A note on any Leon Powe trade ideas or rumors

[Fencer reregistered]

Doc Rivers is on record as thinking KG shouldn't be played more than 33 minutes per game.

In fact, KG averaged under 33 minutes/game last season.

Since KG averaged under 35 minutes/game in losses last season, that number probably wasn't highly affected by blowouts.

KG did play 38 minutes/game in the playoffs, which seems to be where Doc capped things.

My point is that the job of backup PF is a 15 min/game role in the regular season and a 10 min/game role in the playoffs, even before we consider that Garnett is getting to an age range where he's apt to be less of an iron man. I.e., backup PF is far from a trivial job.

That said, it's not as important as backup center, where Perk has played >53 games once in his career and >25 minutes/game zero times.

[Bad-Thoma]

Here's my take... Leon will be here, and will have a bigger role this year. That said, I'm confident that it would take some serious value to get Danny to part with Leon, who has a great combination of age, attitude, talent, and contract status. If by some slim chance he was traded we'd probably be getting something pretty damned good in return. Coming off a championship year with the same core intact we don't need to make moves, so it probably would take a pretty healthy offering to pry someone like Leon away. Which makes rumors like Powe in a trade for Hunter seem ridiculous to me, why make changes unless they obviously improve the team?

[mrautobahn]

I think one poster raised the possibility that Perk may not be ready to play because of lingering shoulder injury... (note: this isn't a fact... just a WAG so please don't flame me...)

If that was true... then the Celtics only have POB as the center and quite frankly... that guy is a question mark so far in his career...

But I prefer to keep Powe in any event... and trade BBD...

[sully00]

I just don't see the Leon Powe you all saw. I like him but I still think he is going to be a situational player. He closed out the regular season well, but the guy was essentially yanked out of the rotation after the ATL series, sure he had that nice game against the Lakers but that is it.

I would be fine with keeping Leon forever if we could sign him for 2.5-3 mil a year but I don't think he is going to settle for that money or the role available.

As far as value I think first Leon's may be higher now than ever and beyond that the position is what affects his value to the team. As Fencer points out we have a void at the Center position that Leon can't fill. I question whether he can lock up the back up PF spot full time because of the size disadvantage he has and this teams focus on defense. Conversely to a team that doesn't have an HOF PF and is looking for a guy to split the job and is either real strong at the 5 or less focused on defense his production would have more value.

I think we can get by with what we have backing up the 4/5 spots without Leon, I am not convinced he is an 15-18mpg 82 game guy on this team anyhow. While the upside of a guy like Hunter isn't as exciting the difference is you are talking about catcher vs first base/DH. While we have guys who can play some center we don't have anyone that we can confidently play 25-30 mpg if Perk goes down.

Hunter has done it and with similiar production to Perkins if not the stout defense.

This team is not likely to re-sign Leon Powe at least at any kind of significant money, he is here for this year and next if he can't get a contract in FA. So you have to evaluate what he means to the team this year and maybe next, and let go of what he might become if he had a bigger role because it just isn't going to happen here.

[sam_I_am]

I like Leon. I admire his character and would love to see him stay a Celtic for his whole career. However, he can be replaced with a decent end of first round pick where more valuable players like Perkins and Anderson Varejao to name a few can be had. There really is no reason to overpay for him at all. He already is NBA ready and there isn't much development that needs to happen or will happen other than getting savvier. If you like what you see that is probably what you will get for the rest of his career plus experience.

Given his injury history it is doubtful he will return to the talent level/promise he had in high school but if he does then that would change the equation.

[hiphop1]

I love Leon as a player and would trade him for Pryz.

[sully00]

I want to add something else that is a big part of the equation at least for me, that is Scal. If Danny doesn't do something like this and Perk goes down we are staring straight down the barrell of 20-30 mpg of Scal at friggin center. I love Doc as much as anyone on this board but every coach has his quirks and one of his quirk is he loves big tall white guys who can shoot the 3 and do what they are told. I want to believe he would go to POB or Baby or go small with Powe or Miles. But I just know that he is going to think man Scal knows his rotations and can stretch the floor.

