RealGM

Posted: **Tue Jul 8, 2008 7:04 pm**

give the man the extra to keep him.......he did what was asked of him.....he played for less to be here..pay the man the little loot to keep him here.....keep the team together as much as possible....nuff said......what's the word.....Ubuntu?...........lets see if it really means something....... 8-)

Posted: **Tue Jul 8, 2008 8:11 pm**

I'm so happy you're not our GM. Isiah is that you? You never, I mean never overpay for past performance. Posey will take his 20% raise or Danny will let him walk. Simple as that.

Posted: **Tue Jul 8, 2008 9:12 pm**

DorfonCeltics wrote:I'm so happy you're not our GM. Isiah is that you? You never, I mean never overpay for past performance. Posey will take his 20% raise or Danny will let him walk. Simple as that.

What Posey is asking for is not a great overpayment......it is an investment in a player who is a key to the bench....team unity.....you have no idea what Danny will do. Nor do I. Don't call me Ike because I believe in loyality. That's more like Red's belief then Isiah's. Red would look after a loyal guy then worry about the buck...... 8-)

ps....stop being an ass because someone disagrees with you bro........Isiah my ass........ 8-)

Posted: **Tue Jul 8, 2008 9:34 pm**

Kefa461 wrote:ps....stop being an ass because someone disagrees with you bro........Isiah (how my) my ass (taste)........

Posted: **Tue Jul 8, 2008 9:42 pm**

He didn't play for less to be here. No one wanted to give him that kind of money coming off an ordinary season in Miami - one in which he was benched for conditioning issues. Now you guys all want Danny to cave in and pay he 1 Million dollars per point scored per game. <g>

That's ridiculous. Posey was a nice roleplayer for us but he isn't worth the MLE. He isn't worth tying up this team till after key contracts expire..

The way to win in the NBA is simple enough.. have your MAX players be better then MAX guys or Max guys That is to say their production and play is good enough such that they would command MORE or EQUAL to the the MAX. And have your roleplayers be "UNDERPAID" for what they bring.

Posey and House were valued TOO LOW by the market place. That's what helped us win. We got BARGAINS on our bench. Now you guys want rip-offs on the bench? Don't you see the low cost players were key for us to win.

Danny won't be swayed - not even by Pierce. He will stay firm and look for bargains. Not for the owners sake but to preserve our chance of winning. Show me a team with overpaid roleplayers and I will show you a loser.

Pete

Posted: **Tue Jul 8, 2008 10:17 pm**

DorfonCeltics wrote:I'm so happy you're not our GM. Isiah is that you? You never, I mean never overpay for past performance. Posey will take his 20% raise or Danny will let him walk. Simple as that.

Good point!!

Hey my man, I don't write much just cause I get more kick out of reading this stuff but....I like how you are sweating my old quote!

I still stand by it! My, how good looking of a model are we now? Not too good if we can't re-sign Pose or bring in someone good enough to replace.

Posted: **Tue Jul 8, 2008 11:45 pm**

GuyClinch wrote:He didn't play for less to be here. No one wanted to give him that kind of money coming off an ordinary season in Miami - one in which he was benched for conditioning issues. Now you guys all want Danny to cave in and pay he 1 Million dollars per point scored per game. <g>

That's ridiculous. Posey was a nice roleplayer for us but he isn't worth the MLE. He isn't worth tying up this team till after key contracts expire..

The way to win in the NBA is simple enough.. have your MAX players be better then MAX guys or Max guys That is to say their production and play is good enough such that they would command MORE or EQUAL to the the MAX. And have your roleplayers be "UNDERPAID" for what they bring.

Posey and House were valued TOO LOW by the market place. That's what helped us win. We got BARGAINS on our bench. Now you guys want rip-offs on the bench? Don't you see the low cost players were key for us to win.

Danny won't be swayed - not even by Pierce. He will stay firm and look for bargains. Not for the owners sake but to preserve our chance of winning. Show me a team with overpaid roleplayers and I will show you a loser.

Pete

you need look no further than our new york knicks

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 1:05 am**

Pay the man. 4 years, full MLE. That is my position.

Posey is worth it. GuyClinch, pointing to his points scored. Did you want him to hog the ball? If you have Ray Allen, Pierce, and Garnett on your team you shouldn't be dominating the offense.

Posey's impact can not be easily quantified. A 6th man on a 66 win team is worth $5.8 million.

If we want to win next year, keep the core together. The core is the starting 5 + Posey. Everyone else can be replaced.

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 1:13 am**

We basically need Posey, we don't need House back as bad...let's just hope Gabriel Michael can step it up in year 2 and be quick offense off the bench.

