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Is it possible that Ainge and Doc are considering Tony Allen as a possible starter next year?

When [Allen] had a chance to play significant minutes last year - actually the last few years - he played really well. He struggled in short-minute roles. We were 9-2 when he started. Our defense was better when he was on the court. In plus-minus we were plus-31 with Tony on the court as a starter.

Could Ray Allen be moved to a Ginobli-esque 6th man role?

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/07/24/allen_will_be_ready_to_jump_in/

It's a vote of confidence for sure, but Tony is a few years away from starting over Ray and Ray is a few years away from coming off the bench for Tony.

my interpretation was more that they want to give him longer stretches and more minutes on a consistent basis, and also that he may be viewed as a better fill in starter for pp and ray than pose, but i dont know about displacing ray allen

I think TA and PP starting would be a great wing duo. With Ray Allen a favorite for sixth man of the year. But, I am not to sure about a Rondo/TA back court. One of them would really have to establish their outside shot this year.

I think Tony Allen would be a great starter, way above the league average, for the stampede or one of many of D-league teams, I know we tend to get excited about whatever we have, but tony allen for other then a 20 game stretch pre injury has flat out stunk most of his carrer, I am glad we resigned him though, it will give us 1 more contract to have flexibility to trade fpr a better player, betwee him and veal we can bring in a guy of about artest's salary range and perhaps after this season when he is expiring his contract will help the team.

I don't see it unless someone gets injured. I actually think it would piss Ray off if you put him on the bench. I could be wrong.

GregB wrote:I think TA and PP starting would be a great wing duo. With Ray Allen a favorite for sixth man of the year. But, I am not to sure about a Rondo/TA back court. One of them would really have to establish their outside shot this year.

Exactly.

And, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Id love for Tony to start, he seems like a totally different player however we can not bench Ray for Allen to start.

We need Ray to open space for KG and PP...Tony would not do that. Tony and Ray on the 2nd unit (since they keep Ray on the floor for 48 minutes anyway) is a nice combo. I'd rather start House (depending on the defensive matchup) at 2 if Ray is to be benched to keep the middle open.

Really, we need a Rondo that follows through with his hands every time he shoots. If he loses that spastic tick thing about just popping the ball out of his hands every other game (or every road game), he'll make the Celtics a very difficult team to defend. He and Ray should spend a couple of hours shooting every day this summer, I'm sure Ray's got nothing better to do..

Just as a note, I agree with most of what is posted...Ray is better, should start, its a better mix with his shooting, etc. I was wondering if there could, could be a hidden message or indication of intended usage.

I just thought the rhetoric was a little thicker than normal and the choice of words, specifically twice using the word starter and giving statistical cause for better performance as a starter, seemed unnecissary. DA easily could have said, 'Tony puts up better numbers when he has longer more stable minutes, which he will have the opportunity for'...rather than saying, "we win more and he plays better when he starts".

I would like to see, however, more of Rondo and TA on the floor together. Two seasons ago, one of the few positives I saw was the athleticism and tenacity that duo displayed when on the floor together.

Ray will start. End of discussion. No hidden anything. I think Ainge was talking more about minutes Rondo and TA on the floor together means zero outside shooting at 2 key positions.

Yeah the hidden message is, even celtics.com felt the need to pull every abscure stat they could find to label re-signing Tony Allen as the big offseason move to help bring 18 here next year.

Answer: No.

canman1971 wrote:Ray will start. End of discussion. No hidden anything. I think Ainge was talking more about minutes Rondo and TA on the floor together means zero outside shooting at 2 key positions.

When Tony Allen has gotten consistent minutes his shooting hasn't been at all terrible. Rondo is going to improve that outside shot this season probably as much as it improved during the last offseason. Rondo has plans on being one of the best Floor Generals in the game. I wouldn't count on Rondo's shot being too shaky for much longer.

More importantly, with these two guys the Celtics have one of the most athletic, aggressive backcourts in the league. That means more steals, more fastbreaks, more layups... all good things. I'd love for these guys to play more like Parker-Ginobli in terms of the transition game, a true thing of beauty and devastating to opponents.

celticfan42487 wrote:Yeah the hidden message is, even celtics.com felt the need to pull every abscure stat they could find to label re-signing Tony Allen as the big offseason move to help bring 18 here next year.

