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Successful Trade Scenario. Trade ID #4754463

The Boston Celtics trade: / the Chicago Bulls receive:

Ray Allen*
Gabe Pruitt**
Eddie House***
Brian Scalabrine*

* expiring in 2010
** team option for 2009/2010
*** player option for 2009/2010, can't be dealt until December, the 15th. He may be replaced by another former Boston player, for instance Scot Pollard.

Why this might work for the Chicago Bulls: Boston and Chicago seem to be good trading partners to me. Boston lacks depth on the wings, whereas Chicago has a glut of of swingmen. The Chicago Bulls receive the best player in the deal, who happens to have the perfect contract structure for Chicago's 2010 plan. Ray Allen is the lethal outside shooter to compliment Derrick Rose, with the ability to defend shooting guards. His experience will surely help a young team like Chicago in order to ease the transition of Derrick Rose to the NBA, as the rookie guard will benefit from a stable minute rotation in the backcourt and being relieved of a great load of pressure. This deal balances Chicago's tumultuous team and salary structure once and for all, while creating a stable outlook for the next seasons and maximum capspace for 2010. Their new team looks much better and more balanced to me than the current one.

1) Derrick Rose - Eddie House - Gabe Pruitt
2) Ray Allen - Ben Gordon (QO) - Thabo Sefolosha
3) Luol Deng - Thabo Sefolosha - Demetris Nichols
4) Tyrus Thomas - Thabo Sefolosha - Brian Scalabrine
5) Joakim Noah - Drew Gooden - Cedric Simmons

The Boston Celtics receive: / the Chicago Bulls trade:

Aaron Gray
Kirk Hinrich
Larry Hughes
Andres Nocioni
2009 1st-round draft pick (top10 through 2013, unprotected in 2013)

Why this might work for the Boston Celtics: This deal provides them with an influx of decent role players, who cover various facets of the game in order to compliment their 1-2 punch of Garnett and Pierce. Hinrich and Nocioni provide outside shooting, while Rondo and Pierce can focus on attacking the rim and converting foul shots.
In this proposal, the Celtics decide to take on Larry Hughes in order to get their hands on a pick in 2009 (reminder: Boston's 2009 1st-round draft pick is owed to Minnesota). Therefore, they agree on an expansion from a fundamental Hinrich/Nocioni for R. Allen swap to the proposed deal, which saves Chicago 6m$ this season alone, and further 65m$ (about 71m$ combined) over the next four seasons until 2012. Whether Boston can squeeze some production out of LH has to be seen, but it doesn't hurt them as much as Chicago to have him on their roster.
Clifford Ray is working with young big Patrick O'Bryant, so I thought that Aaron Gray might be of interest for you as well. He's basically the fourth big man in Chicago's rotation, which is trying to make room for Tyrus Thomas (and Thabo Sefolosha).

1) Kirk Hinrich - Rajon Rondo - x
2) Larry Hughes - Tony Allen - J.R. Giddens
3) Paul Pierce - Andres Nocioni - Bill Walker
4) Kevin Garnett - Leon Powe - Glen Davis
5) Kendrick Perkins - Patrick O'Bryant - Aaron Gray (/Semih Erden)

Hasn't this exact same trade been mentioned here before?

No to this trade.

It won't work for the C's. The C's are perhaps the ultimate testament to the uselessness of "roleplayers" as compared to stars. You should never exchange quality for quantity. If your giving up a perenial all-star you should get one back. You can find roleplaying quality players of the Larry Hughes/Noconi/Hinrich ilk for a ton less then a Ray Allen.

Nocioni and Hinrich would be the only guys I'd be intersted in, but not at that cost...no thanks!

Aaron Gray - Trash
Kirk Hinrich - Overrated Trash
Larry Hughes - Garbage
Andres Nocioni - Overrated garbage

May I ask the difference between trash and garbage?

lol

Don't want to trade quality for quantity. Celtics give up the best player in the deal, and hinrich wouldn't even start. Hughes would also have a good chance of Tony Allen going by him.

MyInsatiableOne wrote:Nocioni and Hinrich would be the only guys I'd be intersted in, but not at that cost...no thanks!

Nocioni and Hinrich are on decling deals. They expire along with Kevin Garnett in 2012. In order to swallow Hughes, you get a top10 protected pick for 2009 as well, which is said to be somewhere in the middle of the first-round.

