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Yes the Boston Players (especially the Big 3) gained the Championship experience BUT to me it seems the they got weaker in the off-season.

They lost James Posey, a huge contributer, he played great team defense on Kobe and hit daggers when needed near the end of games.

They also lost PJ Brown, great defense on Pau, rebounded, and hit the open jumper.

They signed Patrick O' Bryant but what is he going to give that's as good as PJ Brown? And I don't see many Free Agents out there that Boston can replace to get the same contributions PJ and Posey brought.

Plus the East got tougher, Philly with Brand, the Pistons are staying pat, and Toronto got JO which isn't much but the East overall did get better.

So what do you guys think, do you think the Celtics got weaker in the off-season although we have a couple of months before the Season and a couple signings could happen before it starts although I don't see any big ones.

We're not weaker, how about them Lakers losing Turiaf? Are they a weaker team now?

Give it a rest people. This Celtics team, as of right now, is the same as the one that entered last season minus Posey plus the two rookies and POB. I think last season turned out pretty good. Ainge obviously has a plan in mind, and nobody has any idea of what it is. One thing that is certain, this team right now will in no way in hell look the same come playoff time next year, never mind the start of the season. I thought winning a championship would at the very least give Ainge the benefit of doubt.

Anyone who doesnt immediately say Yes is foolish.

The growth and winning mentality and yada yada yada...who cares. We are fielding the same team minus Posey.

Was he our MVP? No. Was he a key veteran contributor? Yes.

I am not saying its impossible for us to be as good as last year, but yes, so far this off season there have been more subtractions then positive additions, just a fact.

I hope we do grow and overcome it, but yes as of right now there is no reason to assume we are not a weaker team without James Posey.

-Dizzy

why bother waiting till the beginning of the season, there is no possible way theyll(celtics) make a single move between now and then. good job Shobe, you continue to impress over here at the celtics board.

As of now, we absolutely did. We lost a great role player in Posey and possibly a solid backup C in PJ while adding nothing but rookies (and POB).

With that said, we're still the best team in the NBA and it is not unrealistic to expect Rondo's development and perhaps Tony Allen's health returning, thus, his performance returning to form to make up for the loss of Posey and possibly PJ.

We also still have about $3.5M left of the mid-level and 1 roster spot left, if not 2 (depending on Walker and whether he actually goes overseas), so I don't think we are done yet. We'll probably add either a veteran wing (like Bonzi?) or a veteran backup center (like PJ or Kurt Thomas?).

I think we have the potential to be stronger, though I remind everyone that the season is still about 2 and half months away. A lot can happen between then and now.

But as to why we're stronger:

1. Championship experience, especially for Rondo/Perk/Powe. Danny said our 26-game playoff run was equivalent to 1 year of experience. I tend to agree with that. I think we can expect career-best seasons from all those three next year. Big Baby will also come back stronger too, hopefully slimmer and with 15-foot range.
2. Improved athleticism. People can whine about Posey's loss, but losing him opened up more opportunities and we've filled his place with superior athletes. Last season, the lack of athleticism was our greatest weakness. We've addressed that with the Giddens/Walker draft, Tony Allen's return, and hopefully more minutes for Pruitt. POB, also, is a shot-blocking, long, decently athletic big man we've lacked for a long time.
3. Tony Allen. Danny wasn't going to bring him back unless there were minutes for him to play. With Posey's departure, there are minutes. This season, being over a year removed from knee surgery, Tony will be back. Book it. Expect double digit scoring, and good-to-great perimeter defense at the 1/2/3. Also expect an improved 3 point stroke, especially from the corners. And who wouldn't love a Rondo/TA/Giddens lineup terrorizing the opposing team's 2nd team? I see lots of steals and dunks. And don't forget that Tony is a great starting option and provides solid insurance against an injury to 2 of the Big 3. If Ray's out a couple months, would you rather have Mo Evans, Quinton Ross, or Tony Allen starting in his place? Exactly.
4. No small ball. Posey got a lot of minutes at the 4 last season, to the team's overall detriment (small ball was a great gimmick, and pretty much won us Game 4 of the Finals, but in the long run it wasn't a good lineup for us). Now, Baby and Powe will get most of the backup 4 minutes (or Scal, against jump shooting 4s, like Rashard Lewis) and they're both primed for big years. Our rebounding differential should increase this season.
5. Continuity. We've basically just lost Posey. PJ Brown was a late-season addition and I'm sure we'll leave one spot open to make a similar addition late in the season next year. So, basically we traded Posey for more younger athleticism, while keeping the core of the team intact. WIth 1 season under their belts, and the fruits of ubuntu still fresh in their minds, expect an even better season from our starting unit.

