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I was watching the media session yesterday and a reporter asked Perk what Rondo brings to the table, and I paraphrase:

Perk: "Rondo gets everybody in their spots and gets us in the offense quickly. Sometimes he will overrule Doc and call his own play because he sees things differently out there; not all the time though. When Eddie is playing, we don't get into our offense until like, 10 or 11 seconds left on the shot clock because he has trouble bringing the ball up."

So for everyone bashing Doc about the Sam/Eddie situation, the simple solution is just not playing Eddie over Sam. The situation is much more complex than that. The problem from the get was Danny not taking care of the backup PG in the beginning of the season.

Its sort of a "lesser of the two evils" situation when you play Eddie or Sam.

Eddie knows his role and plays with energy. But he has trouble bringing the ball up.

Sam gets us into our offense quickly but you can't teach an old dog new tricks and Sam has always been a shoot first/pass second PG. Once again, thats why Sam has been traded like 18 times in his career.

And here are 82games plus/minus/roland rating stats for the Cs in the playoffs (Cassell and House have the exact same ratings):

Production On Court/Off Court Roland
Player Min Own Opp Net On Off Net Rating
Garnett 79% 25.5 13.5 +12.0 +8.4 -9.9 +18.4 +13.3
Perkins 54% 14.4 14.0 +0.4 +10.3 -2.2 +12.5 +5.9
Pierce 79% 19.0 14.5 +4.5 +5.8 +0.4 +5.4 +4.7
R.Allen 78% 14.2 13.3 +0.9 +8.4 -9.0 +17.4 +4.5
Rondo 71% 16.8 15.6 +1.2 +4.6 +4.6 -0.0 +0.8
House 9% 7.4 9.3 -1.9 +5.8 +4.5 +1.3 -1.6
Cassell 22% 7.2 9.6 -2.4 +5.6 +4.4 +1.2 -1.6
Powe 23% 16.5 19.1 -2.5 +2.6 +5.2 -2.6 -2.6
Posey 44% 14.3 17.0 -2.7 -3.5 +11.0 -14.6 -7.9
Davis 12% 8.7 17.9 -9.2 -17.9 +7.6 -25.6 -11.1
Brown 25% 9.7 20.7 -11.0 -6.1 +8.3 -14.4 -11.9
T.Allen 4% 6.5 26.0 -19.6 -15.6 +5.6 -21.2 -19.6

I like eddie house for his Shooting and Hustle. Thats pretty much it.

Nice try.

But missing a pull up 3 with 22 seconds left on the shot clock and missing an open shot within the frame of offense with the ball moving around both give you 0-1 in FG. But the difference between the 2 is immeasurable.

What good does getting into offense early do, when no one else touches the ball and everyone stands around while watching Cassell tries to take his guy and eventually just launches a shot whether he's open or not.

Rondo is a pure point
House and Cassell are not

houses ability to hit the 3 as a reserve is so much more deadly than setting the offense as quickly as rondo IMO

eddie is an amazing shooter and cassell can be (scorer)
steve kerr or craig hodges werent pure points and neither was great at setting the offense
but both were huge for the bulls

eddie was a brilliant signing by ainge

tombattor wrote:Nice try.

But missing a pull up 3 with 22 seconds left on the shot clock and missing an open shot within the frame of offense with the ball moving around both give you 0-1 in FG. But the difference between the 2 is immeasurable.

What good does getting into offense early do, when no one else touches the ball and everyone stands around while watching Cassell tries to take his guy and eventually just launches a shot whether he's open or not.

That's not the point....to be right or wrong.....Perk is not on a side or not...it's a fact in the decision process why Eddie has been set back in the rotation at the point.......

That's why the suggestion that I made before the series started of a Ray Paul Posey KG Perk lineup would maybe work better than using either house or cassell. Van Gundy said the same thing last night. Ray said that he wanted to play Point in his introductory press conference but hasn't gotten the shot. Don't know if it's a great idea to do it now, but it might be better than the alternative.

Kefa461 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
That's not the point....to be right or wrong.....Perk is not on a side or not...it's a fact in the decision process why Eddie has been set back in the rotation at the point.......

Um, it is. Perk's quote said nothing about Eddie's game in comparison to Sam's. He just talked about the difference between Eddie and Rondo. Gonzo took that and gave some stats about how Eddie and Sam have been the same.

I'm saying they are not. Sam is atrocious. Eddie hasn't been all that good either, but exponentially better than Sam. In fact, I've contributed more to this team's success by sitting at home watching tv with my Paul Pierce jersey on than Sam has.