Hughes is the deterant in this deal, but he can be useful at the 2010 trade deadline in order to acquire a player of interest (best case would be a Gasol-esque player for sure).

Rocky5000 wrote:Don't want to trade quality for quantity. Celtics give up the best player in the deal, and hinrich wouldn't even start. Hughes would also have a good chance of Tony Allen going by him.

Hinrich can start at shooting guard, where he has earned All-NBA 2nd-team defense honors.

Prophet_C wrote:May I ask the difference between trash and garbage?

lol

Garbage stinks worse then trash.

Ray Allen Iverson wrote:

MyInsatiableOne wrote:Nocioni and Hinrich would be the only guys I'd be intersted in, but not at that cost...no thanks!

Nocioni and Hinrich are on decling deals. They expire along with Kevin Garnett in 2012. In order to swallow Hughes, you get a top10 protected pick for 2009 as well, which is said to be somewhere in the middle of the first-round.

Hughes is the deterant in this deal, but he can be useful at the 2010 trade deadline in order to acquire a player of interest (best case would be a Gasol-esque player for sure).

Rocky5000 wrote:Don't want to trade quality for quantity. Celtics give up the best player in the deal, and hinrich wouldn't even start. Hughes would also have a good chance of Tony Allen going by him.

Hinrich can start at shooting guard, where he has earned All-NBA 2nd-team defense honors.

This alone is why I would not do the trade...

Ray Allen Iverson wrote:

MyInsatiableOne wrote:Nocioni and Hinrich would be the only guys I'd be intersted in, but not at that cost...no thanks!

Nocioni and Hinrich are on decling deals. They expire along with Kevin Garnett in 2012. In order to swallow Hughes, you get a top10 protected pick for 2009 as well, which is said to be somewhere in the middle of the first-round.

Hughes is the deterant in this deal, but he can be useful at the 2010 trade deadline in order to acquire a player of interest (best case would be a Gasol-esque player for sure).

Rocky5000 wrote:Don't want to trade quality for quantity. Celtics give up the best player in the deal, and hinrich wouldn't even start. Hughes would also have a good chance of Tony Allen going by him.

Hinrich can start at shooting guard, where he has earned All-NBA 2nd-team defense honors.

This alone is why I would not do the trade...

Wow guys sorry for the double post!!

CHI can keep their crappy contracts! This deal is absolutely atrocious for the celtics!

the ONLY player I'd part with Ray for that's on the Bulls is Ben Gordon.

Maybe a s&t Ben Gordon + Nocioni for Ray

MyInsatiableOne wrote:This alone is why I would not do the trade...

You don't want your players to be cheaper over the course of time and you don't like Hinrich' ability to play two positions quite well? I do understand the Larry Hughes argument, but then I've been told that the Celtics are interested in having an additional expiring for player transactions in the future.

thebirdman wrote:CHI can keep their crappy contracts! This deal is absolutely atrocious for the celtics!

Three of four incoming players have decent deals. Nocioni has a declining 4ys / 29m$ deal - that's the MLE for a decent player. Hinrich has a declining 4ys / 36.5m$ deal - that's 9m$ for a starting point guard and fair money considering that he can backup Rajon Rondo and even provide everything you would need from a shooting guard beside Pierce and Garnett.

greenbeans wrote:the ONLY player I'd part with Ray for that's on the Bulls is Ben Gordon.

Maybe a s&t Ben Gordon + Nocioni for Ray

I'd do that.

The trade doesn't make sense from a talent or financial standpoint...beside the fact that Ray Allen is the most talented player in the trade, the Celtics have young talent at the PG and wing positions already, so Hinrich's age relative to his accomplishment is the only true advantage...

However, none of these players are difference makers and Ray Allen's contract comes off the books much sooner than either Nocioni, Hinrich, or Hughes...Boston takes on money and doesn't get better---why would we do this?

Boston is managing its cap for a big potential move in 2010-2012, they don't want to limit that window to the final year of their current large contracts...the fact that all the players in the deal coming their way are solid, but unspectacular further lessons the interest....

