Balancing Out the Roster

Jammer · Post #1 » by **Jammer** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:23 am

With 12 players under contract, and two more draft picks to be signed,

the Celtics depth chart currently stands at:

C: Kendrick Perkins / Patrick O'Bryant / Glen Davis

PF: Kevin Garnett / Leon Powe / Brian Scalabrine

SF: Paul Pierce / Bill Walker

SG: Ray Allen / Tony Allen / J. R. Giddens

PG: Rajon Rondo / Eddie House / Gabe Pruitt

That's 14 players, if the two rookies are signed.

What seems to be missing are a true backup point guard who can protect the ball in high pressure situations,
a back up center with length AND strength,
and a backup SF who can defend LeBron James / Luol Deng / Tayshaun Prince / Hedo Turkoglu / Caron Butler / Richard Jefferson / Andre Iguadala / Thaddeus Young.

To add possibly 3 players, the Celtics would have to trade Pruiit, Scalabrine or Davis to teams with large enough Trade Exceptions or cap space.

BillessuR6 · Post #2 » by **BillessuR6** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:15 am

If we could unload Scalabrine that would be great. But in order to do so we would have to give away a 1st round pick also, IMO.

I wonder how much Kurt Thomas will get. I would like to add him for what is left of the MLE and George for the veteran minimum...

I am OK with our PG situation. Rondo will be much better next season, we also have Eddie and I expect Pruitt to be given a chance to prove himself. I think he will be ready to contribute next season.

rambo_ortega · Post #3 » by **rambo_ortega** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:41 am

unload scal and package with a pick and trade to a team who can give us a SF or sign devean george.

buckner1976 · Post #4 » by **buckner1976** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:55 am

i think danny just signs the kids and goes with what we ave now. obryant and davis get the min at backup center and obryant gets minutes to learn and improve. later on we pick up mourning for the stretch run and obryant gets a front row seat to watch.

lojowo · Post #5 » by **lojowo** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:54 pm

If these are the options and I can only pick one, Id add Mourning.

The loss of Posey/PJ Brown makes me feel we need to add some back up interior defense.

I'd give Davis and Powe first crack at defending the Bigs Posey handled.

I'd let Tony Allen have a shot at guarding the Wings Posey guarded.

If Davis/Powe/Obryant prove the can guard the centers well, when Mourning is available, I might look at other options.

I'd love to add another scorer if our defense plays as well as last year, but I dont think we'll know that until a few monthes into the season

dsorc · Post #6 » by **dsorc** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:24 pm

I don't see us adding anything beyond the rookies. Beyond that, some of those options are not realistic or are just plain dumb. The only two that have a chance are signing George for the min to be a third stringer or signing mourning midseason but even that one will be difficult as he'll take a Miami offer over anybody else. Mutombo has publicly expressed that it's Houston or retirement for him. Trading away young kids for nothing just to create a roster slot seems like a dumb idea and given the kids you're offering you're not going to get good enough value anyways. To finish it off, Scal is unmovable. This is not a videogame, teams and FA are not trying to do stuff for the better of this team. They're trying to do what's best for them. This means that only some very dumb teams with good reason make one sided trades and that FA join a team not because of chances for the teamd to do well but because they want playing time and money. Guess what, we don't have much of either left.

Post #7 » by **ParticleMan** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:04 pm

The roster is already balanced.
We might add someone at the end of the bench, but my guess is we just keep the roster spot open for later in the year.

Gomes3PC · Post #8 » by **Gomes3PC** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:05 pm

Adding the 6-8 Devean George, who can play that SF/PF (in smallball) defensively, plus shoot the 3 well, would be nice. Plus he has been on several successful teams. I'd be happy to add him to the fray. He's not Posey, but if he comes at less than 50% of the price and gives us 75% of the production, I'd be okay with that.

Dave_From_NB · Post #9 » by **Dave_From_NB** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:45 am

When I look at the roster in terms of balance, I look at what the plan would be if any one of the starters needed to go out for an extended number of games. Perk out, Powe/Davis/O'Bryant can slide in. KG out, Powe/Davis/Scal in. Ray Allen out, Tony Allen/Eddie House/Giddens in. Rondo out, House/Pruitt/(even I dare say) Tony Allen. None of the plan B's is as good as the starter obviously, but we could stagger through.

