Sign & Trade for Maggette ??

[Jammer]

Basically, I'm just wondering if there is a way to go higher than the MLE, if necessary,
in case Posey decided to join the Lakers, even though Kobe can opt out after one season.

Let's look at the Clippers depth chart, and their contract situations,

assuming Elton Brand signs for $70 Million/5 years and Baron Davis $65 Million/5 years.

Depth Chart

PG: Baron Davis / Brevin Knight / #55 pick Mike Taylor (traded 2009 2nd Round Pick For)

SG: Cutino Mobley / Eric Gordon

SF: Tim Thomas / Al Thornton / Marcus Williams

PF: Elton Brand / Nick Fazekas / Josh Powell (partially unguaranteed)

C: Chris Kaman / De Andre Jordan

That's 13 guys, with backup point guard probably the biggest need.

Now although the Clippers might not be wanting the following players from the Celtics,
there are other teams that could very well be under the cap like Golden State that would take a player or two from the Celtics. Let's do a hypothetical.

$3,206,897 Brian Scalabrine (to Golden State, will have cap room)
$ 711,517 Gabe Pruitt (to Golden State, will have cap room)

$ 711,517 Glen Davis (minimum contract player, can be traded to any team)

$2,000,000 Tony Allen Sign and Trade to Golden State

In a multi-team trade, if the Celtics were to Ship out Scal, Pruitt and Davis;
they could sign Maggette for up to $5887413.75 to start. That's probably more than the mid-level starting salary.

If Tony Allen were somehow included, then even if Tony started at $2,000,000;
then he could be signed for up to $8387413.75 to start.

The scenario without Tony is more plausible, since only the Clippers would have to agree to a S&T;
but the Celtics would probably net a few second round picks for Pruitt, Davis & Scal;
and since the Clippers have already traded their second round pick for next year;
their might be some incentive to S&T Maggette for say, 2 second round picks. It's better than nothing.

It's a reach; but the Celtics front office has been so creative in some ways, there may be a way to get Maggette without using the mid-level.

[grantlongforpresident]

Man, i wish we could just give Posey the full MLE for 4 years and be done with it. No way he turns that down.

If we somehow get Maggette i'll be overjoyed, but if we lose them both i've got my pitchfork ready, i hope Ainge doesn't mind someone in his yard torching his woodshed.

[Jammer]

Man, i wish we could just give Posey the full MLE for 4 years and be done with it. No way he turns that down.

If we somehow get Maggette i'll be overjoyed, but if we lose them both i've got my pitchfork ready, i hope Ainge doesn't mind someone in his yard torching his woodshed.

I, too, had initially said offer 4 years, with a holdback to extend Walker for a 3rd year, which I'm not even firm on.

It sounds like Posey got offered a 3 year deal, in the $4 million dollar range.

What we don't know is whether they placed a higher priority on Maggette or not. I'm starting to suspect that they have. Corey is a career 33% 3 point shooter, who jumped to 38% last season.

[MoBSTa]

I think your being a little hard on Danny and his woodshed.

[BillessuR6]

If Brand resigns with the clippers and they sign Davis they have to renounce Maggette so they have enough cap space for both. If they do that they can not use Maggette in a sign and trade since they renounced him, right?

[EdSkae]

Resign Posey give him 4 or 5 years full MLE whatever it takes. Forget Maggette I believe Giddens can give you scoring off the bench and he is a better more willing defender.

[Jammer]

If Brand resigns with the clippers and they sign Davis they have to renounce Maggette so they have enough cap space for both. If they do that they can not use Maggette in a sign and trade since they renounced him, right?

Yes, to clear the cap room to sign Baron Davis,

the Clips will have to renounce their rights to Shaun Livingston and Corey Maggette.

So, at that point, a sign and trade is out of the question.