This is a bad trade, pure and simple...the logic and premise of the topic was sound, but it just doesn't fit what the organization is doing...they are perfectly fine with GPA and managing the cap around them...they'll strike for a big-time contributor who gives great production value relative to his cost, but this trio of Bulls doesn't provide that...

absolutely garbage. what a terrible proposal.... I don't understand this... the C's win 17 and now you want them trade ray ray? and for a package that centers around friggin cap'n kirk? where do you come up with garbage?

alwayslovetheceltics wrote:absolutely garbage. what a terrible proposal.... I don't understand this... the C's win 17 and now you want them trade ray ray? and for a package that centers around friggin cap'n kirk? where do you come up with garbage?

garbage, terrible, frigging garbage... if you base your argumentation on solely depreciations, a discussion is senseless from the very beginning. Thanks for the input, nevertheless.

billfromBoston wrote:The trade doesn't make sense from a talent or financial standpoint...beside the fact that Ray Allen is the most talented player in the trade, the Celtics have young talent at the PG and wing positions already, so Hinrich's age relative to his accomplishment is the only true advantage...

Besides Rajon Rondo and Tony Allen, I don't see the Celtics having the quality depth in order to provide substantial relief for Ray Allen in the backcourt. The Celtics do not have a reliable backup point guard, that can pick up the slack, which would be caused by injuries to either Rondo or Allen and most importantly, the departure of James Posey hasn't been compensated by a MLE signing. I do not contradict, that currently, Ray Allen would still have to be tagged as the best player in this proposal, the slight difference to Hinrich to me, however, doesn't warrant the refusal of a well needed talent influx, which would be provided by a 2009 1st-round draft pick (and only top10 protected) Gray, Hughes and Nocioni package, compared to the marginal loss resulting from the departure of players like Eddie House, Gabe Pruitt and Brian Scalabrine.

billfromBoston wrote:However, none of these players are difference makers and Ray Allen's contract comes off the books much sooner than either Nocioni, Hinrich, or Hughes...Boston takes on money and doesn't get better---why would we do this?

This is a simple assumption of yours. You get three to four (the fourth would be the pick) starting caliber player for one older, superior one, who will definitely show signs of age over the next two seasons. This deal doesn't cut into your flexibility unless you are going to renounce Rajon Rondo in 2010. IMO, this deal improves your flexibility because of the declining, thus cap friendly contracts of Hinrich and Nocioni, Hughes' 2010 expiring and the additional mid 1st-round pick, whose appealing character might not appear until next June, when Boston doesn't possess one on their own.

billfromBoston wrote:Boston is managing its cap for a big potential move in 2010-2012, they don't want to limit that window to the final year of their current large contracts...the fact that all the players in the deal coming their way are solid, but unspectacular further lessons the interest....

I think the opposite way. This deal elongates Boston's championship window for two additional years until 2012, while it provides even more assets (Gray, the pick, Hughes' 2010 expiring) than the mere expiring of Ray Allen would.

billfromBoston wrote:This is a bad trade, pure and simple...

No, it's not. I do understand, that you appreciate Ray Allen for everything he did for you, but the NBA is a business, where standstill might lead to mediocracy. That's why I think, that a package, which could potentially bring back your pick from 2007 (Chicago's 2009 1st-rounder), younger players in Hinrich, Nocioni and Gray + the 2010 expiring asset of Hughes will increase your chances to win further championships over the course of the next four seasons.

billfromBoston wrote:the logic and premise of the topic was sound, but it just doesn't fit what the organization is doing...they are perfectly fine with GPA and managing the cap around them...they'll strike for a big-time contributor who gives great production value relative to his cost, but this trio of Bulls doesn't provide that...

Just for my information, which offers were reported to be field by Ray Allen in a trade?

Bad trade for the Celtics. First, why would you break up the big 3 unless you are getting a young star in the process? All we are getting are younger mediocre players with big contracts. Secondly, Nocioni, Hinrich and Hughes may all be backups on the team. Nocioni wont beat out Pierce for a starting spot. Hinrich and Rondo had similar stats last year, but Rondo is 5 years younger so I don't see Hinrich being an upgrade over Rondo. Lastly, I could easily see a healthy TA beating out Hughes for a starting spot. We also lose our 2 best outside shooters in House and Ray and our outside shooting would be very weak.

So the Celtics pick up a bunch of high priced reserves, lose the best player in the deal, lose the 2 best outside shooters on the team and risk messing with team chemistry. Bad deal for the Celtics.

why exactly would you want to trade one of your key players for...well to say it nicely garbage or trash.

NOTE***i dont think there's a difference between garbage and trash***