Talk is that Powe has become "legendary"

boykins_2 · Post #1 » by **boykins_2** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:04 pm

The country is going ballistic over him. He is on top of google searches.
What he did in that game can't be understated.
Doc has to play him now, through out the series or he'll be second guessed.

Not to pat myself on the back but I strongly backed this guy last year here on the forum.
I practically "discovered" him. lol

dee browns pumps · Post #2 » by **dee browns pumps** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:06 pm

Buckets

Post #3 » by **UGA Hayes** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:09 pm

The guy did have a PER over 20 this year. I know he makes defensive mistakes but I think we need to suck it up and play him anyway.

Bad-Thoma · Post #4 » by **Bad-Thoma** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:12 pm

I was wondering where he was at times against Cle and Det, but he matches up much better against the Laker bench, they just aren't all that big.

Gant · Post #5 » by **Gant** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:13 pm

Leon's performance reminded me of Big Baby's finest moment in what was the biggest game of the regular season- that road game in Detroit. Baby scored about 17 points in the fourth quarter and that contest set the tone for the rest of the way. The Celtics were never again challenged for best record.

You know Leon will be getting attention from everybody tonight.

boykins_2 · Post #6 » by **boykins_2** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:14 pm

UGA Hayes wrote:The guy did have a PER over 20 this year. I know he makes defensive mistakes but I think we need to suck it up and play him anyway.

According to Rivers that's why he's always on the bench is because his team defensive play was lacking; even though he plays great individual defence. Because of that Scal was always ahead of him.

tombattor · Post #7 » by **tombattor** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:22 pm

boykins_2 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
According to Rivers that's why he's always on the bench is because his team defensive play was lacking; even though he plays great individual defence. Because of that Scal was always ahead of him.

Excuses. Excuses.

Post #8 » by **sully00** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:37 pm

Leon has an oppponents PER of 19.6 and a +/- net of -5.3. That opp Per is the 3rd worst on the team behind on Pollard and Cassell. And I don't think the issues are mistakes though he can be shaky in the team concept he just can't guard guys a half foot taller than him.

It is a fact not an excuse. Leon is kind of like the Earl Boykins of Power Forwards. Ride him for what he is worth but he is who is and you have to treat him that way.

tombattor · Post #9 » by **tombattor** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:43 pm

sully00 wrote:Leon has an oppponents PER of 19.6 and a +/- net of -5.3. That opp Per is the 3rd worst on the team behind on Pollard and Cassell. And I don't think the issues are mistakes though he can be shaky in the team concept he just can't guard guys a half foot taller than him.

It is a fact not an excuse. Leon is kind of like the Earl Boykins of Power Forwards. Ride him for what he is worth but he is who is and you have to treat him that way.

Your point is well taken and thanks for the statistical evidence.

I'm just wondering how he was behind Scalabrine. If Scal was so good on team defense, where is he now? I can understand Powe getting fluctuating minutes based on his inconsistent performance, but he was collecting DNPs like it's going out of style for the first half of the season.

TommyPoints · Post #10 » by **TommyPoints** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:47 pm

I love Powe and think Danny did great picking him. I think the Lakers played some horrible D and that helped too though. Lakers fans can whine about the foul calls all they want, but they just played lazy, bad defense.

BeanTownBrawler · Post #11 » by **BeanTownBrawler** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:52 pm

billFromBoston is the guy that was really ahead of the curve on Leon Powe. Liked him as soon as we drafted him

daveisceltics · Post #12 » by **daveisceltics** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:53 pm

Ainge does so good in the draft.
I can't wait to see what diamonds in the ruff he gets at the end of the 1st and 2nd round this year.

Post #13 » by **sully00** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:06 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Your point is well taken and thanks for the statistical evidence.

I'm just wondering how he was behind Scalabrine. If Scal was so good on team defense, where is he now? I can understand Powe getting fluctuating minutes based on his inconsistent performance, but he was collecting DNPs like it's going out of style for the first half of the season.

I think that Scal is good at defense because he just flat out does exactly what he supposed to do. It isn't great but it is effective. That said his offense is non existent. PJ Brown does the same type of things defensively and can actually score and rebound.

That I think is what impacted Powe's mins early on. Much like Gerald Green here before him when he has lapses defensively he doesn't just impact the man he is covering he is blowing the rotation and killing the team defense. You just can't do that and playing winning basketball. I have seen less and less of that from Leon as the season went on.

The really great thing about Leon as an offensive player, in contrast to say a guy like Ryan Gomes, is that you can put him on the court and if he has it against a guy you will know it in a hurry and if he doesn't you can go a different way. Ryan needs mins and wants to kind of feel his way into the game.

boykins_2 · Post #14 » by **boykins_2** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:13 pm

sully00 wrote:Leon has an oppponents PER of 19.6 and a +/- net of -5.3. That opp Per is the 3rd worst on the team behind on Pollard and Cassell. And I don't think the issues are mistakes though he can be shaky in the team concept he just can't guard guys a half foot taller than him.

It is a fact not an excuse. Leon is kind of like the Earl Boykins of Power Forwards. Ride him for what he is worth but he is who is and you have to treat him that way.