Too early to tell.

Time will tell. The Celtics have some young players who are going to have the chance to step into larger roles.

I believe Rondo, Perk and Powe are basically set in their roles. They might end up playing more MPG... and they might end up playing more end of game minutes, but essentially they know where their shots are and the like. These players should improve a good deal given that they're young and are building on the continuity of last year's championship season in similar roles.

The question marks on the roster revolve primarily around these players: Pruitt, Giddens, Tony Allen, Glen Davis, Patrick O'Bryant, Player to be picked up/traded for during season.

Absolutely vital to the Celtics success are three players of that group, the other players contributions are mostly gravvy if we assume health and no other pick ups for the year: Tony Allen, Glen Davis, and Patrick O'Bryant. I feel that all three of these players will have plenty of chances to succeed, especially Tony and Glen. But for now we don't know how these players will perform and until we see what happens with these players it's pretty impossible to tell if we got weaker, stayed the same, or improved.

RickyDizzle wrote:Anyone who doesnt immediately say Yes is foolish.

The growth and winning mentality and yada yada yada...who cares. We are fielding the same team minus Posey.

Was he our MVP? No. Was he a key veteran contributor? Yes.

I am not saying its impossible for us to be as good as last year, but yes, so far this off season there have been more subtractions then positive additions, just a fact.

I hope we do grow and overcome it, but yes as of right now there is no reason to assume we are not a weaker team without James Posey.

-Dizzy

That is nonsense. First off I would like to make this point. The thread was started by a laker fan who is still crying behind his,insert name of designer sunglasses, beacuse the celts handed the fakers their ass this summer.

James Posey play excellent D and could nail the three. TA can play excellent D and go to the basket. We are missing another sharpshooting 3 pointer off the bench. That is all we are missing right now. Oh wait, we just resigned eddie house nevermind.

I would say we are in the same positon if not better than last year. Thanks for coming by laker fans. Now go back to crying about your 39 point ass kicking in game 6.LOL.

Not at all. They may be weaker on paper but we have a lot of young guys who are rapidly improving. Powe alone is a case in point, at the start of the year he was a DNP-CD, and by the end he was close to Posey as the best bench player. Rondo should be better. Perk has improved steadily. Baby should be more consistent. Our Big 3 are still in their prime. Posey was a loss but hardly irreplaceable. I like the fact that the players we added are all serious athletes, that will definitely help us in the EC against teams like Philly and ATL. I love the Giddens pick, I think you guys will be surprised by this kid, he will contribute in a big way at some point this season.

This isn't NBA2K. Players improve, grow. Teams improve, grow. The playoff run was a huge character-building experience for the whole team. You can't discount the effects of that. We were SO much better against the Lakers than we were against the Hawks. I think we will go into the postseason this year with a lot more confidence and cohesiveness. Our young kids will have another nearly full year of experience. After all, who cares about the RS, it's all about the 'offs now!

I have no doubt that, barring injury, we will be a better TEAM next playoff as compared to the last one. And since the last one turned out pretty well, I'm confident. It's more about how much other teams will have improved. A healthy Spurs team or a Laker team with Bynum would have given us a lot more trouble. And we stayed remarkably healthy, knock on parquet.

If you consider the improvement we can expect from Rondo, the improved health of TA, and any improvement we might get from Pruitt, Perk, Powe, and Baby...and then look at Giddens and Walker and POB...we at the very least haven't gotten much weaker.

And in any event, sometimes you have to get weaker before you can get stronger, and the offseason is not done yet.

threrf23 wrote:If you consider the improvement we can expect from Rondo, the improved health of TA, and any improvement we might get from Pruitt, Perk, Powe, and Baby...and then look at Giddens and Walker and POB...we at the very least haven't gotten much weaker.

And in any event, sometimes you have to get weaker before you can get stronger, and the offseason is not done yet.

and particleman+1

no question we're weaker without Posey. That was a big loss. Having said that going into last year I wasn't expecting much from either posey or house ( or Powe or baby for that matter) and I agree with Danny that the Big 3 made a lot of guys better including Posey and House. So maybe this year someone else will surprise us and play well. Posey was very versatile and in one player he gave you a lot of things that we will now need to get from several players. As for Turiaf I wasn't that impressed and if the Lakers can turn that money into artest or a good player then that's a good move.

you have to compare apples to apples. This time last year, none of us really believed we would be the dominant NBA team and win a title. Most on the RealGM boards laughed that we had no bench and giggled at the idea that Posey and House would be key contributors. A year later, we have much higher ambitions and many see the loss of Posey as critical. So yes, we are a much better team going into this season than we were a year ago.

