No love for Ben Gordon?

Jimmy103 · Post #1 » by **Jimmy103** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:27 am

I've been a fan of him since UConn, according to the wiretap it's over in Chicago

What exactly are BYC contract rules? That whatever his contract is the Bulls can only take back half as much? But it counts fully towards the amount the Celtics would be taking back?

I think Ben Gordon could be an interesting backup/replacement for Ray Allen

Backup Rondo and Ray this season

bruno sundov · Post #2 » by **bruno sundov** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:24 am

He can't shoot well. So how is he a replacement for Ray Allen. His shot is streaky at best. I like nothing about his game except he does seem to hustle.

GuyClinch · Post #3 » by **GuyClinch** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:27 am

^^^ Let's not embarass ourselves. Ben Gordon is a career .416 three point shooter. He only "shoots" poorly because he takes alot of 3s. Ben Gordon is a fine shooter.

He is like a better version of Eddie House.. Problem with Gordon is his salary and the value he brings with it not his game.

Pete

3pt % · Post #4 » by **3pt %** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:26 pm

As I understand it, the only way Gordon gets the money he wants with the C's is by sign and trade. Who do we give up that Chicago wants?

Chicago is packed with guards, so I doubt they want any of ours. This means dealing big for small, so you have to know you are getting the better player if you are dealing from the Celtics position.. and again who are Chicago going to want?

Powe and Perks might get some interest for their beef which is lacking in Chi town, but to be honest I'd rather keep them.

Ben just wants too much money to fit with what the Celtics are doing.

Post #5 » by **Three34** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:59 pm

bruno sundov wrote:He can't shoot well. So how is he a replacement for Ray Allen. His shot is streaky at best. I like nothing about his game except he does seem to hustle.

I think you've confused Ben Gordon and Ryan Bowen. Easily done!

grantlongforpresident · Post #6 » by **grantlongforpresident** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:42 pm

bruno sundov wrote:He can't shoot well. So how is he a replacement for Ray Allen. His shot is streaky at best. I like nothing about his game except he does seem to hustle.

Can't shoot well?
Huh?

Have you seen him play?

celticfan42487 · Post #7 » by **celticfan42487** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:11 pm

He's a fast, athletic version of Eddie House. Or a rich man's Jamal Crawford.

That's not a cornerstone of a real great team but he demands that he is paid like one.

bruno sundov · Post #8 » by **bruno sundov** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:09 pm

The kid is a streaky shooter. Not consistant in the least. To say his 3pt% scures his shooting %, is ridiculios. He has no intermediary and has trouble finishing at the hoop, that is why he take so many 3's. I think those are all fair assesments of him.

I agree with celticfan42487 assesment of him. What does he do exceptionally well including shooting? Nothing really.

threrf23 · Post #9 » by **threrf23** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:10 pm

I like the rich man's Jamal Crawford comparison. When push comes to shove, he's an undersized 2.

In all likelihood, anyway, Chicago probably wouldn't consider trading him to us unless we were to trade KG, or to get a third team involved that would send a top frount court player their way.

I think he's probably a slightly better shooter than Ray currently is, but don't necessarily think he is the better all around player, nor do I think of him as the better team player. Of course he is much younger, so he could make some sense as a replacement for Ray if we could get him for that price.

But...who knows how the chemistry would work, and as is we likely at least have a shot at AI next offseason (similar to Ben Gordon, worse shooter better player) without giving anyone important up, and without disrupting our cap situation which is currently looking potentially solid during one if not two high profile FA classes.

So....no to Ben Gordon.

bruno sundov · Post #10 » by **bruno sundov** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:13 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/p ... yerId=2381

Here are his stats. I don't see anything from a 6' gurad that I want. Assist to TO are almost even. A career 41.5 fg%. Not good at all.

No way is he a better shoot than Ray Allen right now.

threrf23 · Post #11 » by **threrf23** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:55 pm

bruno sundov wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2381

Here are his stats. I don't see anything from a 6' gurad that I want. Assist to TO are almost even. A career 41.5 fg%. Not good at all.

No way is he a better shoot than Ray Allen right now.

In fairness to him, his TS% - a respectable measure of overall offensive efficiency (scoring wise) has shown solid enough improvement since he entered the league. This past season, TS% would show him to be his team's most efficient offensive option. In '06-07 he was the team's second most efficient option, beat out slightly by Andres Nocioni.

If you were to put him alongside KG, PP and Rondo, it is logical to assume his %s would rise considerably.

I'm not saying we should go after him - in fact I just said the opposite - but I just wanted to point that out.

GuyClinch · Post #12 » by **GuyClinch** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:03 pm

Here are his stats. I don't see anything from a 6' gurad that I want. Assist to TO are almost even. A career 41.5 fg%. Not good at all.

I don't know why you keep at it. Ben Gordon is a three point shooter - he is very good at it with a career average of above 41%. But you keep quoting overall shooting percentage. By that token Perkins is a great shooter. After all he has the highest shooting percentage in the NBA.

Of course that's just stupid. Anyone who knows ball knows Ben Gordon is a better shooter then Perkins.

