The Cs are on record as wanting a 17+ man roster

[Fencer reregistered]

The Cs have mentioned every FA except Pollard by name as a guy they want back. That's 14.
They drafted one guy (Giddens) who they say will compete for minutes this year.
They've said they want a couple of new FAs.

Even if they stash Walker overseas -- and they did say that they'd draft certain guys only if they agreed to go overseas, with the Cs helping them find jobs, although I'm not sure what's in it for a second round pick to agree to such a deal -- that's 17+ guys.

Now, they've also said they don't expect PJ back. But that still leaves us over 15. So it's safe to say that the Cs won't get EVERYTHING they're on record as wanting ...

[Rocky5000]

I'm pretty sure that Cassell, Pollard, and Brown will not be back. If we want to sign more than 1 free agent, one of House, Tony, or Posey will have to leave though.

9 Signed------
Rondo
Allen
Pierce
Garnett
Perkins
Scalabrine(Inactive)
Powe
Davis
Pruitt

3 Probable FA to be resigned----
Posey
Allen
House

3 Probable FA to not be resigned---
Cassell
Pollard
Brown

2 Draft picks to be signed
Giddens
Walker (D-league)

1 Draft pick to leave overseas (doesn't count against Roster)
Erdin


Leaves Room for 1 FA, most likely a center.

[Fencer reregistered]

I'm pretty sure that Cassell, Pollard, and Brown will not be back. If we want to sign more than 1 free agent, one of House, Tony, or Posey will have to leave though.

They say they want Cassell back. He wants to come back. Now, that could be finessed by offering him a non-guaranteed deal, but right now it's an issue.

If Cassell doesn't come back, there's either a tradeoff between House and a "true PC" vet, or an additional roster crunch.

No way IMO that both Brown and Pollard leave without another "true center" replacing them.

[GWVan]

I think we do a two for one or a three for one with some of our older, past their prime players like Ray and Kevin, to get some prospects and build for the future

[Fencer reregistered]

From the Post Draft Depth Chart thread, my take on how it plays out:

The future is now. Tony is clearly worth a roster spot over Walker (who they may try to stash overseas) or even Giddens (who will however surely get one too). And a roster slot is the only scarce resource he takes up.

Sam or (my current preference) another vet PG is needed too.

So we have 5-6 wing players -- Pierce, Allen, Posey, Allen, Giddens, maybe Walker
And we have 3-4 point/small guards -- Rondo, Pruitt, Sam/other vet, House

We have four returning PFs and one returning center, plus one center we want back who is leaning to retirement. PJ Brown or a replacement is the "16th" guy.

So only one guy has to fall off the list for the numbers to work. For every additional guy who falls off somehow, a new one can be added -- but how will he be paid?

So my current projection is that we go a few days into FA seeing if we can make a great get with the full MLE. If we can, we ask Posey to take a hometown discount, and give him a compelling reason for doing so. If not, we give him the MLE, and otherwise only acquire vets on the cheap.

[Celtics_Champs]

What are they supposed to say? These guys are long tenured vets too. They are not going to say, "We don't want cassell" "Brown will not be back" "Pollard will be no where near this team" ???

[Fencer reregistered]

What are they supposed to say? These guys are long tenured vets too. They are not going to say, "We don't want cassell" "Brown will not be back" "Pollard will be no where near this team" ???

You're spot-on. Actually, I think the Doc quote is weak -- it amounts "I love all my guys". But Wyc's commitment to paying all the bucks Danny wants him to is strong. From http://bostonherald.com/sports/basketba ... position=2

No matter who the C’s ultimately picked last night, Doc Rivers admitted that the team faced a much larger goal - signing impending free agents James Posey, Eddie House, P.J. Brown, Sam Cassell and Tony Allen.

“We would like to bring our whole team back,” Rivers said. “Pose we love. With P.J. we just don’t know. I talked to him right after the season and he just didn’t know. But I told him that he had to go home and think about it. I would like to have P.J. back - our goal is to bring everyone back - but he’s going to need some time.

“Sam just didn’t have long enough (to learn the system), but we want him back, too,” Rivers added. “All of these are guys we have to talk to, but we do have to try and pay all of these other guys off.