Where I struggle, is what we do if Pierce is out. I know he logs the minutes, but if he went out, what is a suitable approach? I find it hard to believe Walker can step in immediately. Maybe Ray Allen comes in, backfilled by Tony at SG. Powe/Davis/Scal/Tony Allen, none seem to fit very well.

Perhaps someone has a suggestion that I've missed for Pierce or could erase my concerns, but at this point an experienced SF to back up Pierce is my vote as top need.

TheSheriff · Post #10 » by **TheSheriff** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:05 am

Trading Davis or Pruitt for second round picks really accomplishes nothing. Both players are better than anyone you can except to get with a second round pick. Besides you can always buy late first or early second round picks if you see someone you want.

No one is going to trade for Scalabrine. He has an unmovable contract.

Mutombo said last year that he did not want to leave Houston and that he did not want to live in Boston because it is too cold. So Mutombo is probably not walking through that door.

I would like a veteran small foward defender, but Devean George is so limited offensively that he is more of liability than a help.

If Maybury came to Boston i have a feeling he would struggle like Cassell and might even be a distraction.

Morning would be a good addition.

Jammer · Post #11 » by **Jammer** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:47 am

Dave_From_NB wrote:Perhaps someone has a suggestion that I've missed for Pierce or could erase my concerns, but at this point an experienced SF to back up Pierce is my vote as top need.

I agree that backup small forward (scoring forward, actually) is the biggest need.

I also agree that right now Ray Allen would slide over, unless Walker shows that he can get minutes.

I think it likely that Giddens and Walker will be added, which will total 14 players.

I can also see a true small forward that can defend, which would make 15.

I also think that Danny plans to carry 13 players into the season, like last year, in case someone like Mourning decides not to be a Prima Donna and win another championship,
or in case Steph Marbury decides to increase his value (hard to believe I just said that about the second highest paid player in the NBA behind Kevin Garnett) by winning for a change, and join the Celtics should he be bought out from the Knicks.

So, I actually do think that Danny will move some players. Now, before the rosters fill up and someone can't just be shipped out and not take a player back.

Scal can only go to a team with cap space
(Memphis,
Golden State if they re-sign Biedrins first,
Atlanta if Childress signs in Greece)
or a $3.2 Million trade exception, (Denver, Nets)
that needs a mobile power forward that can defend the perimeter and spread the floor.

Pruitt can go to a team that needs a 3rd string PG, with cap space (Golden State) or
a $750k trade exception (Denver, Sacramento, Nets).

Davis can go to any team since he is a minimum salary player.

I don't think that Danny will trade Davis unless he knows that Mutombo or Mourning will accept the one year minimum contract that Danny and Doc offered them.

I think that Danny might trade Pruitt now, if he thinks that Steph may get cut loose and play for the Celtics. KG, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo, Perk, Ray and perhaps Coach Cassell would have to set Steph straight before he signed (my solution would be the exact opposite of what the Knicks did. In New York, when someone like Kurt Thomas said that he was gonna beat up Marbury, he got traded). It might be easier to let the team police itself, and keep everyone on the same program, without the inevitable griping/outlandish statements that Marbury makes that are a bigger problem than his play on the court).

dsorc · Post #12 » by **dsorc** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:12 am

Jammer wrote:
Dave_From_NB wrote:Perhaps someone has a suggestion that I've missed for Pierce or could erase my concerns, but at this point an experienced SF to back up Pierce is my vote as top need.

I agree that backup small forward (scoring forward, actually) is the biggest need.

I also agree that right now Ray Allen would slide over, unless Walker shows that he can get minutes.

I think it likely that Giddens and Walker will be added, which will total 14 players.

I can also see a true small forward that can defend, which would make 15.

I also think that Danny plans to carry 13 players into the season, like last year, in case someone like Mourning decides not to be a Prima Donna and win another championship,
or in case Steph Marbury decides to increase his value (hard to believe I just said that about the second highest paid player in the NBA behind Kevin Garnett) by winning for a change, and join the Celtics should he be bought out from the Knicks.