The other thing that is non starter is all this trade Big Baby instead, nobody is going to go for that. It is on par with expecting MINN to take Powe instead of Gomes last year. You can at least pass Powe of as a back up PF Baby isn't even that yet.

[Celtics_85]

To trade him in the Pryzbilla scenerio is fine, but I don't see it in the Hunter scenerio unless we were getting back Balkman also.

[sully00]

There is no Pryzbilla senario. At least per this rumor POR said no and beyond that Jammer made the point that the salaries don't jive. We would have to use Giddens in the deal in a 4 for 1 senario and while POR likely has to clear Pryz's salary at some point they would probably have to cut Scal (no big loss) and Pruitt or one of their own players as they don't have any minimum salary guys to include coming back. Even at that Pryz has a trade kicker.

[humblebum]

Hey, I like Leon Powe but it's true, he simply is not a great fit on this roster given the strength we have in our starting PF. Glen Davis, though unproven is actually a better fit alongside Garnett given his bullish strength and solid defensive post positioning. Powe is easily the more productive player but it seems that he has more value as a trade chip than as an actual player for the Celtics, thus it makes a whole lot of sense to move him to strength a position with more questions marks around it, a la Center.

The problem is simply that in terms of an exchange of value the deal for Steven Hunter is god awful. What type of assurances to we have that Hunter can even stay healthy for a season after dealing with injuries? What effect does his 45% FT shooting have on this team? Does he complement KG any better than a guy like Powe, or Davis, or O'Bryant? There are just a lot of questions marks and it doesn't make sense to make a move just to make a move.

Now if Doc and Danny are sold on Hunter as a player, which IMO doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility, they would still have to feel that Hunter's value > Powe's, Scal's value (Pruitt is an afterthought IMO). To me that just seems unlikely given the nature of Hunter's game and his recent history of injury.

[sully00]

To trade him in the Pryzbilla scenerio is fine, but I don't see it in the Hunter scenerio unless we were getting back Balkman also.

I don't think Balkman could make this team, he is like Miles without the 12-14 ppg. I don't think Ainge would take him on a guaranteed contract.

[GregB]

To trade him in the Pryzbilla scenerio is fine, but I don't see it in the Hunter scenerio unless we were getting back Balkman also.

I don't think Balkman could make this team, he is like Miles without the 12-14 ppg. I don't think Ainge would take him on a guaranteed contract.

Exactly,

The only way the Denver situation works for me is if we get a Lottery Protected First. Scal and Hunters contracts are about equal. But by giving up Powe and Pruitt. We definitely give up a lot more talent without Denver giving us something in return.

[ddb]

Leon Powe would dump all over Steven Hunter. You have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME WITH THIS TRADE RUMOR! Clearly many of you know nothing about basketball.
When healthy. Leon Powe is a machine. He's been doubted since coming into this league. He's the perfect bench guy for us. Who cares if he's 2 inches shorter then a classic c/pf. The guy gets it done.

If he's traded i'll be PISSED. But i give Ainge more credit then that. I highly doubt he would deal Powe.

[Rocky5000]

Like I've said before, if you're going to trade Leon, trade him somewhere he can start. He has the game of an NBA starter, and has much more value when he's traded as such and not as a bench player.

[humblebum]

ddb, I understand your feelings about Powe but it should be clear to most that a good backup Center is more valuable than a really good backup PF. That has to do with the general importance of the Center position as well as the makeup of the Celtics roster specifically. Powe simply cannot impact the course of a season to the same extent as a good PF-C could even if Powe were the better individual player. So in essence, it seems that Powe has more value as a trade chip than he does as an actual roster guy.