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 1:13 am**

Although the Knicks are the poster child for bad management

(immovable contracts of Marbury, Zach Randolph, Q. Richardson & Jared Jeffries),

and have traded away their 2010 First Round Pick and 2009 Second Round Pick,

the Celtics don't have anything resembling that situation.

The only contract slightly out of whack is Brian Scalabrine, who has two years and $6.4 million remaining, which is nothing when you consider that Atlanta owes their third string point guard Speedy Claxon $ 11 million over the next two seasons.

Now, Posey seems to be negotiation posturing.

Apparently Corey Maggette can have the full MLE with 8% raises, which is $ 35 million over 5 years.

If Maggette gets offered $40 to $45 million by Golden State or Philadelphia (not likely a good fit with Iguadala and Thaddeus Young), he might consider that.

Alternatively, a S&T might be swung to get Maggette more from wherever. Personally I think San Antonio is getting old and thin benched except for Duncan, Manu and Parker, but Maggette would be able to start.

The Celtics have apparently offered Posey something like $12 million over 3 years.

If Maggette disappears from the picture, it sounds like Posey would back off a 5 year max MLE deal and settle for a 4 year deal around $20 to $21 million.

That is a major concession when you consider that New Orleans will likely offer the full mid-level, with 8% raises, for 5 years, which is $35 million over 5 years.

The Celtics, as I see it, don't have a choice to compete with New Orleans, especially when Chris Duhon just got $12 million over two years from the Knicks.

The Celtics would probably jump from $4 million to $5 million per year, then $5.25, and then add a 4th year for 4 years at $21 million. They really don't have a choice, and I think that is the minimum that Posey would accept given the state of the market for his services.

I do believe that his preference is to stay with the Celtics, and I view New Orleans as the most dangerous competitor for his services, with the Lakers not to be counted out should they want to step up.

If Posey did leave for some reason, Scalabrine would suddenly have a job again as a mobile Big Power Forward again, alternating with Powe as a backup to KG.

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 1:16 am**

Kefa461 wrote:Don't call me Ike because I believe in loyality. That's more like Red's belief then Isiah's. Red would look after a loyal guy then worry about the buck......

That's great and all, but when Red was assembling championship teams there was no salary cap. McHale, Bird and Parrish were arguably shown "loyalty" after the cap was implemented but: (1) that turned out to be a bad choice, and (2) there's a big difference between those guys and James Posey.

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 2:07 am**

captain_cheapseats wrote:
Kefa461 wrote:Don't call me Ike because I believe in loyality. That's more like Red's belief then Isiah's. Red would look after a loyal guy then worry about the buck......

That's great and all, but when Red was assembling championship teams there was no salary cap. McHale, Bird and Parrish were arguably shown "loyalty" after the cap was implemented but: (1) that turned out to be a bad choice, and (2) there's a big difference between those guys and James Posey.

As a fan and not the teams banker.....I say keep the core intact....the monies not my problem. I want to keep the edge in the East.....keep Posey and build on those guys....... 8-)

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 2:26 am**

with maggette signing danny has no leverage. who else would we spend the mle on? I suppose we could get more than one player but would any of them be more valuable to us than posey? I don't think so. it's time to pay the piper. danny took a shot and he lost so let's get james signed and move on

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 2:40 am**

Red2 wrote:with maggette signing danny has no leverage. who else would we spend the mle on? I suppose we could get more than one player but would any of them be more valuable to us than posey? I don't think so. it's time to pay the piper. danny took a shot and he lost so let's get james signed and move on

But he doesn't have to spend the MLE. We've got holes in three backup spots. Financially it makes no sense to use up all the MLE on one player. Talentwise, it makes no sense to use the MLE to fill one hole and then tie your hands at the other two positions since all you can offer is the min or the biannual exception which is almost the min.

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 3:37 am**

dsorc wrote:
Red2 wrote:with maggette signing danny has no leverage. who else would we spend the mle on? I suppose we could get more than one player but would any of them be more valuable to us than posey? I don't think so. it's time to pay the piper. danny took a shot and he lost so let's get james signed and move on

But he doesn't have to spend the MLE. We've got holes in three backup spots. Financially it makes no sense to use up all the MLE on one player. Talentwise, it makes no sense to use the MLE to fill one hole and then tie your hands at the other two positions since all you can offer is the min or the biannual exception which is almost the min.

1. There won't be enough of the mid-level left, after signing James Posey, to do anything except add a third year to Bill Walker's contract (like Leon Powe and Gabe Pruitt).

Posey will get at least $ 5.25 million, per year, if not more.

