierce this series isn't strong evidence of his defensive prowess, one way or the other.

Kobe isn't guarding Pierce becuase they would have just as bad a matchup on Ray.

I think we might want to hold off on the Kobe is overrated anything till the Gino dances, becaue my guess is that he isn't going quietly.

Kobe is a very good defender he is not overrated at that part of his game.

I agree with the general consensus that when Kobe decides to, on any particular posession he's going to play defense and get a stop, he's an exceptional defender.

But that same is true for Pierce. The defense he's shown this year, especially in the playoffs, has always been somewhere in his reserve -- it's just been a matter of Paul playing that way. And even in the playoffs, Pierce has been better defensively than he was during the regular season.

Outside of Jordan, though, I'm at a loss for a player that was consistently great at both ends of the floor even 90% of the time.

Just because Kobe CAN play excellent D, doesn't mean he should be a first team all defender. He doesn't play tough D the entire game. And he got the reputation from the days when he was playing with Shaq, where he could take as many chances as he wanted without getting burned because he had the ultimate mistake-eraser behind him.

At this point, by that same logic, you can make an argument that Lebron should be a first-team all defender because when he wants to he can pretty much lock down any single player with his amazing combination of power, size, and speed. In his matchups against Kobe this year, Lebron shut down Kobe at the end of games.

tombattor wrote:At this point, by that same logic, you can make an argument that Lebron should be a first-team all defender because when he wants to he can pretty much lock down any single player with his amazing combination of power, size, and speed. In his matchups against Kobe this year, Lebron shut down Kobe at the end of games.

You're right, but it also would work hand-in-hand that, let's say for a stretch of 2 or 3 months to open up the season next year, if LeBron focuses on defense he likely would get voted all-team first NBA defense.

National sportswriters form an opinion and rarely sway from that. Kobe showed defensive flashes earlier in his career and when he does it in nationally televisied games, it re-inforces the memories of the guys who vote on this stuff. Payton, as "the glove," was getting by for years on that.

spf211 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
You're right, but it also would work hand-in-hand that, let's say for a stretch of 2 or 3 months to open up the season next year, if LeBron focuses on defense he likely would get voted all-team first NBA defense.

National sportswriters form an opinion and rarely sway from that. Kobe showed defensive flashes earlier in his career and when he does it in nationally televisied games, it re-inforces the memories of the guys who vote on this stuff. Payton, as "the glove," was getting by for years on that.

Yup! You're right on the money.

spf211 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You're right, but it also would work hand-in-hand that, let's say for a stretch of 2 or 3 months to open up the season next year, if LeBron focuses on defense he likely would get voted all-team first NBA defense.

National sportswriters form an opinion and rarely sway from that. Kobe showed defensive flashes earlier in his career and when he does it in nationally televisied games, it re-inforces the memories of the guys who vote on this stuff. Payton, as "the glove," was getting by for years on that.

Just like Bruce Bowen. I always thought he was an overrated defender... more of a hacker than anything else. He can't guard anyone anymore, but he is still considered an elite defender.

Nah, Kobe is an underrated defender, if anything. The reason he only tends to play great defense when the game is on the line is by design. Like every single other coach in the NBA with one dominant star, Jackson doesn't want Kobe taking cheap fouls early by going all out, or defending the other team's star player. If y'all remember, it was the same way with Pierce before this year.

captain_cheapseats wrote:Nah, Kobe is an underrated defender, if anything. The reason he only tends to play great defense when the game is on the line is by design. Like every single other coach in the NBA with one dominant star, Jackson doesn't want Kobe taking cheap fouls early by going all out, or defending the other team's star player. If y'all remember, it was the same way with Pierce before this year.

Yeah, but those all-NBA team awards are given based on performance and result, not based on potential. If that were the case, Lebron should win every single award, since he has the potential to pretty much do anything on the basketball court better than everyone else in the league.

captain_cheapseats wrote:Nah, Kobe is an underrated defender, if anything.

How can you be an underrated defender when you're First team All NBA Defense?

LucerneStDoggz wrote:How can you be an underrated defender when you're First team All NBA Defense?

Given that the consensus seems to be that he didn't deserve the award (while I think he did), that makes him underrated. And it's not just on here and other message boards; during game two JVG said Kobe didn't deserve to make the all defense 1st team.

tombattor wrote:Yeah, but those all-NBA team awards are given based on performance and result, not based on potential. If that were the case, Lebron should win every single award, since he has the potential to pretty much do anything on the basketball court better than everyone else in the league.

I'm not saying Kobe has the potential to be a great defender, I'm saying he is a great defender. My point is that you can't penalize him for not playing aggressive lock-down defense on the other team's star player from minute one when that's not his choice. It's not Kobe deciding that he should defend Allen instead of Pierce early in the game, it's Jackson.

As for the Lebron comparison, I'm not sure it fits. Lebron occasionally plays great defense now, and certainly has the potential to be a great defender someday with his unique blend of physical skills. But the difference is that when crunch time rolls around, Kobe plays great defense every single time, game in and game out. It's not just that he could play great defense, it's that he does whenever he's asked. I'm not sure you can say the same of Lebron.

i agree, kobe is an overrated defender

Maybe it's Ray Allen most under rated offensive player of all time?

All I know is LeBron played a hell of a lot more D against the Celtics than Kobe has, and he has to carry his team even more than Kobe does. Maybe it is partly because the refs favor LeBron more than Kobe, from what I've seen it sure seems that way, but I don't think it is the whole story, I think LeBron is just more commited to dominating both ends of the floor. I know LeBron is a much better leader at a much younger age though, he's a team first kind of guy.

cisco wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Just like Bruce Bowen. I always thought he was an overrated defender... more of a hacker than anything else. He can't guard anyone anymore, but he is still considered an elite defender.

I was going to make the exact same comment. I can't believe Bowen is still a starter, it makes me want to throw up.

More of an inconsistent defender than a overrated

The most overrated defender of all time is bruce bowen. I can't stand listen to people go on and on, about what a great defender he is. I just don't see it. They talk about him as though he is Hakeem Olajuwon.