That said, nobody cares about the regular season Celtics. The real question is whether the 2009 playoff Celtics are weaker than the 2008 playoff Celtics. That will probably depend on who they pick up at the all star break.

Don't lose focus. The regular season is only meaningful if you're scrambling for the 6-7-8 seeds. the only way the Celtics wind up in that boat is if one or more of the big 3 go down with serious injuries

I expect us to be a much improved team next season. The experience we gained this season is immeasurable. And we still aren`t done. Danny will add a couple of veterans to round up our team...

The Celtics got weaker since they've won their ring in Game 6.

As for starting the year off, the Celtics will most likely start about the same level as they were last year if this is the roster at opening day.

Next years playoffs will be only learned during the playoffs. If Rondo can learn to hit an open shot or force the other team to guard him the Celtics will be a better team in next years playoffs then next. If Perkins learns how to not give up cheap fouls and stay on the court next years playoffs the Celtics will be about par from the year before. Both of those possibilities are seperate from one another and there results would be on teh roster we have right now.

The most important things, our starting 5 and the ideological leaders of this team have remained the same. We lost a leader in Posey, but our sheep earned their marks during the playoffs and we still have our defensive leader in Garnett, our coach in Thibs, and the good defense soldiers in Pierce and House not to mention defensive first players in Rondo and Perk.

Right now though since it's off potential and probability I'd say the Celtics will be a worse regular season team assume motivation remains the same due to inconsistency past the starting 5 and House.

bruno sundov wrote:

RickyDizzle wrote:Anyone who doesnt immediately say Yes is foolish.

The growth and winning mentality and yada yada yada...who cares. We are fielding the same team minus Posey.

Was he our MVP? No. Was he a key veteran contributor? Yes.

I am not saying its impossible for us to be as good as last year, but yes, so far this off season there have been more subtractions then positive additions, just a fact.

I hope we do grow and overcome it, but yes as of right now there is no reason to assume we are not a weaker team without James Posey.

-Dizzy

That is nonsense. First off I would like to make this point. The thread was started by a laker fan who is still crying behind his,insert name of designer sunglasses, beacuse the celts handed the fakers their ass this summer.

James Posey play excellent D and could nail the three. TA can play excellent D and go to the basket. We are missing another sharpshooting 3 pointer off the bench. That is all we are missing right now. Oh wait, we just resigned eddie house nevermind.

I would say we are in the same positon if not better than last year. Thanks for coming by laker fans. Now go back to crying about your 39 point ass kicking in game 6.LOL.

Well we didnt get Posey till late August, but if you are saying that if we went into the season right now with this roster we'd be better off then that is ludicrous.

You use having Eddie House and Tony Allen as your evidence on why we are better off? We had them last year....and POSEY.

I'm not saying we can't be just as good, but on paper we have 100% become a weaker team since the season ended, how can anyone argue that?

...granted it doesnt really matter how we look on paper, but thats the topic and yes we look like a weaker team right now then we did at the end of the year....fact.

-Dizzy

We get weaker just because Posey is gone? Hell no, we just added a younger seven footer and two athletic forwards. We still have one more roster spot. Posey may think we are done without him but he is wrong. We are not Miaimi. They kept adding old players. Ainge has done his homework on the history.

To add... people that are counting on 'more development from Rondo, more from Powe, a healthy Tony, an improved Perk...yada yada yada' those are not things you count on when comparing last years team to this year's.

Okay maybe you can count on Rondo gaining some steady improvement, but my point is that player's making huge strides or injury-prone guys being healthy are not things you can count on, they are things you hope for, and a pleasant surprise if it happens.

Would I be thrilled if Powe continues to play at a high level, if Tony Allen has his big year where he is healthy all season, etc? Of course, but any non-celtic fan probably sees those things are more likely NOT to happen than to happen.

In general, I'm just saying it doesnt make sense to expect players to be much better then the season before besides a little steady improvement for young guys. If you expect everyone to be better, and all the injury-prone guys to put full healthy seasons together you are being a fanboy/homer and setting yourself up for disappointment.

I am not all gloom and doom, I think we can be a better team next year possibly, but if you judge this team by its offseason transactions (as the OP is requesting in this thread) there is nothing that indicates we should be a better team this year.

07-08' + POB + Walker + Giddens - Posey = '08-09'

How can you say that acquiring 3 players no NBA experience makes us stronger then having Posey?

-Dizzy