Not looking good for either Miles or Giddens in Boston

[campybatman]

Either Miles is the odd man out or Giddens goes to NBDL. So, I'm guessing that Cassell will be in an uniform after all. I still have a feeling Pruitt could be dealt before the trading deadline or he and Davis both.

Neither Darius Miles nor rookie J.R. Giddens played Friday night. That’s not a good sign for either player - especially the non-guaranteed Miles - considering that Rivers is now working his rotation players into regular-season form.

Rivers acknowledged that he may cut a player soon from his 16-man roster, though the deadline is not until Oct. 27.

Asked if he had learned enough about Miles, Rivers chose to speak of the group at the end of his bench instead.

“We’re still learning about three or four guys,” Rivers said. “But someone is not going to make this team who is good enough to make an NBA roster. It’s not an easy decision, but I would like to do it sooner than later.

“I’m not sure yet, honestly. We could go to the last day, but I want to give someone a chance (to sign with another team) when we make the decision.”

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/bask ... position=1

[cloverleaf]

Even if Miles goes, which is looking likely, Giddens doesn't make the active 12. The question is whether they think he'll learn more better up or down. My guess is down.

[GregB]

Good luck Darius.

[campybatman]

I can't say I'll be surprised if it's indeed Miles. When I'd read about him being used as a power forward as oppose to a small forward. I didn't believe that was a good sign for some reason.

Interesting comments from Miles last week. Wasn't shooting and defense his two biggest knocks?

"Consistency and defense is all I think about," he said following back-to-back preseason games last weekend. "With this defense, I've got to be consistent. The offense, I really don't care about to be totally real, because I'm not in that position here. I used to be in that position where I was a one or two option. I'm not a one or two option here. I'm not any kind of option on this team. The defensive end is where they want me to do it, and that's what I want to do."

"I'm just happy and blessed to be in this position," he said. "Whether it's for two months, or whether it's for a whole season, I want to show every single day I'm with the team, every time I'm on the court, that defense is what I will concentrate on. That's what I feel will make me make this team."

http://www.boston.com/sports/ot/2008/10 ... y_the.html

[canman1971]

Giddens isn't getting cut, so the title is misleading. He is on his rookie contract and they would never have signed him if they had no plans for him. That is not how owners make money. He may end up in the NBDL, but Ainge has shown a preference to keep the guy around as they can monitor them more closely, but short stints, like Pruitt certainly is not out of the question. Miles, however, I feel is as good as gone, unless they see something in practice that indicates he'll be useful down the road, but he sure hasn't shown anything in games, but neither has Cassell, so we shall see. It is pretty funny though our biggest dilemma is who will be the 15th guy, who probably won't play much anyway.

[chakdaddy]

I'd been thinking for some time that the decent showings of O'Bryant and to a greater extent Walker would force Miles off the roster.

[campybatman]

The thread's title is fine. Nowhere did I nor the title of the thread nor anywhere in the excerpt did the writer imply Giddens will or could be cut. How often is a first round selection cut?

I read "someone" as referring to Miles by Rivers.

Not looking good for Giddens as in he could begin the season heading to the NBDL. That's what I'd written and nothing else about him.

[canman1971]

The thread's title is fine. Nowhere did I nor the title of the thread nor anywhere in the excerpt did the writer imply Giddens will or could be cut. How often is a first round selection cut?

I read "someone" as referring to Miles by Rivers.

Not looking good for Giddens as in he could begin the season heading to the NBDL. That's what I'd written and nothing else about him.

I guess I look at things differently. I don't think a rookie on a championship team going to the NBDL as "not looking good" It is not a bad thing, I actually would expect him to go their for a bit. By you saying "not looking good" many will think it means being cut, which is not good. Going to the NBDL is probably expected by most, therefore it is neither good or bad.

[threrf23]

I still have a feeling Pruitt could be dealt before the trading deadline or he and Davis both.

