Backups at C, SF and SG up in Air

[Jammer]

I can't think of another defending champion team where the backups at 3 positions, and possibly 4, could be different on opening night versus when the playoffs start.

About the only thing that is certain for the 2009 Celtics is the starting lineup,
and that Eddie House is the backup point guard.

Center will again be manned by committee, with the undersized, athletically challenged Glen Davis competing against the 6' 11", but weak on the block, Patrick O'Bryant.
Who will win out as primary backup?? Or, will Leon Powe or Brian Scalabrine get the job?

Power Forward is clearer initially, with Leon Powe the primary backup, with Brian Scalabrine perhaps better suited for matchups with Dirk Nowitzski, Rasheed Wallace, and Chris Bosh. But Darius Miles, if he were to return to his peak form, would be a viable backup to Kevin Garnett.

Small Forward is a complete guess, with Darius Miles likely having the inside track, until Bill Walker can prove otherwise. But J. R. Giddens and Tony Allen will try to impress Doc to get time here.

And although Tony Allen may start the season as Ray Allen's primary backup, there is no guarantee that Tony will finish the season in that role.
23 year old rookie J. R. Giddens will do his best to prove that he deserves court time.

This will be an exciting battle between these gladiators for the role of FIRST BACKUP.

C: Davis / O'Bryant / Powe / Scalabrine

PF: Powe / Miles / Scalabrine

SF: Miles / Walker / Giddens / Tony Allen

SG: Tony Allen / J. R. Giddens

Completely up in the air who wins out at the end of the season.

Let's hope that at least two of Miles, Walker and Giddens are the real deal.

What I think this uncertainty demonstrates is that the most important move that the Celtics can make before the playoffs would be to convince 42 year old Dikembe Mutombo or soon to be 39 year old Alonzo Mourning to sign up for one last campaign where they can finish the last 6 minutes of games, and be limited to 6 minutes per half.

Either Mourning or Mutombo would be such a HUGE upgrade over
Davis / O'Bryant or Powe at center
that it would virtually assure the Celtics of repeating
(as long as everyone else is healthy).

[Dave_From_NB]

Perhaps it is an oversight, but it's interesting you don't have Davis in the mix as backup PF.

It'll be interesting to find out what Davis becomes this season. If he's got himself in better shape, then the only physical feature he had which put him in the mix at Center (his mass) is somewhat lost, and unless he gains a lot of vertical leap then it's hard to view him as much of a Center. Especially as you suggest if a vet is signed late in the season.

I'm not sure Doc is particularly going to designate primary backups, he stayed away from that in the reg season last year. Even understanding the playoff rotation isn't something I think we (fans) knew about until after the first game was finished.

[Rocky5000]

I'm almost positive that Tony will be the primary backup SG and SF for the season. When he's backing up Paul, he'll likely be playing with Ray and vice versa.

[Jammer]

Perhaps it is an oversight, but it's interesting you don't have Davis in the mix as backup PF.

I omitted Glen Davis because I consider Leon Powe the better Power Forward, so why include Davis in the mix. Scal, due to his length on the other hand, can at least deal with Nowitski, Bosh and Rasheed Wallace.

It'll be interesting to find out what Davis becomes this season.

.. I'm not sure Doc is going to designate primary backups.
Even understanding the playoff rotation isn't something I think we (fans) knew about until after the first game was finished.

I think what Doc did all year was play who was on, or who was working out. So, if Eddie House was off, he got yanked. Ditto for Rondo. Posey at least knew not to shoot when he was off, which is something Tony practiced late in the year and the playoffs. Pretty amazing that Tony played 65 minutes in the playoffs with only 1 turnover, but, unfortunately, he only had 3 rebounds, 3 assists and 20 points in those 65 minutes. So, yeah, I think Doc will be quick to pull Leon, Davis, O'Bryant, whoever on their off days. It just means that rookies like Giddens and Walker, and newcomer Darius Miles, will get their chance.

[Jammer]

I'm almost positive that Tony will be the primary backup SG and SF for the season. When he's backing up Paul, he'll likely be playing with Ray and vice versa.

Danny and Doc have publicly said that Tony will be the new 6th man.

Whether Tony can keep that role is another story.

Last year, it was fairly early in the season when Doc came out and said that James Posey was the Celtics 6th man, and Eddie House was the Celtics 7th man. This year, they came out right when Tony was signed and said that he was the 6th man.

Giddens, though, may have better offensive skills than Tony Allen.
Whether Giddens has Tony's quicks may be the determining factor there,
although sometimes skills, like a shot and proper court positioning, can offset quicks.