My thoughts exactly.

humblebum wrote:More importantly, with these two guys the Celtics have one of the most athletic, aggressive backcourts in the league. That means more steals, more fastbreaks, more layups... all good things. I'd love for these guys to play more like Parker-Ginobli in terms of the transition game, a true thing of beauty and devastating to opponents.

You're exactly right, humblebum.

Last year, Ray may have helped the spacing and kept defenders off Paul and KG, but the greater issue should be the efficiency of our offense; an offense which last season relied too heavily on jump shooting (Ray and KG especially). In fact, our offense played the best when we played through Rondo, letting him breakdown his man, penetrate to the lane, and either dish for dunks or open shots, or finish himself. Putting the ball in his hands on a consistent basis makes it harder for teams to drop off him (as Doc found out in the Finals), mitigating his shooting problems (which should be almost fixed by this upcoming season). So, if we're smart, and work on improving our offense from last year, we're going to move away from last year's offense. Specifically, if we move towards a more Rondo-orientated offense, we won't necessarily need Ray's shooting to space the floor. In fact, Tony Allen probably is a better pairing precisely because he can cover Rondo's forays into the lane, getting back on defense and covering the basket when Rondo gets to the rim or goes after offensive rebounds.

The fact is, TA gives this team better defense, more speed on the perimeter and down the court, and rounds out the starting five much more efficiently. A Rondo/TA backcourt would be a terror defensively and in transition, giving the Cs the easy buckets they lacked so much last season. That, coupled with a Rondo-orientated offense, would give our starting 5 a greater defense and more efficient offense, while the move of Ray Allen would strengthen our bench as well.

Practically speaking, though, we just can't give TA the starting nod; he has to earn it and Ray has be alright about going to the bench as the sixth man. But the idea is solid.

Good post ryaningf. But let me make it clear that I'm not necessarily in favor of starting Tony, mostly out of respect for and belief in Ray's game. In all honesty, Ray should start unless Tony badly outplays him. The one benefit of Ray going to the bench is that it would allow for Rondo to feature his own offense in terms of scoring. When Rondo is responsible for getting Ray, Paul, and KG started on offense it takes away from his scoring abilities. The counterpoint would be that as the team gels it will gradually improve in terms of keeping all of the options offensively in the flow of the game. Hopefully, this season Rondo and the rest of the starting unit are able to function much more smoothly and efficiently offensively, with TA leading the charge with the second group in a more uptempo, defensive pressure, attacking style.

Not only is Ray Allen going to be starting next year, more of the offense is going to go through him as well...the last two rounds of the playoffs showed that the team is at its best when Pierce and Ray are the 1st and 2nd options offensively...KG will be the distrubutor/3rd option who makes a lot of the decisions in the half-court, but the offense is going to be wing oriented...

In no way, shape, or form is Tony Allen going to be starting...he'll back up Pierce and Ray and spend a good deal of time on the court, but you are dreaming if you think the team is about to start him....Ray Allen just showed his worth when he's involved in the offense--they aren't about to make him the 6th man..

My prediction: Ray sets career high in FG% and averages over 20ppg next year...Tony will have a fantastic year...off the bench...

I have little doubt that TA could be a quality starter in the league, the question is whether or not he's a better option than Ray Allen. On the one hand, Tony seems to play better as a starter, so in that respect our team is improved, but if Ray has similar troubles to Tony's coming off the bench, then we are right where we started. I also think Ray is going to look a lot better this year than last. He too was nursing some lingering injuries throughout the season, which only floated to the surfaces a couple of times. In game 6, I finally felt like the team was clicking on all cylinders, throughout the year it had seemed difficult to work in Ray alongside KG and Paul. We only seemed to get a good outing from 2 of the big 3 at a time. Doc has said that he needed to make a better effort of getting Ray involved in the offense, so we'll probably see Ray as more of a focal point of what we do. Maybe this could be better accomplished with him off the bench, but I don't think we should take any steps to change our starting lineup before the season is fully in gear and we see what we have.

seriously, i can't believe anyone here remotely would consider starting Tony over Ray. i mean c'mon, you guys are seriously undervaluing Ray Allen here. i love Tony and all but he's not in Ray's area code as far as talent and impact on a game.

nor do i understand the idea that he would be a better match with rondo. rondo has enough trouble finishing, he doesn't need tony's guy being able to sag and help out on the drive. one thing about having Ray out there is that one defender has to stay within arm's reach of Ray at all times. i think Rondo and Ray work great together. i see no reason to mess with that.