IMO we can't trade Baby without getting a fairly solid C back in return. Baby filled in nicely @ C at times last season, and has a big enough physique to be a sufficent presence for us down low. Powe lacks the necessary physique, and POB IMO clearly isn't ready to contribute, at least as a starting C if Perk goes down. His physique/strength is too underdeveloped, and his instincts look off to me as well. Hopefully I am wrong about him, but,

I would be curious to know more about why DMiles isn't getting so many minutes. Health-related would be a logical guess, although I hope thats not the case. He is expected to improve as the season goes on, so if the reason is performance related, thats not necessarily a bad thing, and the fact he hasn't been played much could actually indicate we have already decided that he will be a part of our team next year. But Doc's quote, to me, indicates that Miles is actually the odd man out..."But someone is not going to make this team who is good enough to make an NBA roster"....Danny IMO would not be willing to cut guys like POB or Giddens because he likes to get assets for them, and he's not going to cut Scal who has one of our few really tradeable salaries (at least next year) and who is a great guy to have around the locker room and on the bench.

[Celtsfan1980]

Is it Rivers or Ainge who makes the decision regarding cuts? I thought it was Ainge, but it looks like that article is implying Rivers.

[Jammer]

1. It's a bit early to make a judgement on Giddens (or Walker).

2. Miles had to know when he signed that he would be competing against:

- Giddens and Walker for last Active Wing

- Scal and Davis for last Active Big

When Miles signed, he knew who the five starters were, and he also knew

that Tony Allen would be backup Wing (SF and SG) = 6th man,
Eddie House would be backup PG (7th man),
Powe would be 8th man (post defender),
and 0'Bryant 9th man.

At least, he would have known if his agent did his job.

The 10th to 12th spots were reserved for a Guard, Wing and one more Big.

Pruitt is the 5th Guard (= 10th man),
with Cassell LIKELY Inactive except if Rondo, House or Gabe is out;

Giddens and Walker will battle for the ACTIVE SF spot behind Tony Allen (=11th man),

and Scal and Glen Davis will be an opponent based decision for the last active Big (=12th man).

Scal will probably be active against Cleveland on opening night, Holy crap.

Think about it, Miles probably won't make the team, but Scal is probably going to be ACTIVE
(over Glen Davis) against Cleveland on the 28th. Please Darius, don't commit suicide on this call.

But he should have known that it would come down to this when he came in.

He had to beat out Giddens AND Walker to make the ACTIVE Wing spot,
OR beat out Scal AND Davis to get the ACTIVE BIg spot (12th man).

He didn't, obviously.

But with Miles physical talent, and with a better basketball IQ and dedication to improvement,
I thought that Miles would have challenged Davis AND Scal for the last active BIG spot. But, besides physical talent, it does come down to basketball IQ and commitment to improve your game.

Scal has a high BBall IQ, knows the plays, executes his job, and at least Scal requires someone to guard him on the perimeter,
even if he's 4-20 from the field in pre-season.

****

[TheSheriff]

I would be surprised if Giddens wasn't in the D league and Miles isn't cut.

The Active roster, i expect, will be:
KP
PP
KG
Ray
Tony
RR
House
O'Bryant
Powe
Pruitt
BB Davis
Sam

leaving Giddens, Scal, and Bill Walker inactive
It is possible that Bill Walker or Scal could be active and BB, Pruitt, or Sam could be inactive.
But Giddens is the 14th man on this roster.

Is it Rivers or Ainge who makes the decision regarding cuts? I thought it was Ainge, but it looks like that article is implying Rivers.

It is Danny. Just like GMs in baseball decide which players make a roster at the end of spring training, Danny will decide who to cut. Reporters are always mistakenly attributing personal decisions to coaches.

[sully00]

Obviously Miles is the one guy Boston can cut and it not cost them any money. That said a lack of mins right now isn't shocking and means he is done here. He has plenty of experience and no matter how many mins he got in the preseason he is going to sit out 10 games before he can go so he is not going to be in game shape anyhow. Why build him up to shut him down especially with the injury?

I am not super optimistic about Giddens future in Boston but just being cut would be a bit much. While money is money this team is about winning a championship, not cost control or trade assets. Doc controls the roster and now he likely does it even more than previously he is the 4th highest paid person in the organization.

I think that Ainge will look hard for a 2 for 1 to get Scal out of here and barring that it will likely come down to Scal and Miles.