Walker is just bigger, like Miles.

Tony's pre-draft height was 6' 3.5 inches without shoes, so he's 6' 5" with shoes.

Darius Miles, from what I've seen of him, seems like 6' 7.5 inches without shoes, or 6' 9" w/shoes.

Walker is also bigger than Tony, although I don't know by how much. Walker is listed at 6' 6", and my suspicion is that he is pretty close to that. Against certain players, that type of size difference matters (i.e. LeBron James).

[aboubata]

the thing that worries me is Doc.
I know I know he did well last season, but I still think he can't figure out when a young player is ready until something bad happens (another player get injured).

Plus I hope the fans will be ok with some rookies mistakes that might cost us a few games but prepare them for the playoffs.

[armageddon]

I don't think that Miles will have the quickness to play SF anymore which isn't a bad thing. He's not the skinny HS draftee anymore, he's filled out and put on weight along with probably losing his quickness from the surgery and inactiveness so I'm envisioning him more as a PF. He's 6-9 and his offense is fifteen feet and in. He's not a 3-pt shooter.

[GuyClinch]

If Miles is at all healthy he is quicker then Posey. He can play SF then. It's a trade off - at any position. Sure you will be slower then some smaller player but then you can score inside against them.

Pete

[armageddon]

And how do you know who is quicker/faster. Miles is coming off of a "career ending" knee injury and had to use weight loss pills to drop enough weight to even begin to workout. He may need the whole year just to recover, he may never recover.
Posey today is slower than Miles yesterday, but Posey has 3-pt range, Miles doesn't, and I think that means more to Doc than quickness as far as who plays sf. Personally, I don't see Miles ever playing sf again due to his game and his physical conditions but if he does good for us. I have no problem seeing at pf where he can be useful at stretching the defense in a pf sort of way.
Basically we have no idea what Miles will contribute nor if can even play.

[Jammer]

Armageddon:

I wrote some pretty critical statements about Miles as a small forward a few days ago. Basically said his jump shot was ugly as sh*t, and that he was limited to operating within 10 feet of the basket.

One of the moderators from the Portland board came by to say that Miles now has a jump shot out to 15 feet (I'll believe it when he makes it consistently, I still remember Miles Clipper days when the standard defense for Miles was to lay off him 8 to 10 feet, effectively zoning the other 4 men - I don't think Doc will let that happen, but we'll see if he can make a shot past 4 feet).

Anyway, same with his athleticism. The old Miles needed it to function, that explosive, quick, high finish. Not much touch, but within a few feet of the basket he didn't need it.

Anyway, the Boston papers and NBA.com/Celtics website have been billing Miles as a "swingman", so someone has the notion that the kid can play SF. Let us pray.

[buckner1976]

I can't think of another defending champion team where the backups at 3 positions, and possibly 4, could be different on opening night versus when the playoffs start.

About the only thing that is certain for the 2009 Celtics is the starting lineup,
and that Eddie House is the backup point guard.

Center will again be manned by committee, with the undersized, athletically challenged Glen Davis competing against the 6' 11", but weak on the block, Patrick O'Bryant.
Who will win out as primary backup?? Or, will Leon Powe or Brian Scalabrine get the job?

Power Forward is clearer initially, with Leon Powe the primary backup, with Brian Scalabrine perhaps better suited for matchups with Dirk Nowitzski, Rasheed Wallace, and Chris Bosh. But Darius Miles, if he were to return to his peak form, would be a viable backup to Kevin Garnett.

Small Forward is a complete guess, with Darius Miles likely having the inside track, until Bill Walker can prove otherwise. But J. R. Giddens and Tony Allen will try to impress Doc to get time here.

And although Tony Allen may start the season as Ray Allen's primary backup, there is no guarantee that Tony will finish the season in that role.
23 year old rookie J. R. Giddens will do his best to prove that he deserves court time.

This will be an exciting battle between these gladiators for the role of FIRST BACKUP.

C: Davis / O'Bryant / Powe / Scalabrine

PF: Powe / Miles / Scalabrine

SF: Miles / Walker / Giddens / Tony Allen

SG: Tony Allen / J. R. Giddens

Completely up in the air who wins out at the end of the season.

Let's hope that at least two of Miles, Walker and Giddens are the real deal.

What I think this uncertainty demonstrates is that the most important move that the Celtics can make before the playoffs would be to convince 42 year old Dikembe Mutombo or soon to be 39 year old Alonzo Mourning to sign up for one last campaign where they can finish the last 6 minutes of games, and be limited to 6 minutes per half.