Pete

mystir · Post #13 » by **mystir** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:05 pm

bruno sundov wrote:The kid is a streaky shooter. Not consistant in the least. To say his 3pt% scures his shooting %, is ridiculios. He has no intermediary and has trouble finishing at the hoop, that is why he take so many 3's. I think those are all fair assesments of him.

I agree with celticfan42487 assesment of him. What does he do exceptionally well including shooting? Nothing really.

Maybe its because he's shooting off the dribble so often? Any player is streaky that way. There was a time when Chicago was playing pick and roll basketball with Ben Wallace. When they finally traded Ben Wallace, they benched Gordon and reduced his minutes drastically. In 2007, when the Bulls had a half way decent system going.. Ben Gordon averaged nearly as many points per 36 minutes as Ray Allen at his best at the tender age of 23.

Post #14 » by **ParticleMan** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:19 pm

Pete nailed it, Ben is a fine player but not worth the money he thinks he is (or will eventually get). For the MLE? sure. But Ben will get more than that.

At the end of the day he's an undersized 2 who's a very good scorer. Nice, but I wouldn't trade Ray Allen for him. Ray is a better shooter and has legit 6-5 size. Ray was actually quite good defensively this year, often taking the opponent's best wing scorer and holding them in check. That's not something Ben Gordon can do. Last year Ray had an opponent's PER of 12.7, well above average. Ben's was an ungodly 18.7.

I think Ben Gordon would be an excellent 6th man on a quality team. But I don't see any team with Gordon as a starter winning a title. He just can't defend, and his shooting isn't so insanely good that he makes up for it on the other end. His best role would be Vinnie Johnson. But of course he wants to get paid like a quality starter.

So no thanks.

Bad-Thoma · Post #15 » by **Bad-Thoma** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:45 pm

ParticleMan wrote:Pete nailed it, Ben is a fine player but not worth the money he thinks he is (or will eventually get). For the MLE? sure. But Ben will get more than that.

At the end of the day he's an undersized 2 who's a very good scorer. Nice, but I wouldn't trade Ray Allen for him. Ray is a better shooter and has legit 6-5 size. Ray was actually quite good defensively this year, often taking the opponent's best wing scorer and holding them in check. That's not something Ben Gordon can do. Last year Ray had an opponent's PER of 12.7, well above average. Ben's was an ungodly 18.7.

I think Ben Gordon would be an excellent 6th man on a quality team. But I don't see any team with Gordon as a starter winning a title. He just can't defend, and his shooting isn't so insanely good that he makes up for it on the other end. His best role would be Vinnie Johnson. But of course he wants to get paid like a quality starter.

So no thanks.

QFT

Andrew McCeltic · Post #16 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:50 pm

I'm sure Ben Gordon will get plenty of love next summer when he's an unrestricted free agent and we can offer him the MLE.

rambo_ortega · Post #17 » by **rambo_ortega** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:17 am

this guy is a nice player and i would definitely want him here if given the chance. is it possible to s&t big baby,scal and bill walker plus a future 1st for him. let's just try and we might get a gasol, camby type of deal.

captain_cheapseats · Post #18 » by **captain_cheapseats** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:31 am

Agree with Particleman/Pete for the most part: he's a definitely a good player, but not worth what he'd be likely to cost.

Tricky Ricky · Post #19 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:02 pm

ParticleMan wrote:Pete nailed it, Ben is a fine player but not worth the money he thinks he is (or will eventually get). For the MLE? sure. But Ben will get more than that.

At the end of the day he's an undersized 2 who's a very good scorer. Nice, but I wouldn't trade Ray Allen for him. Ray is a better shooter and has legit 6-5 size. Ray was actually quite good defensively this year, often taking the opponent's best wing scorer and holding them in check. That's not something Ben Gordon can do. Last year Ray had an opponent's PER of 12.7, well above average. Ben's was an ungodly 18.7.

I think Ben Gordon would be an excellent 6th man on a quality team. But I don't see any team with Gordon as a starter winning a title. He just can't defend, and his shooting isn't so insanely good that he makes up for it on the other end. His best role would be Vinnie Johnson. But of course he wants to get paid like a quality starter.

So no thanks.

What he said

bruno sundov · Post #20 » by **bruno sundov** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:05 pm

GuyClinch wrote:
Here are his stats. I don't see anything from a 6' gurad that I want. Assist to TO are almost even. A career 41.5 fg%. Not good at all.

I don't know why you keep at it. Ben Gordon is a three point shooter - he is very good at it with a career average of above 41%. But you keep quoting overall shooting percentage. By that token Perkins is a great shooter. After all he has the highest shooting percentage in the NBA.

Of course that's just stupid. Anyone who knows ball knows Ben Gordon is a better shooter then Perkins.

Pete

That argument is weak at best. What do your eyes tell you. Mine tell me that BG can't finish at the rim in traffic and has no inbewteen game. I know for some it is hard to understand that BG isn't great, or even good. He is above average at best.

I keep at it because people like yourslef are missing the big picture. The kid is a 6' and not a good one at that. Yeah he can nail the 3!!! So could Tony Delk. What is your point the kid is not a good shooter, from the 3 point line all the way to the basket. What is so hard about that?