It's time to change the rotation

[return2glory]

I am happy with the 8-1 record, but as of now we aren't playing well enough to repeat. Right now, our team is not very deep. Here are some on the problems I'm seeing in regards to our bench:

1. We have no SF. We need to develope Bill Walker.
2. Our back PG is known for only one thing, his shooting. Well that is bad when House is only shooting 34% from the field and 22% from 3's.
3. Big Baby is not a center but he is playing center. I personally don't like playing Davis and Powe at the same time.
4. Tony Allen is inconsistant. After scoring 23 points against Detroit, he scored only 2 points in his last two games.

We need to start developing our bench players and sit the ones that our struggling. IMO, it's time to sit House and Davis down. I feel that Pruitt and POB need to take over for House and Davis in our rotation. We need to see if Pruitt and POB can help us win games because right now House and Davis aren't getting it done.

And for us to repeat, we would need to bolster our bench. I would love for us to somehow get McDyess

[Jammer]

You make some good points, but rush to judgement on the fixes.

Tony Allen is the best BACKUP SG or SF that the Celtics have.
Giddens and Walker, who are both SG's like Tony who might be able to play some SF,
can't shoot, and shoot much worse than Tony.

In essence, we have 4 SG's on the roster, but only one (Ray), who can actually shoot.
This is actually one of the problems, the lack of shooters at Shooting Guard.
But Tony deserves to be the 6th man, although when he is off,
a 5th guard that can contribute is needed.

Eddie House is the 7th man as Rondo's backup.
Eddie is the only shooter on the bench with legs left (sorry Sam).
Eddie is in a slump, but he will come out of it.
Eddie's track record over 8 seasons is amazingly consistent.

The biggest problem at guard is since Rondo is not a shooter,
and Tony is not a shooter,
if either Ray or Eddie is off,
the team needs another guard who can knock down some shots
off the bench like Cassell did a few times last year.

Whether Doc thinks Gabe Pruitt is that guy matters,
because there have been a few times this season when
another scorer off the bench (10th man Gabe Pruitt)
could have come riding to the rescue.

The problem with Davis is real,
particularly since Perkins is not a scorer
and Leon Powe is undersized.

So, an even bigger problem than the 5th Guard (10th man)

is the 9th man, backup C, Glen Davis.
Glen has a high B-Ball IQ, fast hands, and some bulk to push people around.

Unfortunately, Davis is not a scorer, shooter, or much of an offensive threat,
and it's killing the team with the defensive minded
Rondo, Perk and Tony Allen sucking up major minutes.

But, thankfully, what we say here is painfully obvious to everyone in the Celtic organization.

If you don't think they are trying to figure out a way to get a
true backup center to Perkins, you just don't realize that
that is the number one goal.

They will get someone before the playoffs, the question is will it be
Mutombo, Mourning, McDyess, Joe Smith, Chris Wilcox, Nick Collison? You get the idea.

And believe, they know they either have to have faith in Pruitt as the 10th man,
or go get someone they do trust as the 10th man,
so the bench has another scorer that they can rely upon
to augment the starting and backup guards on their off days.

[return2glory]

Right now the only changes I'm asking for our Pruitt and POB for Davis and House. We need to know what Pruitt and POB can bring. I feel Pruitt is mire ready to contribute than POB right now but I like to see them get minutes with House and Davis being ineffective.

[ParticleMan]

I am happy with the 8-1 record, but as of now we aren't playing well enough to repeat. Right now, our team is not very deep. Here are some on the problems I'm seeing in regards to our bench:

1. We have no SF. We need to develope Bill Walker.
2. Our back PG is known for only one thing, his shooting. Well that is bad when House is only shooting 34% from the field and 22% from 3's.
3. Big Baby is not a center but he is playing center. I personally don't like playing Davis and Powe at the same time.
4. Tony Allen is inconsistant. After scoring 23 points against Detroit, he scored only 2 points in his last two games.

We need to start developing our bench players and sit the ones that our struggling. IMO, it's time to sit House and Davis down. I feel that Pruitt and POB need to take over for House and Davis in our rotation. We need to see if Pruitt and POB can help us win games because right now House and Davis aren't getting it done.

And for us to repeat, we would need to bolster our bench. I would love for us to somehow get McDyess

1. True, but I seriously doubt Bill Walker is the answer. Not this year, at least.

2. This is a GOOD thing. we're 8-1 and our key shooter off the bench is shooting 22% from downtown. i mean, do you seriously think house forgot how to shoot? more likely it's a slow start, and at the end of the year he'll be at 38% as usual.

3. That's true but POB needs to step up and show something. I think Doc is sending him a message, and he either gets it and helps the team by the end of the year, or he is packing his bags. But to throw him out there at half effort is self-defeating, especially early in the season. Also, Powe an BBD haven't been too shabby together, check out 82games. That 2nd unit with Pierce has the best +/- and win % on the team.

4. That's why he's a bench player. The thing about TA is that he is still our best perimeter defender, and a good rebounder and decent passer. So he can help the team even when not scoring.