For instance, Powe, though very talented individually, simply cannot match up effectively against Gasol-Bynum or Rasheed-Mcdyess or Wallace-Ilgauskas. Powe gives up too much size and thus can be easily dominated by longer, bigger offensive players. That is what counts... can Powe be a difference maker against our toughest competitors, not how he does against the other teams around the league. Now situationally Powe is possibly one of the best bench guys in the league because he is uber productive in short minutes. There IS a lot of value to Leon Powe even though he truly is a situational player. That's why you can't trade him for a Steven Hunter but if you can get a rotation level Center (vs. a situational guy) a la Pryzbilla or Varejao for example, you have to make the move. It just makes it so that your getting the most value out of your roster.

[Ortho Stice]

Our C spot is a concern right now and we're pretty strong at the backup PF spot so, after the recent success he's had in the Finals, I'd try to trade Powe, and maybe some other enticing assets for a decent backup C. The Steven Hunter rumor has me dreaming of the C's somehow getting Linas Kleiza too, which would make the C's pretty solid at every position.

[MVP16]

Powe is being way underrated by some fans IMO. His per minute production has been pretty good for both of his seasons in the league. He draws fouls at an incredible rate. Some say that he is too short for the pf position but he is pretty much the same height as West/Boozer. The reason he struggles right now against taller players is that his game is a little too one dimensional. Most of his points come from around the hoop. Boozer also struggled scoring points inside against LA.

Powe has the tools to be a very good scoring pf IMO...something like 17 points 9 rebounds type of player. He gets to the line at an incredible rate which is a very good sign for scorers. Powe also gets a good number of offensive rebounds which is also a good sign that he can put up high scoring numbers. He needs to improve his shooting and ball handling though and I don't see why he can't. By all accounts he is one of the hardest workers in the league and already posseses some range.

People look at Powe's age and see that he is almost 25 years old and that he is close to his peak but that's no true. He is entering just the 3rd year in the league and missed a large part of development due to his knee injuries. He showed signs of regaining some of his explosiveness last year.

The argument that we have KG so we don't need Powe is weak as well. Besides KG, Powe is the only other big man who can put up points. If we trade Powe for a stiff center and KG gets injured, our frontcourt would be offensively inept. Moreover, there are plenty of minutes for Powe. As KG gets older he'll play less minutes and less games. Powe can easily get 20 minutes off the bench this year. Figuring that he was our leading scorer off the bench last year even though he was played sparingly the first few months, and we lost Posey, it would be a bad idea to trade possibly our 6th man for a guy whose best skill is his height.

[Collinto]

If, IF, the C's are looking at using Powe in a 2 for 1 trade scenerio, I think that is less an indictment of Powe and more: 1. A vote of confidence for BBD; 2. trading the one of two similar players who has trade value; 3. filling a need at the C position; 4. shows the C's unwillingness to give Powe a big salary next summer.

What I can't understand is why very few have trust in Pruitt (warranted), but seem to accept POB as an acceptable back up...its baffling to me.

[armageddon]

Some you guys are really missing the boat on Leon. You absolutely need guys off the bench that make an instant impact and that's Leon. He scores, he rebound, he hustles, he moves people around, he gets to the free throw line. Did I mention that he gets to the free throw line, alot. This not only gives the starters a rest, playing minutes wise, but really slows down the game to provide longer breaks. It also gets the opposing started in foul trouble. Give me 5 guys who constantly draw fouls and I'll win all the time. Powe's worth 5 mill a year to this team. Also, when KG gets hurt, and he will again, Powe will provide enough to keep the team winning.
Winning this year is more important than winning next year. Why the heck would Danny move Leon or Davis, they will both contribute now. Come trading deadline or next offseason, things will shake out. A lot also depends on Miles and Walker. Won't it be nice to play with big lineups frequently for a change - maybe a little Davis, Walker, Miles at SF to pummel the boards occasionally.
Leon still hasn't reached his ceiling, give it time to play out.

[humblebum]

Based on what MVP and Armageddon are saying the argument to trade Powe becomes stronger. The reality is that Powe is a very valuable player individually. His potential in the league is closer to a 20-25 MPG type role where he can put of the 10+ pts and 7+ boards. The fact is though that that role simply doesn't exist in Boston. Thus he has more value to someone else than he does for us.