“I’d be happy with trying to bring them all back. The problem will be trying to do it.”

Though saving money is always an issue, the team appears to be resigned to paying a heavy luxury tax fee for the decision to continue fielding this team.

“Whatever it takes,” managing partner Wyc Grousbeck said of the luxury tax issue.

[GregB]

I hope we can resign TA, House, and Posey. Using TAs bird rights, give house his 20 percent raise and a 2yr deal with a 3rd year team option. If Posey really wants to win a championship with us. He will most likely take the 20 percent deal for 3 years with an option in year 4. We could use the Full MLE on Posey. But then we would only have the LLE or vet min to sign a backup C.

The roster could be:

Rondo/ House / Pruitt ( Pruitt could leapfrog House for backup duty)
R. Allen /T. Allen / J.R. Giddens (TA could be gone, Saving $ Creating an extra roster spot for late FA)
Pierce/ Posey / Walker ( Let Walker progress down in NBDL most of the year)
Garnett / Powe / Scalabrine ( Waive that towel scal )
Perkins/ Baby / FA ( FA could really be backup. But I still expect KG to play some C opening min for
Powe and Big Baby.)

[Fencer reregistered]

I hope we can resign TA, House, and Posey. Using TAs bird rights, give house his 20 percent raise and a 2yr deal with a 3rd year team option. If Posey really wants to win a championship with us. He will most likely take the 20 percent deal for 3 years with an option in year 4. We could use the Full MLE on Posey. But then we would only have the LLE or vet min to sign a backup C.

The roster could be:

Rondo/ House / Pruitt ( Pruitt could leapfrog House for backup duty)
R. Allen /T. Allen / J.R. Giddens (TA could be gone, Saving $ Creating an extra roster spot for late FA)
Pierce/ Posey / Walker ( Let Walker progress down in NBDL most of the year)
Garnett / Powe / Scalabrine ( Waive that towel scal )
Perkins/ Baby / FA ( FA could really be backup. But I still expect KG to play some C opening min for
Powe and Big Baby.)

That would work very nicely IF Pruitt is ready to play. But it might not make the best use of the potential to attract vets who want to win a ring.

If Walker can be stashed overseas, another spot opens up for vet depth.

[P2]

There is now freaking way on earth Cassell is back. Brown will likely retire, so we could re-sgin Posey, House, Tony and Pollard, which would put us at exactly 15. But I don't think either Tony or Pollard will be back.

[canman1971]

I have a hard time thinking Ainge goes into the season with 15 guys. That gives him no flexibility. I say at most it is 14, but more likely 13.

[Fencer reregistered]

I have a hard time thinking Ainge goes into the season with 15 guys. That gives him no flexibility. I say at most it is 14, but more likely 13.

Given the guys we have to fill the 15 slots, I wouldn't be so sure.

[Jammer]

Doc is doing the politically correct action.

It's smart and savvy.

Of course, everyone won't be back.

The significant statement by Wyc is he will pay what's necessary to bring the players back.

Since with draft picks (the #60 is still under contract in Turkey), they have 17 players, and they have stated that they would like to add a free agent.

So, if you read between the lines, and fill out the spots in order of need:

Position ******** Starter ************* Backup ********* Insurance ******** Unnecessary

** SF ************ Pierce *************** Posey ************ Walker

(solution: sign Posey for full mid-level minus amount required for 3 year lockup for Walker, give Posey 4 year contract for like $5.2 Mil, $5.6 Mil, $6.0 Mil, $6.0 Mil; sign Walker for 3 years.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
** SG *********** R. Allen ************* Giddens ********* Tony Allen

Sign first round pick and sign Tony Allen to 2 year deal.
______________________________________________________________________________________________

** PG ************ Rondo ************** House ********* Tyronn Lue ******* Pruitt, Cassell

Sign House for 20% raise (he has great chemistry and a better shot than Lue), and give House 2 more years with 8% raises ($1.8 Mil, $1.94 Mil, $2.099 Mil)