[campybatman]

I would say, Giddens, Cassell and Scalabrine begin on the inactive list with Giddens going to the NBDL. Ultimately, I see either Giddens or Scalabrine as a regularly listed inactive player all season. But, Scalabrine and Cassell could play due to injuries.

The minimal twelve active players for Boston will likely be: Pierce, Garnett, (Ray) Allen, Rondo, Perkins, House, (Tony) Allen, Powe, Davis, O'Bryant, Walker and Pruitt.

One player still must be removed from the sixteen players. I remain convinced that Miles could be the subtraction.

In the event that Miles shockingly makes the team, your inactive list could possibly be Miles (ten-game suspension), Giddens (NBDL) and Scalabrine. So, it's imperative for Cassell to be named an assistant coach rather than a player seeing as his contract is guaranteed. But, I think Ainge likes the flexibility he affords Rivers with having an emergency point guard in veteran Cassell behind Pruitt. Makes sense. While retaining Miles doesn't... You've Powe behind Garnett and Walker behind Pierce. Not to mention, Tony could see time at the three in a smaller lineup off the bench with Walker at the four like G. Wallace is at times with the Bobcats.

Understanding how rosters are set under the new CBA
Under the new Collective Bargaining Agreement, each team is required to carry 12 players on its active list and at least one player on its inactive list. Teams may have a maximum of three players on its inactive list, which includes any players sent to the NBA Development League.

http://www.nba.com/news/inactive_rules_0506.html

Each team is required to carry 12 players on its active list and one player on its inactive list (which will replace the injured list). Teams may have a maximum of three players on their inactive list (subject to hardship rules, which will apply in the event that a team with three injured players on its inactive list has a fourth player that suffers an injury). Players sent to the NBA Development League (see below) will continue to count on a team’s inactive list.

The league has agreed to guarantee that, on a league-wide basis, teams will maintain an average roster size of 14 players over the course of the season.

http://www.nba.com/news/cba_summary_050804.html

Section 1. Active Roster Size.
Each Team agrees to have twelve (12) players on its Active List and to have a minimum of eight (8) players on the bench for all Regular Season games. Notwithstanding the foregoing, any Team may from time to time as appropriate, but for no more than two (2) consecutive weeks at a time during the Regular Season, have eleven (11) players on its Active List.


Section 2. Inactive Roster Size.
Each Team agrees to have one (1) player on its Inactive List for all Regular Season games. Notwithstanding the foregoing, any Team may from time to time as appropriate, but for no more than two (2) consecutive weeks at any time during the Regular Season, have no players on its Inactive List.



Section 3. Minimum League-Wide Roster.
(a) For each Regular Season covered by this Agreement, NBA Teams shall, in the aggregate, employ an average of no less than fourteen (14) players per Team.

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-XXIX.php

[campybatman]

But Doc's quote, to me, indicates that Miles is actually the odd man out..."But someone is not going to make this team who is good enough to make an NBA roster"....Danny IMO would not be willing to cut guys like POB or Giddens because he likes to get assets for them, and he's not going to cut Scal who has one of our few really tradeable salaries (at least next year) and who is a great guy to have around the locker room and on the bench.

Thank you.

I concur. The writing's on the wall.

[GonzoLays]

Giddens isn't getting cut, so the title is misleading. He is on his rookie contract and they would never have signed him if they had no plans for him. That is not how owners make money. He may end up in the NBDL, but Ainge has shown a preference to keep the guy around as they can monitor them more closely, but short stints, like Pruitt certainly is not out of the question.

Good grief, canman, Giddens was only given a two-year deal for 1.6 millions total. It's not like the team has a lot invested in this guy. If they cut him, he is about as cheap as a cut as you can get in the NBA. From Grousbeck's previous actions, I highly doubt he is going to advocate keeping Giddens over Miles because of his 800,000 dollar a year contract. If the coaching staff feels that Giddens isn't a player worth developing because of his limited upside-- for whatever knock there is on him, then he is good as gone.

Giddens was the last pick of the first round or essentially, a 2nd round pick. He's had issues and this might not be the best situation for him. We are trying to develop and win now, but if Miles shows that he is healthy, and it comes down to Miles and Giddens, Giddens is a goner.