Dice would be great but it ain't happenin. Whatever. We can still repeat with the team we have now. Of course it could be better, even the 86 celtics could have been better, so what? we're 8-1 with a brutal early schedule and a lot of teams circling this game, and we've beaten back every serious challenge. i'm actually very happy with our start.

[joneb]

I agree that POB and Pruitt should get some minutes. O'Bryant would give us a defensive presence with the second unit. Say what yo will about his overall game, but he's proven that he can block shots on an NBA level. Whereas neither Powe nor Davis have that ability consistently. Maybe he's inconsistent with his intensity, but at least give him a chance to be in the lineup, and if he's getting outworked then take him out in favor of Davis. There are some teams that Davis and Powe probably match up against pretty decently, but O'Bryant's length could be helpful against many teams.

As far as Pruitt is concerned, it's painful sometimes to watch Eddie handling the ball. Eddie's quick release and his confident demeanor are definitely assets. But Gabe is more of a pure point guard than Eddie. Pruitt still gives us the ability to stretch the floor when he's in the lineup, because his shot commands respect. And Gabe is a far superior man-to-man defender than Eddie. Against certain teams they could play together in the backcourt, so it's not strictly an either/or situation.

[humblebum]

I do believe there are some question marks surrounding House and our backup bigs but I don't think they should be overblown either. House will come around and Baby/Powe have been relatively effective throughout the first 9 games. Right now the Celtics just need to be more consistent in their offense and IMO it starts with Rondo settling in and starting to gain confidence back in his shot. Once that happens all of our offensive pieces will fall into place.

[Dave_From_NB]

Personally I`d also like to see Walker, Pruitt and POB get some time, but not at the deliberate expense of losses, and not at the deliberate expense of players who at this point deserve minutes based on their past performance. Injuries will happen, and the rotation will get mixed up as a result.

Mostly my frustration at this point is with the starters, because they seem to be saving the effort for game ending heroics, rather than putting the games away early so that the bench guys can be brought in to bring the game home. The prospects are sitting all game now because the starters don`t have the early killer instinct going.

In games isn`t the only development that goes on with guys. These folks will be getting some serious coaching offline, especially because they`re not getting tired with game time minutes.

[Jammer]

I am happy with the 8-1 record, but as of now we aren't playing well enough to repeat. Right now, our team is not very deep. Here are some on the problems I'm seeing in regards to our bench:

1. We have no SF. We need to develope Bill Walker.
2. Our back PG is known for only one thing, his shooting. Well that is bad when House is only shooting 34% from the field and 22% from 3's.
3. Big Baby is not a center but he is playing center. I personally don't like playing Davis and Powe at the same time.
4. Tony Allen is inconsistant. After scoring 23 points against Detroit, he scored only 2 points in his last two games.

We need to start developing our bench players and sit the ones that our struggling. IMO, it's time to sit House and Davis down. I feel that Pruitt and POB need to take over for House and Davis in our rotation. We need to see if Pruitt and POB can help us win games because right now House and Davis aren't getting it done.

And for us to repeat, we would need to bolster our bench. I would love for us to somehow get McDyess

1. True, but I seriously doubt Bill Walker is the answer. Not this year, at least.

2. This is a GOOD thing. we're 8-1 and our key shooter off the bench is shooting 22% from downtown. i mean, do you seriously think house forgot how to shoot? more likely it's a slow start, and at the end of the year he'll be at 38% as usual.

3. That's true but POB needs to step up and show something. I think Doc is sending him a message, and he either gets it and helps the team by the end of the year, or he is packing his bags. But to throw him out there at half effort is self-defeating, especially early in the season. [b' Also, Powe an BBD haven't been too shabby together, check out 82games. That 2nd unit with Pierce has the best +/- and win % on the team. [/b]



The thing about 82games.com, ParticleMan

is that Tony Allen and Leon Powe are playing phenomenally for bench players;

Eddie House, despite the miserable shooting, is only slightly down from his
NET PER of last year (from like +1 to -2.6) but with miserable shooting this year;

and Pierce is playing with the second unit, and if not Pierce, Ray Allen.

Glen Davis is still the non-contributing black hole,

and the team still needs a 5th guard for when
non-shooters Rondo and Tony are not scoring,
and shooters Ray Ray and House are missing.

Patrick O'Bryant will definately be able to replace Davis someday,
the question is how soon?

Pruitt is another story, unless he plays better,
the team is better off with
House or Tony.

But I here ya return2glory,
you're saying giving POB some floor time and Pruitt some floor time
to at least know how close they are right now.



4. That's why he's a bench player. The thing about TA is that he is still our best perimeter defender, and a good rebounder and decent passer. So he can help the team even when not scoring.

Dice would be great but it ain't happenin. Whatever. We can still repeat with the team we have now. Of course it could be better, even the 86 celtics could have been better, so what? we're 8-1 with a brutal early schedule and a lot of teams circling this game, and we've beaten back every serious challenge. i'm actually very happy with our start.