Sign Tyronn Lue for LLE

Trade Pruitt before August, hand Coach Cassell a sport coat and whistle
______________________________________________________________________________________________
** PF ********** Garnett ********** Posey *********** Powe ************** Scalabrine

ditch Scalabrine any place with cap room or a trade exception, ask for a six pack of Bud in return (or a 2nd round pick)
______________________________________________________________________________________________

** C ********** Perkins ********** Pollard ********** Davis

Sign Pollard for veteran minimum, of which the league will pay around $430k, and the Celtics will only pay about $770k
______________________________________________________________________________________________

With only 15 spots,

PJ sounds like he will sit home until February (again), skipping training camp, the workouts before camp, and the first 45 games. Whether he will come out of retirement again sounds like a definate maybe, if requested.

There is no spot for Cassell, or Pruitt, if everyone else is brought back, signed, and one free agent (Tyronn Lue is willing to come) is signed.

Scalabrine occupies a roster spot, but if they can dump him, it's easier to assimilate PJ Brown should the team want to give PJ the call after NEW Year's.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
That's all folks.

-- Jammer

[Fencer reregistered]

BillFromBoston says in another thread that the Cs will send Walker overseas. Assuming he's right in that, that Walker plays along, and so on, the base case roster is now:

PG (3) Rondo/vet/Pruitt
Combo guard (1) House
SG/SF (5) Pierce/R. Allen/Posey/T. Allen/Giddens
PF (4) Garnett/Powe/Davis/Scalabrine
C (2) Perkins/vet

The most likely base-case inactives are Giddens/Tony Allen, Scalabrine, and a small guard.

[GuyClinch]

This is a crazy thread.

We only have SEVEN guys who are absolutley on the team next year.

Pierce, Rondo, KG, JR, Perkins, RA, Powe

That's IT people. Don't believe the hype. This team could be SIGNIFICANTLY different then last year. Free agents Posey, House, TA are all up in the air. Second round picks Pruitt, BBD probably need to show something to remain with the team. The underperforming Vets Cassell and Pollard are most likely gone. PJ Brown has said he will retire. Scalabrine will get traded for nearly anything..

Danny Ainge has shown a willingness to turn his roster over. We have had SEVERAL near complete roster changes in the years he has been GM. I doubt that will stop. Even favorites like Posey and House were taken when other teams were down on them. There is no telling what danny will do.

Personally I think Bill Walker makes the roster and then Danny fills the rest of the spots with the best vets available. Those guys might not be Posey and House.. I bet their asking price has gone up.. It might be Tyrone Lue and Josh Childress instead..who knows.

Pete

[ParticleMan]

I can't imagine Ainge will significantly turn over a roster that just won the title. That's a lot different from turning over a roster that won 24 games. I doubt we're looking to trade away our guys under contract unless it's a Godfather deal.

Of the FA guys tho, I think the only guys who will be seriously pursued are Posey and House. Posey I'd say there's a good chance he will be back. He will ask for the full MLE, we'll offer somewhat below, we'll settle slightly below. Of course he could get the full MLE elsewhere but I think he likes it here. House, not so sure. He probably sees the writing on the wall, with Pruitt in waiting and how they brought in Cassell to take over his job late in the season. He beat out Cassell, but the message is that the C's aren't happy with him as the backup PG, so he'll probably shop his services. I'm sure we'll offer him a similar contract as last year, maybe for 2 years, but that's it.

Tony, I can't see coming back. He will get better offers elsewhere. There's a decent market for a SG with his talent level, for all his warts. Pollard is done. PJ is done (by his own choice). Cassell is the most interesting decision, with everyone saying lubby dubby things, but I'd be shocked if the C's offer him anything of significance. He'll probably get insulted and walk away. At least I hope so.

So I don't think we have a roster space problem. We slot in JR to take Tony's role. Bill Walker isn't going overseas, that's silly, he can just go to the NBDL instead and receive coaching from C's coaches instead of some random dude speaking a foreign language. Pruitt might bounce a bit between the bigs and the minors. Other than that I don't see any NBDL candidates. Giddens is a force, just you guys watch. He will be a solid part of our 9-man rotation by year's end.