But if the Davis signing is concurrent with a Maggette S&T,

where the Clips are not taking salary back from Maggette

(my example is a multi-team trade where Scal goes to one team,
Pruitt another, Glen Davis a third, Tony Allen a possible 4th);

like I said, as long as there is cap room. Golden State, Memphis, Philadelphia qualify, Charlotte too, probably, and maybe Seattle. Davis, however, can go to any team without having to take a player back since he is a minimum contract player.

So, you're correct, but my multi-team S&T has the S&T could be concurrent with the Davis signing.

Dumping a player to a team with cap room is like when Golden State shipped Jason Richardson and his $50 million contract to Charlotte for the #8 pick (Golden State even paid Charlotte $3 million cash to take that contract). But, Charlotte had cap room.

[jfs1000d]

Resign Posey give him 4 or 5 years full MLE whatever it takes. Forget Maggette I believe Giddens can give you scoring off the bench and he is a better more willing defender.

This is how you become a bad team. No way is posey worth a full MLE for 4 years,much less 5. I would give him full mle for a max of 2 years. I think the 3 years at $12 million is a fair deal. The guy averages 7.1 ppg. Yes, he is a killer in the playoffs, but he stil isn't worth $18-$24 million and also costing us players because we used up the mle on him.

We have to be ruthless. Eddie can be upgraded.Posey can't be overpaid. Let's do what;s in the best interests of the team.

[TheSheriff]

Resign Posey give him 4 or 5 years full MLE whatever it takes. Forget Maggette I believe Giddens can give you scoring off the bench and he is a better more willing defender.

This is how you become a bad team. No way is posey worth a full MLE for 4 years,much less 5. I would give him full mle for a max of 2 years. I think the 3 years at $12 million is a fair deal. The guy averages 7.1 ppg. Yes, he is a killer in the playoffs, but he stil isn't worth $18-$24 million and also costing us players because we used up the mle on him.

We have to be ruthless. Eddie can be upgraded.Posey can't be overpaid. Let's do what;s in the best interests of the team.

The MLE with 8% raises (the maximum allowed for a MLE) gives James 7.2 million in the fourth year and 7.7 million in the 5th. When Posey will be turning 36 and 37. That is how teams end up with must move contracts and owners get angry about the luxury tax. Right now the only bad contract on this team is Scal, which is hardly a back-breaker, and i am sure Wyc and Danny want to keep it that way.

[TommyPoints]

Resign Posey give him 4 or 5 years full MLE whatever it takes. Forget Maggette I believe Giddens can give you scoring off the bench and he is a better more willing defender.

This is how you become a bad team. No way is posey worth a full MLE for 4 years,much less 5. I would give him full mle for a max of 2 years. I think the 3 years at $12 million is a fair deal. The guy averages 7.1 ppg. Yes, he is a killer in the playoffs, but he stil isn't worth $18-$24 million and also costing us players because we used up the mle on him.

We have to be ruthless. Eddie can be upgraded.Posey can't be overpaid. Let's do what;s in the best interests of the team.

I totally agree. My only concern is that we end up missing out on the guys we like all together and the team is worse next season because of it. I trust our management enough where I'm not worrying much.

[TheCelticTruth]

I think as long as we are smart it will be hard to get worse. We would basically need to strike out entirely in free agency.

It seems like Maggette isn't going to end up with much more than the mid level exception, so I think we are right in the mix. Yes he could start in San Antonio, but if Posey is gone, Maggette would be able to play basically whenever PP or RA are on the bench as he can slide easily between the 2-3, more so than James. Also, the Spurs have winning appeal, but no one has that more than us right now. And Maggette has a previous relationship with Rivers. I wouldn't be surprised to see him here for the mid level, the Boston mystique is back.

If Maggette doesn't sign, maybe we up the offer a bit to Pose, but we cannot give the full exception to anyone who won't be fully worth it, and it's an overpayment to give Pose the whole thing. Players like Maggette or similar caliber are the only ones who can get the whole deal without hamstringing the team (i.e. starter or starter quality).