[Fencer reregistered]

House, despite his age, and Davis still need development too.

If House in a month is still no better than the guy who was benched for Sam Cassell, and Davis is still a statistical peer of Brian Scalabrine, then we can talk about whether they deserve secure rotation spots.

[celticfan42487]

I thought about POB when Davis got hurt yesterday.

Walker is a rookie that's not polished. Nuff' said.

Pruitt didn't show that much consistency in his preseason games, Doc can judge if he is trustworthy enough for minutes during this season. Doubtfull with House's status on this team being more important since we lost Posey and replaced him with TA essentially.

I'd like to see POB work his way into the rotation.

[Bad-Thoma]

Damn, 8-1 and we need some changes?. It's not even like we've had a puff schedule people, we've beat good teams playing back-to-backs, played dominating defense, and generally kicked ass and taken names. If it ain't broke... don't fix it.

[GreenGrizz]

I watched POB playing for Bradley. He was a fast faster. He didn't look like a bench type player to me. Start him. Perk plays better against players who are slowing down later in the game.

[Collinto]

Part of the reason bench players are bench players is because they are either (1) inconsistent or (2) have holes in thier game.

If Tony put up 20 ppg he'd be a starter on a lesser team. His inconsistantcy is what makes him a perfect bech player for this team.

IMHO, as a bench player, if you bring intensity/energy along with defense and occasional offense...that is perfect. So TA, House, Powe and BBD are working...although a McDyess upgrade would be nice.

I'd like to get Pruitt minutes before POB. POB is a fraud, imho. End of the bench material for life. Pruitt I think may make a rotation at some point.

[s1ickd]

Contrary to popular belief (which seems to be baseless and devoid of basketball knowledge) Glen Davis is playing well the past few games. He's defending his man effectively, boxing out on the glass, hitting a mid range jumper with consistency, and getting to the free throw line.

I agree that TA is playing inconsistently. Problem is, he's very sensitive to how confident he is, so sitting him this early on would be counter-productive.

I've been saying for a while now that Gabe Pruitt is a better all around player than Eddie House, and fits more of a need for us. He shoots nearly as well, yet handles the ball, defends, and finishes better.

[rambo_ortega]

i agree on trying to get pruitt and POB in the mix. we can still insert house and big baby in some stretches like how he was used in the playoffs. our lack of length makes it hard for us to defend athletic teams like atlanta. maybe we can trade davis for an athletic,long sf.

if we will make a move, let's do it now while our main guys can still sustain it. that way, we can establish a better core going into the playoffs for the repeat.

[kakopedi1]

Tony Allen is the guy I worry about the most. He seems to do well against weaker teams or blowouts but when the game is tight he plays like he's lost his confidence(like that horribe scoop shot he attempted vs. the Hawks).

It wouldnt surprise me if TAllen gets traded b4 the deadline for a small forward.

[TheSheriff]

Personally i would like to see Pruitt and Walker get some playing time.

Walker could add some nice offense to that second unit.

Pruitt is a better defender than House and has more range than rondo. Somebody said Pruitt needs to be more consistent, but really he has not had a chance to prove anything. Eddie House is really a undersized 2, so Pruitt is the only real backup point guard on the team. If he got some playing time that might solve some of the problems of the second unit.

[campybatman]

Pruitt needs to be developed because House can opt out after this season. Neither Powe or Davis are centers but they're "centers" for the Celtics. Walker will see the court only if there's a sudden rash of injuries. Tony Allen is inconsistent but it's encouraging that he appears to be gaining more and more confidence in his leg. He's trusting his athleticism and abilities again. And O'Bryant seriously needs to find himself. Look at Scalabrine and learn to appreciate your opportunity on this team. Scalabrine isn't playing but probably would get the call in a pinch over you.

Of the bench players, the one you need to contribute consistently is Tony. Because he helps Rivers to keep Ray's minutes in the low thirties. Then it's Powe. Because Perkins will always be a foul prone big man. O'Bryant is seriously screwing himself, Ainge and this team for believing in him. There wouldn't be as much emphasis on adding a key veteran at this point in the season if not for his inability to convince the coaching staff that he deserves to be a part of the regular rotation.

[GuyClinch]

I think the only way you see some of these changes if is we have injuries to be frank. You might as well forget about it. Those guys exist only for depth reasons. Doc is not going to boot out TA or House out of the rotation. And a rotation that's to larger doesn't give a fair shot to player to "get going."

We are 8-1 and Doc's rotation has been pretty good thus far.

[Matt34520]

I remember tons of people looked at me in the eyes with a smug wise ass look and said

you ain't got no bench
you ain't got no point guard
you got three gunners and one ball
the big three is going to get tired
you ain't got no coach
wait till they play the west
well till they play detroit...
etc.

and you know what it all meant in the end? nothing.

Tony Allen, Leon Powe and Eddie should be able to fill in for Posey. I'd love to add one more quality player too, but if we don't, I believe we can still repeat.