Our Bench Needs Help

[return2glory]

Our bench is very weak right now. Tony Allen has lost all kinds of confidence. He has scored like 4 points in the last 4 games. Big Baby all of the sudden thinks he can shoot from 20 feet. He is shooting 31% from the field. House is in a huge shooting slump, shooting 25% on his 3-pt shots. Leon is the only one playing decent.

What's worst is POB, JR, Walker, Pruitt lack experience and Scal is Scal. Danny Ainge stated without James Posey that we would not have won a championship but still let him go. As of right now, this team is no where near the team of last year. We desperately need to somehow sign Antonio McDyess or else the hopes of repeating is slim.
Your thoughts.

[bceltic55]

Agreed, the bench is not strong right now. Danny is not the type to make panic moves, he is patient. McDyess would be great, but I am not confident of that happening. Doc is trying to find his bench by playing TA, House and Davis, if they do not perform he will switch to Pruitt, Walker and POB. A trade or free agent signing is also a possibility.

[Jammer]

Shooters (4 Active): Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Eddie House, Sam Cassell

Out of 12 active roster players, only 4 can shoot. (sorry Scal)
Also, out of four shooting guards (Giddens, Walker, Tony & Ray Allen),
only Ray Allen can shoot.

Post Players (3): Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Leon Powe
Although the team has 3 post players,
Leon Powe averages 2 points per shot @ 56%,
Paul Pierce averages 1.42 points per shot @ 41%,
and Kevin Garnett averages 1.08 points per shot @ 48%.

Heck, even Ray Allen averages 1.35 points per shot.

Garnett has to set up and score in the low post more, to get that shooting average up,
since he's having his worst year shooting 20 footers,
which will then get Garnett to the free throw line more often.

Glen Davis FG% of 0.325 doesn't help with the amount of time he gets,
Davis averages LESS THAN 1 point per shot.

Slashers (5 Active): Pierce, Ray, Rajon, Tony, Bill, Giddens

So, out of 8 guards on the roster (Rajon, Eddie, Gabe, Sam, Ray, Tony, Bill, J.R.),
only 2 can shoot that are active (Ray & Eddie, plus Sammy on the sidelines).

And of those 2 shooters, Eddie House is in the worst shooting slump of his career.

Plus, the team plays a 6' 7.75 inch guy at center with short arms,
who can't jump,
and has a field goal % of 0.325.

Garnett has to increase his FG% and get to the free throw line
more by going down low.

The problem ain't named Paul, Ray, Rajon, Kendrick, KG, Tony, Eddie or Leon;
who are probably "Core Players" and unavailable to other teams.

The team needs someone else to be able to call in from the bench who can actually
contribute for the minutes that they suck up.
Specifically a BACKUP CENTER and a BENCH SCORER (either a 1, 2 or 3).

Doc Rivers is doing the best that he can,
but you have to wonder about the attachment
this RealGM Board has to the bottom half of the 15 man roster
(Davis, Scal, Pruitt, Walker, POB, Giddens).

I did like the way Scal played last night,
Scal showed he knows the plays on offense and defense,
how to space himself and when to move to create flow,
plus he charges hard when he has to blitz a screen,
and isn't afraid to bang or get in someone's face.
I hope POB was taking notes.

[Celtsfan1980]

Powe has had 6 FGA over 3 games. They have to get him involved in the offense far more than they have.

[ryaningf]

The bench has had two bad games in the past week, but they played well last night and actually got the 10 point lead the C's had for most of the night during their 2nd quarter stint. It's way to early, especially after only 2 subpar games out of 10, to say the bench needs help. Some guys need to fine tune their roles, maybe certain guys like Gabe Pruitt need some run, but overall the bench has been fine. Don't let the last week skew the entire season's worth of data.

Personally, to me, the 2nd unit's problems stem from Eddie House's inability to run an offense. He's a much better gunner than point guard. Doc needs to play Pruitt with House and just let House shot and let Pruitt run the point and play good defense. When House is out there himself, he just guns and the rest of the offense just stands around. Powe and Tony need more opportunities, but often they're just watching House chuck off the dribble. Eddie's a great spot-up shooter, but off-the-dribble? Not so much. Pruitt will be able to get him better shots, and help Powe and Tony get more shots. It's a no-brainer. Come on Doc.

[7seventynine9]

or get Marbury to be the backup PG.

He would be a perfect fit for the team if he'd accept a bench role.

[billfromBoston]

I don't think the bench needs help as much as it needs to find its identity and rhythm...