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Your point is well taken and thanks for the statistical evidence.

I'm just wondering how he was behind Scalabrine. If Scal was so good on team defense, where is he now? I can understand Powe getting fluctuating minutes based on his inconsistent performance, but he was collecting DNPs like it's going out of style for the first half of the season.

Powe's personal "drive" was to strong to keep glued to the bench. The empirical evidence just kept on piling up, you couldn't continue to keep him on the bench. Tom T was in Rivers ear to keep him glued to the bench no matter how productive he was on the court. They wanted Scal to play, for that reason alone, Scal was better at team defence.

Powe shouldn't be guarding the other teams center all the time. That's where the height discrepancy mostly comes in. The guy can guard small fowards. Your reasons for ignoring him for his height are dumb.

By the way rebounding the ball is considered great team defence.
Just not in the dogmatic way thinking.

Something that Powe does a lot of and likes to do.

TheSheriff · Post #15 » by **TheSheriff** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:19 pm

Powe is really a four, but is forced to play the five because you aren't going to bench KG, and KG doesn't really play the five either. However he matches up great against the smaller lakers front court that doesn't have a true center either. He should have played more against the Pistons because he can guard Ben Wallace.

Post #16 » by **sully00** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:45 pm

daveisceltics wrote:Ainge does so good in the draft.
I can't wait to see what diamonds in the ruff he gets at the end of the 1st and 2nd round this year.

\

This is one sense overrated and in another a credit to Ainge. It isn't that he has an eye for talent that is superior to others. It is that Ainge is willing to use picks especially, first round picks on guys who will not be stars, and may not even be starters. That he will use money and roster spots to develop role players. Most teams will not do this for instance the Bulls never did this under Phil Jackson, they would sign veteran players and didn['t have more than a handful of draft picks under Phil. In contrast this has always been the way the Lakers developed their bench.

It sounds great in theory but watching guys you spend 4 years of time and money developing walk away can make you realize why teams would rather go with veteran bargains use their roster for depth. One financial advantage to what Ainge does is that young guys on rookie deals have more trade value than 7 and 8 year vets on 5 year deals and no upside. But that is why he seems to live on 6'4" SGs and 6'8" PFs.

Post #17 » by **UGA Hayes** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:49 pm

sully00 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

\

This is one sense overrated and in another a credit to Ainge. It isn't that he has an eye for talent that is superior to others. It is that Ainge is willing to use picks especially, first round picks on guys who will not be stars, and may not even be starters. That he will use money and roster spots to develop role players. Most teams will not do this for instance the Bulls never did this under Phil Jackson, they would sign veteran players and didn['t have more than a handful of draft picks under Phil. In contrast this has always been the way the Lakers developed their bench.

It sounds great in theory but watching guys you spend 4 years of time and money developing walk away can make you realize why teams would rather go with veteran bargains use their roster for depth. One financial advantage to what Ainge does is that young guys on rookie deals have more trade value than 7 and 8 year vets on 5 year deals and no upside. But that is why he seems to live on 6'4" SGs and 6'8" PFs.

I agree. It isn't just that we pick guys. We play them no matter what. We have had some guys who couldn't cut it who got big minutes, but I think at the end of the day you have to give players a chance and at the very least tried to build their trade values. Even bad players can find a nitch and before you know everyone is applauding you Jacque Vaghn acquisition

Rondo_Fan · Post #18 » by **Rondo_Fan** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 pm

I have a friend who watched Powe at Cal and told me, "Keep your eye on this guy. He's going to play great for you guys." So I was psyched when we drafted him, even though I didn't know anything about him.

He did so well the other night because he is the anti-L.A. He is a tough guy who loves to bang in the paint. You don't have to convince Leon to play around the rim. It's practically impossible to move him out of there.

Falstaff · Post #19 » by **Falstaff** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:19 pm

Do you mean Rasheed Wallace, or do you mean against the Cavs? Ben Wallace doesn't play for Detroit.

tombattor · Post #20 » by **tombattor** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:30 pm

sully00 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
This is one sense overrated and in another a credit to Ainge. It isn't that he has an eye for talent that is superior to others. It is that Ainge is willing to use picks especially, first round picks on guys who will not be stars, and may not even be starters. That he will use money and roster spots to develop role players. Most teams will not do this for instance the Bulls never did this under Phil Jackson, they would sign veteran players and didn['t have more than a handful of draft picks under Phil. In contrast this has always been the way the Lakers developed their bench.

It sounds great in theory but watching guys you spend 4 years of time and money developing walk away can make you realize why teams would rather go with veteran bargains use their roster for depth. One financial advantage to what Ainge does is that young guys on rookie deals have more trade value than 7 and 8 year vets on 5 year deals and no upside. But that is why he seems to live on 6'4" SGs and 6'8" PFs.

That's a good point. I think too many GMs go for the homerun picks, going for "upside" and "potential." Where as guys like Gomes or Powe, who were productive in college, but maybe didn't have the ideal athleticism or height. These guys may never be stars, but they are also less likely to be a bust.