[Fencer reregistered]

We only have SEVEN guys who are absolutley on the team next year.

Assuming that's right, it's relevance is -- what?

A LOT of guys earned playing time last year. All would come back for the right price except probably Brown and maybe House. The Cs seem able to meet everybody's price except maybe House's.

Now, how many of those positions do the Cs have the resources to upgrade AT ONCE? Do you think there's a better MLE option than Posey? I don't. So he's a great bet to stay. The number of new FAs who get more than $2 million/year will most likely be either 0 or 1. How many roster spots can be upgraded at short money? Cassell's? Probably. Brown's? Probably not, but he has to be replaced anyway if he retires. Davis's? That's already looking pretty questionable. Pruitt's? Sure.

But Davis, Pruitt, and Giddens are assets, who in all likelihood will be given next season to (continue to) develop.

So this is not, as you so rudely put it, a "crazy" thread.

[GuyClinch]

Assuming that's right, it's relevance is -- what?

That there is no roster crunch. Which is the basis of this thread. It's directly relevant to this thread. <g>

A LOT of guys earned playing time last year. All would come back for the right price except probably Brown and maybe House. The Cs seem able to meet everybody's price except maybe House's.

Really? And you know this because we are past July 1st and into the negotating period for FA? Oh snap we aren't.

Now, how many of those positions do the Cs have the resources to upgrade AT ONCE? Do you think there's a better MLE option than Posey? I don't. So he's a great bet to stay.

Who said anything about 'upgrading' it can be about finding suitable replacement at the same prices we paid last year. The Lakers are going to go after Posey. What if he gets priced out of our range? It's quite possible that the C's ARE NOT willing to blow the whole MLE on Posey.

But Davis, Pruitt, and Giddens are assets, who in all likelihood will be given next season to (continue to) develop.

Giddens obviously as a first rounder. But Davis and Pruitt - it depends on the real feelings of management. Danny Ainge wouldn't hesitate to dump these guys and sign someone different if he was down on them.

With Davis weight gain DURING the season I wouldn't be surprised if something bad happened to him. I don't think Mormon's take kindly to sloth. Utah is the healthiest state in the union..

I think most of our guys will come back but I wouldn't be shocked by significant changes. I felt management was down on a bunch of guys like TA and Scabs by the end of the year.

Pete

[Jammer]

Everyone knew that the Celtics wanted to get longer at center, with PJ Brown probably sitting out until at least February.

I initially thought that Danny would trade or buy the Clippers second round pick, to get someone like DeAndre Jordan.

Now there is talk that the Celtics will call Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo to gauge their interest. That would certainly address getting longer in the middle, and both are better than Davis and Pollard.

The unforunate thing is that without a qualifying offer to Tony Allen, teams like Miami and the Nets can now go after him without fear of being matched. A multi-year deal around $3 million per year might be hard to turn down, if the Celtics only offer say 2 years at $1.8 million per.

House wants a multi-year contract, which for chemistry reasons, I don't see a problem with, although I can see why the Celtics will give a hard look at Tyronn Lue and Jason Williams with the LLE.

To screw around and not give Posey a 4 year deal at near the Max MLE (quite understandable after the cutesy game the Celts played last summer to split the MLE between Posey and House rather than give Posey the MLE and House the LLE), well, that would be foolish.

Posey is an essential defender and 3 point shooter the next two years, when the Celts will have a great chance to repeat.

Give the man a 4 year deal, you owe him $3 million from last season anyway.

[Jammer]

The other thing is that Pruitt and Davis may not have that much trade value.

Davis is an undersized center who must remain in top shape to have a chance. There are some teams, like Atlanta or Miami where he would fit, or New Orleans, who would likely have interest.

Pruitt should be of interest to the Clippers, Milwaukee, the Nets, and maybe Miami; who all need point guards.

Brian Scalabrine (who makes half of Brian Cardinal's ugly contract) would fit in Atlanta, Golden State, Memphis, Miami, Phoenix or the Knicks. Atlanta would be the best fit, but they don't have cap room after they resign the two Joshes, have 9 guys under contract, and only one bad contract they are looking to move (Speedy Claxon, 2 years at $5 million per).