Remember, Pruitt will contribute, Powe and Davis will be better, I expect Rondo and Perk to be a lot better. So our bench and first five gets better in terms of those guys at least. And ssuming all goes well with Giddens, he seems like he could potentially be the biggest contributor we've seen as a rookie in a while.

[hiphop1]

Resign Posey give him 4 or 5 years full MLE whatever it takes. Forget Maggette I believe Giddens can give you scoring off the bench and he is a better more willing defender.

No way I want to be paying a 37 year old Posey 7.9mil. That is LUDICRIS.

[EdSkae]

Resign Posey give him 4 or 5 years full MLE whatever it takes. Forget Maggette I believe Giddens can give you scoring off the bench and he is a better more willing defender.

This is how you become a bad team. No way is posey worth a full MLE for 4 years,much less 5. I would give him full mle for a max of 2 years. I think the 3 years at $12 million is a fair deal. The guy averages 7.1 ppg. Yes, he is a killer in the playoffs, but he stil isn't worth $18-$24 million and also costing us players because we used up the mle on him.

We have to be ruthless. Eddie can be upgraded.Posey can't be overpaid. Let's do what;s in the best interests of the team.

I disagree because I believe keeping Posey gives the Celtics the best chance to repeat next year and the year after that. In my opinion if you are not making the moves that give you the best chance to win. Then you are wasting the money you are paying KG, PP, & Ray. Posey is versatile he is not the guy you low ball and sacrafice to protect your future. In my opinion if you want to be ruthless & look toward the future. After next year is the time to do that. Ray Allen and Scal will both be on expiring contracts and can be moved as expiring deals. Plus you also will most likely be able to move Posey. As an expiring contract in the last year of his deal when that time comes. So you are only paying him either 3 years on a 4 year contract or 4 years on a 5 year contract. In my opinion you become a bad team by sacraficing defense for offense. defense wins championships Posey can defend 4 positions better then Magette can defend 1 position. Business is buisness but on the court Posey is a we winning player. While Maggette is a me losing player. I also think JR Giddens and Bill Walker are both players who will be quality contributors to the Celtics future success. There is a chance either one of these guys could make the contribution Maggette would make next year. The Celtics do not currently have a player who can fill the contributions that Posey provides. In fact there is not a player currently available who can make those contributions.

[captain_cheapseats]

In my opinion you become a bad team by sacraficing defense for offense. defense wins championships . . .

To me that's always sounded like a logical fallacy perpetuated by coaches to convince their teams to play harder on defense, since a big portion of defensive success is based on effort. By definition the importance of the two has to be exactly the same.

IMO the best team is the one that provides the best combination of scoring, defense, and rebounding, which was the Celtics last year. We were the 11th best offense,* 2nd best defense,** and 4th best on the boards.*** I think we'd be equally successful with the 2nd best offense, 11th best defense, and remaining 4th on the boards. But even if you disagree with that, Maggette over Posey would likely improve the offense far more than it would hurt the defense. And that's assuming Maggette doesn't pull a Pierce (show he is actually a dominant defender when he wants to be) or a Ray Allen (show he is actually a better than average defender when he wants to be), which I think would be very likely given his incredible physical tools and the fact that Doc/Thib/KG have been able to get everyone to buy into the defensive concept thus far.

At the end of the day there is never an argument for keeping an aging role player, even a great role player like Posey, over a borderline all-star in his prime if they cost the same price.....there just isn't. All the arguments people make (defense, chemistry, etc.) could work in other contexts, but here the diffence in talent is just too overwhelming. Also, this is a team that has what Posey brings in spades (defnse, toughness, leadership), and lacks the things that Maggette would add (bench scoring/rebounding).

* Measured by total points. Though you could argue that we were actually better than 11th, given that we placed higher in team fg%. Then again the slow pace that hurts offensive stats should help the defensive figures, so I figure it all evens out.

** I could have sworn we were the best defense in the NBA, but when I looked it up on the link at the bottom of this post, it had us second behind the Pistons.