So, I actually do think that Danny will move some players. Now, before the rosters fill up and someone can't just be shipped out and not take a player back.

Scal can only go to a team with cap space
(Memphis,
Golden State if they re-sign Biedrins first,
Atlanta if Childress signs in Greece)
or a $3.2 Million trade exception, (Denver, Nets)
that needs a mobile power forward that can defend the perimeter and spread the floor.

Pruitt can go to a team that needs a 3rd string PG, with cap space (Golden State) or
a $750k trade exception (Denver, Sacramento, Nets).

Davis can go to any team since he is a minimum salary player.

I don't think that Danny will trade Davis unless he knows that Mutombo or Mourning will accept the one year minimum contract that Danny and Doc offered them.

I think that Danny might trade Pruitt now, if he thinks that Steph may get cut loose and play for the Celtics. KG, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo, Perk, Ray and perhaps Coach Cassell would have to set Steph straight before he signed (my solution would be the exact opposite of what the Knicks did. In New York, when someone like Kurt Thomas said that he was gonna beat up Marbury, he got traded). It might be easier to let the team police itself, and keep everyone on the same program, without the inevitable griping/outlandish statements that Marbury makes that are a bigger problem than his play on the court).

I am very very glad you're not this team's GM. Trading a rookie for nothing is just dumb. I don't care that it frees up a roster space for your grand vision it's just dumb. No reason to dump a guy that makes that little money and if we need a 2nd round pick we'll buy one like we did this year and previous years.As for your Scal delusions. I dare you to go to trade board and suggest those deals. Nobody is going to take Scal: he has negative value.

Stephon Marbury is a cancer and I think Danny learned from Cassell last year that a guy like that may look gret on paper but on the court it doesn't fit this team concept. Mutombo as has been said plenty of times has no interest in signing with us. Mourning is a maybe at midseason.

We have twelve guys signed. Danny has hinted that Walker will be asked to play in Europe and fact is that we don't have to sign him. Giddens we will sign. So our wing Rotation becomes PP, Ray, TA, Giddens, with a sprinkling of House and Scal in emergency situations though Scal probably won't dress for 90% of the games. So, yes, if PP goes down then TA would be the stopgap and Giddens would be asked to step up as the main backup. Is this an ideal situation? Heck no, but then again teams aren't constructed with a star injury in mind. Just think what would Cleveland do if Lebron goes down. Or San Antonio if TD goes down. No team will have a perfect solution for the stars going down because it's a better idea to have better backups where you're weak to help shore up the weakness instead of overloading a position.

Celtics2000 · Post #13 » by **Celtics2000** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:29 am

We have Posey being replaced by a rookie in Giddens, and PJ Brown being replaced by unproven O'Bryant.

Not good.

Powe and Davis can at least provide the beef, if not the height, at center.

I would let Walker play in Europe and sign Brandon Wallace. He can defend the SF

DelMonte West · Post #14 » by **DelMonte West** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am

Anyone that votes to trade Pruitt for a future 2nd rounder is a tool. That is all.

GuyClinch · Post #15 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:59 am

Posey played some 4 - so those minutes will be made up by Powe and Baby. He also played some 3 so those minutes will be made up by TA and Giddens. I don't expect much drop off in the regular season. In the playoffs - will that lack of 3 point shooting out of the 3 and 4 spots hurt us? Who knows..

Danny feels we need more athleticism out there - and playing TA/Giddens/Powe will accomplish that.

buckner1976 · Post #16 » by **buckner1976** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:00 am

Celtics2000 wrote:We have Posey being replaced by a rookie in Giddens, and PJ Brown being replaced by unproven O'Bryant.

Not good.

Powe and Davis can at least provide the beef, if not the height, at center.

I would let Walker play in Europe and sign Brandon Wallace. He can defend the SF

posey is being replaced by the combo of tony and giddens though mostly tony. and o'bryant is not replacing pj. we wont the bulk of our 66 games without pj even on the roster. patrick is replacing NOBODY. he is an addition, plain and simple. and let me get this straight. you wanna send walker overseas and replace him with a converted center with no more nba experience than bill walker but less time at the actual position he'd be playing? this HAS to be a joke. am i being punk'd?