To me, the lack of experience as a unit is what's hurting them the most. Tony Allen should be the principle ball-handler unless Paul or Ray is out with that unit - if either of those two is out there, both should be relegated to kick-out/3rd option status so they can essentially "rest" during those minutes - they do enough heavy lifting during the bulk of their minutes, those stints should be about TA and Powe primarily...

Secondly, TA needs to be the featured offensive player and playing strong side with Powe along with House, with Pierce and Davis off on opposite side. TA should run P&R or give Powe the ball in the post, then cycle through to the other side leaving Powe on strong side with House....

Third - GET THE BALL TO LEON POWE - the guy is by far the best post scorer on this team and gets to the line better than anyone - he is too quick for most PFs to defend on those baseline faceup moves to the hoop and he is simply not getting enough touches to do his thing - after Doc mentioned getting him the rock, I thought the team would actually do it, but right now, he is seeing LESS touches than he was the first 3-4 games and that is hurting this unit...

I think Doc likes to let his players figure things out for themselves with minimal suggestion, so when their way isn't effective, his suggestion is more substantial in weight....I believe Doc is working toward this type of balance with the 2nd unit offensively, but it takes two things:

1. Bench players have to be more assertive and stop being overly-deferential to Pierce/Ray
2. They have to make a concerted effort to get the ball inside and stop working the whole offense for perimter shots, which is about all the 2nd unit tries to create right now - partially because of reason 1...

[MVP16]

I agree bfB. We have to get TA and Powe more involved offensively. I think the big 3 are dominating the ball way too much on offense right now. In the last few games, TA has rarely touched the ball and mostly stands in the corner and watches. That's not his game, it's Posey's. We have to have more of an effort for him to have the ball in his hands and driving to the basket. Powe has seen his touches reduced as well. When the 2nd unit is out there, most of the shots are taken by whoever of Ray/Pierce is on and House. For players like TA, if you call a few plays for him and he gets into a rhythm, he also picks it up on the defensive end and feels more confident about taking jumpers. Powe has taken just 7 shots in the last 4 games, TA has taken 11. TA/Powe can give us a big offensive spark off the bench, but we are not utilizing them right now.

Having said that, the bench players also need to pick it up in other areas. Powe needs to do a better job on the boards. He is averaging .7 less rebounds in 2.2 more minutes of play then last year. Powe needs to think of himself as a rebounder first and scorer 2nd, not the other way around. And TA can't let the offense effect his defense. If he is not getting touches on offense, he has to still be a ballhawk and get some steals. In the last 3 games he hasn't gotten a steal and only got 1 rebound. If his offense isn't there, he still has to focus on contributing in other areas.

[ParticleMan]

i think r2g needs to get a clue. we lost a bench player. a BENCH player. and suddenly we have little shot of repeating? because we lost a bench player with the worst PER of any of our regulars? Please.

i'm not saying i wouldn't love to get Dice. He's be awesome. i'm sure ainge is working on it. i'd love to get lebron or duncan too. it ain't happenin. we can always be better. but right now, with the team we have, i am absolutely CONVINCED we have a BETTER chance at a title than we did last year. and it has nothing to do with our 7th or 8th man either. it's simply that we're a lot more comfortable playing with each other. you can see that the team is able to turn it on at will and play at a higher level than anyone. but then they lose focus, because let's face it early in the regular season. when the playoffs roll around they will have focus. the main thing is to avoid injury and fatigue, and if we can secure HCA that'd be great but we are a good enough road team that i don't worry about it all that much.

[return2glory]

I feel that Davis and Powe playing togehter does not help us at all. We lack the lenght, shot blocking presence and rebounding with these two on the floor together.

Davis is more effective when surrounded by better players and when we don't need to rely on him for scoring. I feel that Powe is playing better that Davis. Davis needs to sit and Powe needs to play with either POB, Perk, or KG.

Bill Walker needs to join Giddens in the NBDL for some playing time. It's obvious Doc isn't going to play him any time soon.

[Dave_From_NB]

The Bench has been consistently out-rebounded, and the last 2 games it seems to have gotten even worse. For the season, the Celtics bench has been outrebounded 10 out of 11 games, and are overall losing the bench rebounding battle 174 to 107.

I cringe as I watch each substitution with our team getting smaller and smaller until we hit the lineup of House, TA, RA, Powe, Davis. I can't imagine there is a smaller regular rotation in the league.

I don't know about the rest of you, but the bench hit a low with me against Atlanta, it looked like a bunch of short Rec Leaguers playing the varsity squad. Giving Atlanta 2'nd and 3'rd opportunities, Powe and Davis making no impact offensively because they were playing among the trees and couldn't find any daylight..