Let's not make it out like Sam is a wizard ball handler. he has had just as much trouble as Eddie bringing the ball up. Also those statistic indicate despite Eddie have a slight EDGE Sam has played more then twice as much. Also the regular season stats have House far ahead..

Pete

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Um, it is. Perk's quote said nothing about Eddie's game in comparison to Sam's. He just talked about the difference between Eddie and Rondo. Gonzo took that and gave some stats about how Eddie and Sam have been the same.

I'm saying they are not. Sam is atrocious. Eddie hasn't been all that good either, but exponentially better than Sam. In fact, I've contributed more to this team's success by sitting at home watching tv with my Paul Pierce jersey on than Sam has.

But Tom....Thats why they went and got Sam because Eddie was not getting the job done....they needed someone to be the point Eddie was not. Eddie is a shooting guard. You might be right, but Eddie is not the point
and the die has been cast and Sam might be the option they go with. Eddie had all season to show he could run the point and failed.....

The Bulls had Pippen, who was a lot better at getting the ball upcourt than any current Celtic not named Rondo.

The Cs also don't seem to have spent a lot of time practicing passing their way out of a press.

perkins is obviously talking about cassell

he has gotten the most minutes in the playoffs as the backup point guard

aside from his extended minutes in 1 or 2 cleveland games and game 3, house has barley played any significant minutes in the playoffs

and the sample size of his playing time isn't large enough to draw any conclusions based off of statistics

you can bring in stats all you want, but all you have to do is watch the game to see that perkins is clearly reffering to sam cassell. It was when house came in for rondo last game that we went ont he 15-3 run and took leads of 7 in the 3rd and 5 in the 4th

Datruth345 wrote:perkins is obviously talking about cassell

We have bingo. Here's the actual quote, from the end of http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball ... y_picture/

"We have 18-20 seconds to start our offense when he's in, and 8-10 seconds when he's out," said Perkins. "When he is out of the game, we don't have no kind of offensive rhythm. And he pressures the ball coming upcourt and that gets everyone ready. He gets the ball to [Garnett and Pierce] and they get a lot of easy shots because of his dribble penetration."

The other part the OP missed in that quote is that he was talking about offense and defense alike.

The later is probably why Doc is considering putting Tony in that role. Well, that and switching him onto Kobe for defense.

It is a lesser of the two evils type thing here, we only have 1 true point guard on this roster.

i dont get why we jus dont play house more. we need his shooting out there so KG can go to work w/o constant double teams. just have PP bring the ball up the floor. he can beat radmanovic up court. they wont put vujacic or fisher or farmar on him if he brings the ball up b/c if they do, he'll jus go all the way to the hole (at least he should). jus have eddie in there & let PP or even KG bring the ball up.

we're gonna have to win this series & look at it like a chess match. we're gonna have to get ourselves into the right match ups. when KG has odom on him, get him the ball down low. when PP has kobe on him, get him on the block. when pp has rad on him, let him drive. when ray has fish on him, let him do w/e & he'll score at will against fisher. & WHEN PERK HAS ODOM, LET HIM BANG DOWN LOW, he can outmuscle odom down low & score on him.

kmgarnett21 wrote:just have PP bring the ball up the floor. he can beat radmanovic up court. they wont put vujacic or fisher or farmar on him if he brings the ball up b/c

Well, last game he was too tired even to play his usual roles on offense and defense.

And energy aside (for either of them) -- if Kobe pressed him, it would be problematic.

Even so -- pressing Pierce on the dribble can be a real issue, since he's pretty good (I understate) at getting all the way to the rim.

Perk's just repeating stuff that Doc said a long time ago.

Don't make out like it's an original idea.

It's true, but it was Doc who said it first.

Yep, Perk actually doesn't have any original thoughts in TV interviews, he just repeats what Doc has said or told him in the past.

Kefa461 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



But Tom....Thats why they went and got Sam because Eddie was not getting the job done....they needed someone to be the point Eddie was not. Eddie is a shooting guard. You might be right, but Eddie is not the point
and the die has been cast and Sam might be the option they go with. Eddie had all season to show he could run the point and failed.....

I wanted Sam NOT primarily because of Eddie's shortcomings. Rather, I wanted Sam because we'd have been COOKED if Rondo got injured and went down for the season. I didn't like the prospect of an Eddie/Tony PG platoon. But the way Sam's been playing, an Eddie/Sam combo doesn't interest me very much. I sure hope Rondo's ankle is OK.

is anyone denying that rondo is better than house?

but rondo can't play 48 minutes a game and he's a liability when he's out there