*** Measured by differential.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_ ... able1.html

[EdSkae]

In my opinion you become a bad team by sacraficing defense for offense. defense wins championships . . .

To me that's always sounded like a logical fallacy perpetuated by coaches to convince their teams to play harder on defense, since a big portion of defensive success is based on effort. By definition the importance of the two has to be exactly the same.

IMO the best team is the one that provides the best combination of scoring, defense, and rebounding, which was the Celtics last year. We were the 11th best offense,* 2nd best defense,** and 4th best on the boards.*** I think we'd be equally successful with the 2nd best offense, 11th best defense, and remaining 4th on the boards. But even if you disagree with that, Maggette over Posey would likely improve the offense far more than it would hurt the defense. And that's assuming Maggette doesn't pull a Pierce (show he is actually a dominant defender when he wants to be) or a Ray Allen (show he is actually a better than average defender when he wants to be), which I think would be very likely given his incredible physical tools and the fact that Doc/Thib/KG have been able to get everyone to buy into the defensive concept thus far.

At the end of the day there is never an argument for keeping an aging role player, even a great role player like Posey, over a borderline all-star in his prime if they cost the same price.....there just isn't. All the arguments people make (defense, chemistry, etc.) could work in other contexts, but here the diffence in talent is just too overwhelming. Also, this is a team that has what Posey brings in spades (defnse, toughness, leadership), and lacks the things that Maggette would add (bench scoring/rebounding).

* Measured by total points. Though you could argue that we were actually better than 11th, given that we placed higher in team fg%. Then again the slow pace that hurts offensive stats should help the defensive figures, so I figure it all evens out.

** I could have sworn we were the best defense in the NBA, but when I looked it up on the link at the bottom of this post, it had us second behind the Pistons.

*** Measured by differential.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_ ... able1.html

The huge problem with your theory is that great defense transitions into easy offense. Which improves your offensive rating. Great offense does not transition into easy defense and never will. Just ask the Suns. Also the Celtics do not have the versatility to guard 4 positions that Posey offers in spades. Maggette does not offer that. Posey is a much better fit for this team then Maggette is. Have you not seen our US national team loaded with scorers struggle the last few years. The easiest thing to find in the NBA is a wing scorer to come off the bench. another thing that does not make sense is if you won because your three best players sacraficed their scoring offense. Why in the hell do you need another player who is first and foremost a scorer. I think J. R. Giddens and Bill Walker can contribute what Maggette would.

[SonicYouth34]

Man, i wish we could just give Posey the full MLE for 4 years and be done with it. No way he turns that down.

Give this man a medal!! Get'er done Danny

[hiphop1]

Man, i wish we could just give Posey the full MLE for 4 years and be done with it. No way he turns that down.

Give this man a medal!! Get'er done Danny

You guys are CRAZY!

[greenbeans]

this thread is ridiculous. you guys seriously wanna pay a 31yr old rolplayer max mle?? HAVE YOU SEEN ANYTHING RELATED TO THE KNICKS IN THE LAST 5 YEARS?????

[EdSkae]

Man, i wish we could just give Posey the full MLE for 4 years and be done with it. No way he turns that down.

Give this man a medal!! Get'er done Danny

You guys are CRAZY!

No we aren't the future is now with KG, PP, & Ray. Lets win as many championships as we can. What are you saving the money for? To outright sign a star free-agent. You don't build championship teams by trying to save money and get under the cap to sign star free agents. You build championship teams with good drafts & stock piling contracts that you can use in a trade or sign & trade for star players. There is no good reason to not give Posey whatever it takes to keep him.

[Spin Move]

In my opinion you become a bad team by sacraficing defense for offense. defense wins championships . . .

To me that's always sounded like a logical fallacy perpetuated by coaches to convince their teams to play harder on defense, since a big portion of defensive success is based on effort. By definition the importance of the two has to be exactly the same.