You are making it seem like there is no freaking possible way that Giddens could ever be cut and this definitely not the situation here.

[sully00]

To keep Miles he will actually have to be one of the 12 actives while he is suspended.

The inactive list is done prior to each game it isn't that relevant.

In the end I just can't fathom another team trading us something that is going to help us win in exchange for Scalabrine we don't even have a draft pick to package with him, never mind doing it midseason.

I don't really like it but if the equation is Miles' defense over Scal's defense and the 7 mil bucks owed him I would imagine the odds are with Scal.

[canman1971]

Giddens isn't getting cut, so the title is misleading. He is on his rookie contract and they would never have signed him if they had no plans for him. That is not how owners make money. He may end up in the NBDL, but Ainge has shown a preference to keep the guy around as they can monitor them more closely, but short stints, like Pruitt certainly is not out of the question.

Good grief, canman, Giddens was only given a two-year deal for 1.6 millions total. It's not like the team has a lot invested in this guy. If they cut him, he is about as cheap as a cut as you can get in the NBA. From Grousbeck's previous actions, I highly doubt he is going to advocate keeping Giddens over Miles because of his 800,000 dollar a year contract. If the coaching staff feels that Giddens isn't a player worth developing because of his limited upside-- for whatever knock there is on him, then he is good as gone.

Giddens was the last pick of the first round or essentially, a 2nd round pick. He's had issues and this might not be the best situation for him. We are trying to develop and win now, but if Miles shows that he is healthy, and it comes down to Miles and Giddens, Giddens is a goner.

You are making it seem like there is no freaking possible way that Giddens could ever be cut and this definitely not the situation here.

I am going on history and the fact that Ainge isn't going to let a draft pick go to waste without getting a long look at him. Yes, he was the last pick of the first round, but Ainge must have seen something in him that he liked and I don't think he'll let him go. Remember Gonzo, this is all based on opinion. This is what I think. You don't have to agree. They are also into the luxury tax, so technically his salary is double in the owner's eyes.

[GonzoLays]

Giddens isn't getting cut, so the title is misleading. He is on his rookie contract and they would never have signed him if they had no plans for him. That is not how owners make money. He may end up in the NBDL, but Ainge has shown a preference to keep the guy around as they can monitor them more closely, but short stints, like Pruitt certainly is not out of the question.

Good grief, canman, Giddens was only given a two-year deal for 1.6 millions total. It's not like the team has a lot invested in this guy. If they cut him, he is about as cheap as a cut as you can get in the NBA. From Grousbeck's previous actions, I highly doubt he is going to advocate keeping Giddens over Miles because of his 800,000 dollar a year contract. If the coaching staff feels that Giddens isn't a player worth developing because of his limited upside-- for whatever knock there is on him, then he is good as gone.

Giddens was the last pick of the first round or essentially, a 2nd round pick. He's had issues and this might not be the best situation for him. We are trying to develop and win now, but if Miles shows that he is healthy, and it comes down to Miles and Giddens, Giddens is a goner.

You are making it seem like there is no freaking possible way that Giddens could ever be cut and this definitely not the situation here.

I am going on history and the fact that Ainge isn't going to let a draft pick go to waste without getting a long look at him. Yes, he was the last pick of the first round, but Ainge must have seen something in him that he liked and I don't think he'll let him go. Remember Gonzo, this is all based on opinion. This is what I think. You don't have to agree. They are also into the luxury tax, so technically his salary is double in the owner's eyes.

I personally believe the team will try to trade Giddens or waive him if he is indeed the one to go. With a two-year 1.6 million dollar contract, some team who had Giddens high on their board might take that chance alleviating any luxury tax/contract issues.

But then again, it could be Miles who is cut. Who knows. But all I do know is that is not completely out of the realm of possibilities that Giddens will be cut. In my opinion, he is the most likely canidate to be cut/traded. Once again, who knows.

[Fencer reregistered]

Nobody cuts a first-round pick this quickly unless he's a MAJOR character problem or other head-case. I doubt there's a single counter-example to that rule in the past 15 years, and I'd be utterly shocked if there were as many as five counter-examples.