This Pipsqueek Ball isn't doing us any good, and if POB, Walker and Pruitt aren't going to get into the lineup to give us some size and boards, then I think Ainge is going to need to address it by bringing some guys in. I think the book is pretty much out on Powe and Davis in particular, and although Powe still has some offensive pop, I think that pair is going to be less effective as more of the book gets written.

[GreenGrizz]

Remember 1987. Ainge was there.

[Havlicek17]

I don't believe Leon's game will become less effective as other teams "have the book" on him so to speak. Leon does, what Leon does. Always has. He did it in college (led the Pac-10 in scoring and rebounding), he has been doing it since reaching the pro's. Good footwork, strong to the basket, gets his shots, gets fouled a bunch. He'll get better as he gains experience, not worse.

I think what has been happening is the other teams are clever enough to know (watch any of our tapes, read Doc's comments about going to Powe more) that we are going to go to Powe. What we are witnessing are other teams adjusting to Powe being our primary weapon on the second unit. Leon is getting a fast double team, therefore less shots. A few nights ago, Denver left Nene on Powe while their second unit was out there.

TA or someone else needs to step up and give Leon some working room. Seriously, if TA starts scoring or another wing player starts scoring, it will open it up for Leon to do what Leon does. Score, get fouled, take the charge, rebound, etc.

[ParticleMan]

our bench this year is so far better than 1987 it's not funny.
not to mention we don't have our top two players with a bad back and a bad ankle.

our size on the bench is a definite concern. our bench has still been pretty good despite the rebounding problems. i'm hoping POB can actually see a proctologist and find his head sometime this season. otherwise i'm guessing we will bring in someone in a trade, though i'd hate to give up any of our young kids for some nearly washed up vet.

[FreshTilapia]

i think r2g needs to get a clue. we lost a bench player. a BENCH player. and suddenly we have little shot of repeating? because we lost a bench player with the worst PER of any of our regulars? Please.

i'm not saying i wouldn't love to get Dice. He's be awesome. i'm sure ainge is working on it. i'd love to get lebron or duncan too. it ain't happenin. we can always be better. but right now, with the team we have, i am absolutely CONVINCED we have a BETTER chance at a title than we did last year. and it has nothing to do with our 7th or 8th man either. it's simply that we're a lot more comfortable playing with each other. you can see that the team is able to turn it on at will and play at a higher level than anyone. but then they lose focus, because let's face it early in the regular season. when the playoffs roll around they will have focus. the main thing is to avoid injury and fatigue, and if we can secure HCA that'd be great but we are a good enough road team that i don't worry about it all that much.

As a Pistons fan, I have to say this sounds extremely familiar to the things we were saying for the past couple of years. In any case, I think you guys are fine, I think everyone knew that after how hungry you were last year, that it would be near impossible to replicate the drive and intensity in game 8 or 9 of the regular season this year.

[return2glory]

i think r2g needs to get a clue. we lost a bench player. a BENCH player. and suddenly we have little shot of repeating? because we lost a bench player with the worst PER of any of our regulars? Please. .

A bench player who helped us win the championship. A bench player who was a key part of leading us to the greatest comeback in finals history with 18 key points. A bench player who made clutch shots. A bench player who played tough and dirty.

I believe it was game one of the Finals, it could have been game 2. Kobe drove past Posey, straight to the basket. Posey fouled Kobe, but Kobe kept going to the basket for a possible 3 point play. Posey stayed with Kobe after the blown whistle. Posey then stuck Kobe with an elbow in the chest. After that play, Posey set the tone and put fear in Kobe's mind. Kobe became hesitant from that point.

It was this bench player that Ainge stated that without him, we would not have won a championship. And I'm the one that needs to get a clue.

[Al-Haqq]

We need offense from our bench. Marbury brings offense and can be a starter if needed. I hope the Celtics get him.

[AlCelticFan]

Water is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY under the bridge. Posey is gone.

What is the next move? Do you think Ainge has his sights set on some players? Who could help our bench?

[Al-Haqq]

Water is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY under the bridge. Posey is gone.

What is the next move? Do you think Ainge has his sights set on some players? Who could help our bench?

I seriously hope he does ... but before any moves happen, I would like to see Doc give POB and/or Bill a go.

[Bruiser]

I don´t think the problem lies in the bench. Our bench seems to be weak because some of our starting players are playing below the expectations.

Perk is almost -2 pts, Rajon -3.5 pts, KG -2.5 pts and there´s an obvious drop in terms of efficiency. Only Paul and Ray are on the target.

This year we depend on the bench players to score more and it´s crystal clear they are not scoring burst players. As long as our starting unit improves, our bench will be able to contribute to the victory.