Either Mourning or Mutombo would be such a HUGE upgrade over
Davis / O'Bryant or Powe at center
that it would virtually assure the Celtics of repeating
(as long as everyone else is healthy).

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought a guy coming off a supposed career ending inury who hasn't played the game in two years and hasn't even made the team nor been assured a roster spot would actually have the inside track on anything.

[Jammer]

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought a guy coming off a supposed career ending inury who hasn't played the game in two years and hasn't even made the team nor been assured a roster spot would actually have the inside track on anything.

Nor did a lot of us skeptics.

When Danny Ainge essentially said that he considered Miles recovered from his injury, it put it in a different light.

Amare Stoudamire had the same injury, he wasn't expected to return to form, but did.

[GuyClinch]

And how do you know who is quicker/faster. Miles is coming off of a "career ending" knee injury and had to use weight loss pills to drop enough weight to even begin to workout. He may need the whole year just to recover, he may never recover.

I don't know - I said IF HE IS HEALTHY. <g> Anyway Doc is going to have to adjust. Danny hasn't left him with any three point shooters out there outside of Paul. It's a trade off - Danny wanted to get more athletic and instead of shooting spot up 3's with our backup SF the team will need to create off the dribble or take it inside.

There is more then one way to skin a cat..

Pete

[GuyClinch]

Anyway, the Boston papers and NBA.com/Celtics website have been billing Miles as a "swingman", so someone has the notion that the kid can play SF. Let us pray.

Do we really need prayers with Bill Walker, Tony Allen, and JR Giddens on the team? We are talking about 10-15 minutes out of that spot at most. TA will probably eat up ALL of Pierces left over minutes and ALL of RA's.

I think there is way to much gnashing about the bench in the off-season.

[buckner1976]

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought a guy coming off a supposed career ending inury who hasn't played the game in two years and hasn't even made the team nor been assured a roster spot would actually have the inside track on anything.

Nor did a lot of us skeptics.

When Danny Ainge essentially said that he considered Miles recovered from his injury, it put it in a different light.

Amare Stoudamire had the same injury, he wasn't expected to return to form, but did.

Recovering from an injury that put you out for 2 years is one thing. Being in "NBA game shape" is another which Danny essentially did NOT say. And if he was convinced Miles was ready to contribute consistently for this team he wouldn't have given him a non-guaranteed contract that was for all intents and purposes a 2-month tryout to make the squad. Danny can be impressed that Miles is moving around and in good health considering his previous diagnosis. But that's a completely separate matter from being able to prove yourself on the court in game-time circumstances. Miles has NOT made this team yet. Until proven further in training camp against guys that have been playing for a while that his knee and his conditioning is at NBA speed I think you are really fooling yourself.

[buckner1976]

And how do you know who is quicker/faster. Miles is coming off of a "career ending" knee injury and had to use weight loss pills to drop enough weight to even begin to workout. He may need the whole year just to recover, he may never recover.

I don't know - I said IF HE IS HEALTHY. <g> Anyway Doc is going to have to adjust. Danny hasn't left him with any three point shooters out there outside of Paul. It's a trade off - Danny wanted to get more athletic and instead of shooting spot up 3's with our backup SF the team will need to create off the dribble or take it inside.

There is more then one way to skin a cat..

Pete

And right now that "healthy" thing needs to be proven first at game speed before it can be trusted. A workout with a couple of dunks is one thing. Full speed with contact not to mention whether what skills he did have before he got injured are even there. I think there are a lot more questions with Miles than people realize. He is certainly no lock whatsoever to make this roster right now.

[humblebum]

I believe that the bench is a whole lot more stable than people believe. As a separate point, Doc tends to use players situationally throughout the season anyways so what we really should be looking at are the various skillsets that Doc has to play with on the bench, as well as in the starting lineup.

Instant offense off the bench: Eddie House, Leon Powe
Tough physical defense: Tony Allen, Glen Davis
Length and mobility: Darius Miles (if he makes the team), Scalabrine (against mobile, tall 4's), and POB

In all honesty I believe that out of that group you have a lot of solid options situationally... as well as IMO 4 players who can function as rotation type subs (Eddie, Leon, Tony, Glen).

I concur with the poster who believes that Tony is going to, at least, get the chance to take all of the backup minutes behind Ray and Paul. And being a Tony Allen believer I'd say that he's going to deliver in a big way in that role as a double digit scorer, a solid rebounder, and overall defense/energy player.

At Center, Davis is going to command a lot of early season minutes but O'Bryant, again, will have a situational role when length is needed.

[armageddon]

Interesting comment from Powe on last night's interview that Miles is looking good.....