I don't want to hear anyone on the Celtics gripe about Posey as long as they haven't dumped Scalabrine. And even worse, the lunkhead who obviously wasn't familiar with Posey's game last summer, and who probably worked off stats and not what he did on both ends of the court, to not have locked Posey up last summer for 4 years at $5 million per. That could easily have been done, of course, the LLE would have had to be used to sign Eddie House first. Another blunder.

2. The issue with Eddie House is not dollars, it's years. The Celtics can offer House $1.8 million to start, with 8% raises each future season. The Celtics only want to offer him the vet minimum ($1.3 million, for one season). That's ridiculous. This could have been avoided by simply offering House a two year contract last year, but that's another blunder. The difference between $1.8 million and $1.3 million is inconsequential to a team getting anywhere into the playoffs, with an additional $50 in PROFIT available to a team going all the way. Time not to be penny foolish. House can do much better than the Celtics offer, the least they can do is have a shooter on the bench when needed. And get rid of Scalabrine before moaning about luxury tax. Teams with trade exceptions, teams with cap space, can just take him for a case of Budweiser in return.

3. Backup center - biggest problem, as PJ had length. The options would seem to be:

a: Mutombo, rumored to be re-signing with Houston. Historically, he has always gone to the biggest paycheck, which may explain why he doesn't have a championship.

b. Alonzo Mourning - 4 months younger than PJ Brown, on one kidney. A prima donna, but a hell of a good one for someone with attitude. Would be nice if he would play for minimum.

c. PJ Brown - pray he joins team in February again

d. Scot Pollard (has said that he will return for minimum). Looks like the Celts may not have a choice.

e. Chris Anderson of New Orleans - not as good as any of above players.

So, the Celtics, if they don't screw around, can sign Posey, Eddie House and Pollard for sure;
and if Jason Williams doesn't want to play for minimum, Tyronn Lue sure sounds like he will.

Oh, that would mean the Celtics ditch Pruitt to one of 11 teams with Trade Exceptions large enough to just accept Pruitt, or one of 3 teams with enough cap room to just accept Pruitt, in return for a second round pick.

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 4:10 am**

Jammer wrote:
dsorc wrote:
Red2 wrote:with maggette signing danny has no leverage. who else would we spend the mle on? I suppose we could get more than one player but would any of them be more valuable to us than posey? I don't think so. it's time to pay the piper. danny took a shot and he lost so let's get james signed and move on

But he doesn't have to spend the MLE. We've got holes in three backup spots. Financially it makes no sense to use up all the MLE on one player. Talentwise, it makes no sense to use the MLE to fill one hole and then tie your hands at the other two positions since all you can offer is the min or the biannual exception which is almost the min.

1. There won't be enough of the mid-level left, after signing James Posey, to do anything except add a third year to Bill Walker's contract (like Leon Powe and Gabe Pruitt).

Posey will get at least $ 5.25 million, per year, if not more.

I don't want to hear anyone on the Celtics gripe about Posey as long as they haven't dumped Scalabrine. And even worse, the lunkhead who obviously wasn't familiar with Posey's game last summer, and who probably worked off stats and not what he did on both ends of the court, to not have locked Posey up last summer for 4 years at $5 million per. That could easily have been done, of course, the LLE would have had to be used to sign Eddie House first. Another blunder.

2. The issue with Eddie House is not dollars, it's years. The Celtics can offer House $1.8 million to start, with 8% raises each future season. The Celtics only want to offer him the vet minimum ($1.3 million, for one season). That's ridiculous. This could have been avoided by simply offering House a two year contract last year, but that's another blunder. The difference between $1.8 million and $1.3 million is inconsequential to a team getting anywhere into the playoffs, with an additional $50 in PROFIT available to a team going all the way. Time not to be penny foolish. House can do much better than the Celtics offer, the least they can do is have a shooter on the bench when needed. And get rid of Scalabrine before moaning about luxury tax. Teams with trade exceptions, teams with cap space, can just take him for a case of Budweiser in return.

3. Backup center - biggest problem, as PJ had length. The options would seem to be:

a: Mutombo, rumored to be re-signing with Houston. Historically, he has always gone to the biggest paycheck, which may explain why he doesn't have a championship.

b. Alonzo Mourning - 4 months younger than PJ Brown, on one kidney. A prima donna, but a hell of a good one for someone with attitude. Would be nice if he would play for minimum.

c. PJ Brown - pray he joins team in February again

d. Scot Pollard (has said that he will return for minimum). Looks like the Celts may not have a choice.

e. Chris Anderson of New Orleans - not as good as any of above players.

So, the Celtics, if they don't screw around, can sign Posey, Eddie House and Pollard for sure;
and if Jason Williams doesn't want to play for minimum, Tyronn Lue sure sounds like he will.