IMO the best team is the one that provides the best combination of scoring, defense, and rebounding, which was the Celtics last year. We were the 11th best offense,* 2nd best defense,** and 4th best on the boards.*** I think we'd be equally successful with the 2nd best offense, 11th best defense, and remaining 4th on the boards. But even if you disagree with that, Maggette over Posey would likely improve the offense far more than it would hurt the defense. And that's assuming Maggette doesn't pull a Pierce (show he is actually a dominant defender when he wants to be) or a Ray Allen (show he is actually a better than average defender when he wants to be), which I think would be very likely given his incredible physical tools and the fact that Doc/Thib/KG have been able to get everyone to buy into the defensive concept thus far.

At the end of the day there is never an argument for keeping an aging role player, even a great role player like Posey, over a borderline all-star in his prime if they cost the same price.....there just isn't. All the arguments people make (defense, chemistry, etc.) could work in other contexts, but here the diffence in talent is just too overwhelming. Also, this is a team that has what Posey brings in spades (defnse, toughness, leadership), and lacks the things that Maggette would add (bench scoring/rebounding).

* Measured by total points. Though you could argue that we were actually better than 11th, given that we placed higher in team fg%. Then again the slow pace that hurts offensive stats should help the defensive figures, so I figure it all evens out.

** I could have sworn we were the best defense in the NBA, but when I looked it up on the link at the bottom of this post, it had us second behind the Pistons.

*** Measured by differential.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_ ... able1.html

The huge problem with your theory is that great defense transitions into easy offense. Which improves your offensive rating. Great offense does not transition into easy defense and never will. Just ask the Suns. Also the Celtics do not have the versatility to guard 4 positions that Posey offers in spades. Maggette does not offer that. Posey is a much better fit for this team then Maggette is. Have you not seen our US national team loaded with scorers struggle the last few years. The easiest thing to find in the NBA is a wing scorer to come off the bench. another thing that does not make sense is if you won because your three best players sacraficed their scoring offense. Why in the hell do you need another player who is first and foremost a scorer. I think J. R. Giddens and Bill Walker can contribute what Maggette would.

There is no chance in hell that Giddens and walker could provide close to what Maggete would Maggete is a top 30 NBA scorer, JR giddens is not that good a scorer, lacks a handle and is not a great shooter from anywhere on the floor (while decent over all of it) Walker is a complete and total question mark but is going to need months to get his knee in shape and will likley play oversees becuase his knee likley wont be back to 100% till about December (remember tony's healing arch). Maggete is strong, Weighs more then Posey can guard smaller 4's like posey did and he might not be quite as long be he is pretty long himself. Maggete can be a good defender, the past 5 years even when he has been playing off the bench he has put up at least 16 per game and when given starters minutes over 20. Lets pretend ray slips a little bit, We would have maggete right there to replace his production, we are an aging team and Ray may be aboiut the same level this season but he will drop off after that if he does. If we can start to limit him to about 28 mins a game maybe we can steal an extra year out of him.

Imagine our team with a big 5 instead of a big 3, Rondo a little more mature, The current big 3 with Ray slightly diminshed and Corry, we could have 2 on the court at all time limit Paul and Ray's minutes Paul played 35.9 minutes per game this year. If we can cut that to 32 next year, and limit ray to 28-30 we save 10 games of wear and tear on both of them. We have 96 minutes at the 2/3 spot, If we played Paul 32, Cory 34 and Ray 30, we could (Or Paul 32 Corey 30 Ray 28, Giddens 6) we could Also get Paul or Magget some time at the 4 spot, but we could at all times have a real scoring threat from the wing on the floor. This makes Powe, and Baby, and our other backup players able to be more effective.

If we keep james posey and Ray slips or paul gets injured we have no chance of winning another title, if we get corey and those same things happen we still have a solid shot though it will be a little harder. The status qou won't be enough other teams are going to improve we need to also. Posey was a great fit but he was a great fit becuase of his effort, that effort could be nearly duplicated by anyone with the proper motivation and physical tools and Maggete has been at times in his carrer willing to play very good D, and in this environment I think he could play good D.