Oh, that would mean the Celtics ditch Pruitt to one of 11 teams with Trade Exceptions large enough to just accept Pruitt, or one of 3 teams with enough cap room to just accept Pruitt, in return for a second round pick.

a couple of things: where's the link on the offer to house for 1.3? i havent heard weve even looked his way yet until the situation with posey is straightened out one way or another. when did we make house an offer?

the other thing. i think we can assume pjs definitely riding off into the sunset and since when is scot pollard better than chris andersen?? assuming andersens abuse issues are behind him talent-wise its not even close. hes way better than pollard who was of little use to us at all last year.

btw you can bet on pruitt getting a shot with our team this year. i think theres little chance hes going anywhere right now.

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 4:15 am**

Pay the man. 4 years, full MLE. That is my position.

Posey is worth it. GuyClinch, pointing to his points scored. Did you want him to hog the ball? If you have Ray Allen, Pierce, and Garnett on your team you shouldn't be dominating the offense.

Posey's impact can not be easily quantified. A 6th man on a 66 win team is worth $5.8 million.

If we want to win next year, keep the core together. The core is the starting 5 + Posey. Everyone else can be replaced.

Posey can be replaced too. <g> I won't be crying if we resign him but by the end of the contract he is almost guaranteed to be dead weight. You know you get raises each year. So your talking about an 8 million dollar deal for a guy who is going to score 6ppg. Bruce Bowen makes half that much.

Pete

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 4:25 am**

With Maggette signing with Golden St, James Jones headed to Miami, and Michael Pietrius headed to Orlando there is not much left on the free agent radar for wing players. I wouldn't mind re-signing Posey but nothing more than 3 years. He is 31 yrs old and he turns 32 this winter. He will probably have a fine season this yr but after that he could be dead weight. He has been known to have bad years after signing a contract and he looked like he had already lost a step come playoff time. Heinsohn said he was the worst defender we had on Kobe and LeBron as he was constantly beaten because he doesn;t have good footspeed like Ray and Pierce. Posey shouldn't get that much more then the 3 yr 12 mil offer that Ainge gave him. I would increase that at most to 3 yrs 15 mil. He is not getting 20 mil like he thinks he is for 4 or 5 years. That is a joke. Maurice Evans on Orlando could be a backup option if we don't resign Posey. He is a good defender and is long at 6-7. He probably won't be as good as Posey was this past seaosn but he isn't much of an downgrade. I am honestly least worried about the wing position with the drafting of Giddens and Walker. I have seen both of these guys play in college alot and they can be good players in the NBA. Both have the ability to defend well, rebound, and slash to the hoop. I am more concerned about backup center. If PJ doesn't come back who is left? Chris "Birdman" Anderson who is a drug addict. We need to pray Mourning comes here otherwise we will be signing some stiff.

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 4:37 am**

Posey was great and incredibly clutch. But look to the Red Sox as an example of a well run team. They let PEDRO go - who if you were around in his heyday was perhaps the best pitcher EVER. There is no shame in loving a guy for coming through when it counted - and realizing that it might never happen again.

Its like Christian Laettner hitting those shots. An amazing clutch player.. He can be celebrated for that.. BGJ can be celebrated for coming through for us when it counted. For his legacy its probably better that he leaves. You guys think it's given that he plays like that again. I think it's a given that he probably does not.

Pete

Posted: **Wed Jul 9, 2008 4:48 am**

GuyClinch wrote:
Pay the man. 4 years, full MLE. That is my position.

Posey is worth it. GuyClinch, pointing to his points scored. Did you want him to hog the ball? If you have Ray Allen, Pierce, and Garnett on your team you shouldn't be dominating the offense.

Posey's impact can not be easily quantified. A 6th man on a 66 win team is worth $5.8 million.

If we want to win next year, keep the core together. The core is the starting 5 + Posey. Everyone else can be replaced.

Posey can be replaced too. <g> I won't be crying if we resign him but by the end of the contract he is almost guaranteed to be dead weight. You know you get raises each year. So your talking about an 8 million dollar deal for a guy who is going to score 6ppg. Bruce Bowen makes half that much.

Pete

agree100%. i can so see danny right now completely unfazed by all this goin down. i have no doubt he is completely prepared to move on from posey and even sign a low level guy like a basden or a snyder or miles or whomever. i really think danny would rather spread his mle out with bringing in a chris andersen, a vet pg, a replacement wing defender and 3 yrs deals for giddens and walker. hell still leave that last roster spot open again just in case.

i think hell count on improvement from davis and powe, help from scal on the more mobile bigs and giddens to step in and play a role right away.

RealGM

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